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This will be an unpopular view but...
- Thread starter Matt L
- Start date
Big picture is model 3 is best selling luxury car yet Tesla lowers prices and continues to improve it. Unless another manufacturer comes out with better and proven battery technology, I'll be buying another Tesla in the future.
This is coming from someone who bought 3D last October which was 3-4k higher then what it is now not counting tax credit (and SCE credit now at 1k).
This is coming from someone who bought 3D last October which was 3-4k higher then what it is now not counting tax credit (and SCE credit now at 1k).
Dmagyar
Member
We’ve all purchased computers as other consumer electronics, as soon as they come off the assembly line, someone else is making a similar device for less, that does more faster and with more accoutrements than what you first purchased (example flat screen TV’s). That Tesla is doing something similar is just that, their decision based on staying alive, selling more cars and the ever present demand for cash flow. We also loose sight of the reverse engineering reports that have been done by their competitors, that impacts what Tesla is doing. I’d love to see a bunch of other electric cars on the roads, but not if Tesla folds because they weren’t smart enough to stay alive...
As a company they’ve taken the risks, and all marketing choices are theirs. I wasn’t too happy that the fob was $150, but got over it, any new drivers supporting Tesla, by purchasing is good for all of us...
As a company they’ve taken the risks, and all marketing choices are theirs. I wasn’t too happy that the fob was $150, but got over it, any new drivers supporting Tesla, by purchasing is good for all of us...
Krugerrand
Meow
Dmagyar
Member
You seemingly caught your cat deep in some mischievous plot...
Krugerrand
Meow
Plotting short seller/analyst/WS revenge. Disappointed he’s taking so long to come up with a more viable than pushing them all off a cliff.
CameronB
Member
Agree as well. I am not sure why (some) people who buy Teslas feel so much more entitled than purchasers of Fords, Hondas, BMWs, etc.
As you say, because those cars are all purchased through dealers, everybody pays wildly different prices. When I bought my last BMW, I pitted eight (8) dealers against each other to get the best price. When one would be lower than the rest, I'd tell the next lowest that if they wanted my business, they'd need to do better. Some dealers didn't even want to haggle - they just said take it or leave it. Obviously, others haggled and we went back and forth. The difference between what the highest dealer wanted and what I paid for the car eventually was $9K different! People that just go to one or two dealers would likely not get the deal I did by putting in a lot of legwork and many phone calls and emails.
And when GMC announces during black Friday commercials on TV that the Denali is $3K cheaper or Nissan announces $7500 cash back on purchase of a Titan pickup...does anyone believe that GMC or Nissan owners who drove their cars off the lot the week before those sales went into effect would receive any refund or 'make good'? Rhetorical question since we likely know the answer.
I bought the last of the software locked 60Ds before they were discontinued. Shortly thereafter, the 75Ds were selling for just a little bit more but now came with not only more useable battery, but also included options that I paid for like Premium Interior and All-Glass Roof. So the car I had just bought was, in net, more expensive AND less capable than what I could have got the following month. So I am in the same boat in that I could argue I, too, was "screwed".
But...the fact is that there was a car with certain options available at a certain time and I bought it. As long as I got everything I ordered, then I believe I am not entitled to neither a refund nor any particular "make right". Nobody made me buy my car. I could have waited. Perhaps should have waited. But I didn't, so it is what it is.
In fact...I have gotten more than I paid for. When I bought the car, it couldn't do perpendicular self parking. Later with an update, it could. The car I bought did 0-60 in 5.0 seconds (which was in itself faster than the 5.2 it was advertised as). I was told I could software unlock the remaining 15kWh of battery for (I believe) $5000. I actually unlocked it for $2 or $2.5K (I don't remember which), about half the price as I was quoted. And once I did, I was able to "uncork" the car and it now has gained almost 100 horsepower and now goes 0-6 in 3.9 seconds.
All of the above were things that I was not promised, but I got. So not only did Tesla give me what I paid for in a car, they gave me more.
In my opinion, the only people who can complain are people who bought EAP and/or FSD and were mislead by wildly optimistic claims of when those features would be available. People who leased cars for 3 years in 2016 and bought FSD and now are turning them in, having not been able to use any FSD features...those people should have legit refund. EAP wise, we had partial functionality for part of our ownership time, so it seems we should get something. Oh, wait, we did. Thanks to a class action lawsuit, owners who bought EAP were offered a partial refund. This money ultimately came from Tesla as part of the settlement. You didn't have to accept it, but it was available.
Tesla has done more refunds, credits and various "make good" gestures than any other car manufacturer has or would do. But the level of entitlement amongst some owners is quite staggering IMO.
MJB-CO
Member
Agree completely - A M3 is a computer on wheels. So, as with all tech products you get more for less as time goes on.
Where Tesla goes beyond most tech companies is in the continuing free upgrades, both OTA software and the AutoPilot Hardware 3 for FSD purchasers (I've never been offered a free upgraded CPU for a computer or cell phone).
So, no regrets being an early reservation holder and ordering my AWD M3 with FSD in June - delivered in September. It's by far the best car I've owned
I don't understand how you came up with 11k. Even with $1K post order price for AP/EAP it would have totaled $10K not $11K. In addition, if you bought your Model 3 in the past - have you looked at your Tesla account? AP/FSD upgrade prices were lowered for owners that ordered the cars before the price cuts.
I could have bought Autopilot for $5,000 at time of order, $6,000 in the future. Full Self Driving was $3,000 at time of order, $4,000 in the future. Right now in my account it shows a price of $2,000 for Autopilot and Full Self Driving for $3,000. This was a discount of 50% on the post-order price as a courtesy to past purchasers due to the price cuts. Even with the price cuts if I order AP/FSD I am paying $1,250 less than new buyers - and even less if you consider delivery charges.:
I don't understand how you came up with 11k. Even with $1K post order price for AP/EAP it would have totaled $10K not $11K. In addition, if you bought your Model 3 in the past - have you looked at your Tesla account? AP/FSD upgrade prices were lowered for owners that ordered the cars before the price cuts.
I could have bought Autopilot for $5,000 at time of order, $6,000 in the future. Full Self Driving was $3,000 at time of order, $4,000 in the future. Right now in my account it shows a price of $2,000 for Autopilot and Full Self Driving for $3,000. This was a discount of 50% on the post-order price as a courtesy to past purchasers due to the price cuts. Even with the price cuts if I order AP/FSD I am paying $1,250 less than new buyers - and even less if you consider delivery charges.:
[/QUOTE]
$1,450 less - not $1,250 less - adjusted for lower doc fee
We all knew Tesla promised to sell M3 for 35K and still we all bought it for 58K to 63K depending on the option. And Tesla is going to make car for 35K with no fancy seats and 17 speakers and the company has to survive, No regrets in paying hugh amount and I love y car and all the technological features it provides. No TV advertisement and people who are buying are like people who buy iphones as they are like fans and buying technology not the product
Maybe that is the mission, and only payback as less zealots by into the brand. Wish those that complain about what other people pay for their car will go buy a Leaf or Smart car though. I say, love your car or divorce her.
Dmagyar
Member
Said this before, still relevant, we all buy electronics that are upstaged six months+ later with something less expensive and or has more features. As long as what you bought does what was promised, we all got what we bargained for, that someone may get a better deal is worrying over spilt milk...
FlyinDelorean
Member
Its a car. Its not going to increase in value unless you flatbed the thing from the shop you pick it up at, never drive it, put it in cold storage for 50 years, and hope it was one of the first 100 ever made. And 75% of the time that doesn't even matter. Unless you're a collector, this shouldn't matter to you. Even if you are, you know its almost always a depreciating asset. When you bought the car, you saw all of this of the prices on paper, including the sub-total. Consciously, you had to know, that as soon as you drove the car off the lot, there was going to be depreciation. Very few cars in the history of the auto industry increase in value. And that is even if you actually never drive them. Most of these are vintage collectibles. Thats all. Even if you were a car collector, and thought, one day... when I'm dead... or 110 years old... this Model 3 I bought will be worth so much more.. you would then not even care about the recent price changes because thats short-term depreciation.
Overall, it really is a bunch of people bitching about a couple thousand dollars price differential. A car is not an investment. Companies can change their prices to whatever they want. Tesla could sell someone a 3 or X or Y or Roadster for $1 if they wanted to do. They could give one away for free. They can change the price to $1 MILLION dollars or $1. There is literally nothing you can do about it. Figure this out and all your problems go away.
Overall, it really is a bunch of people bitching about a couple thousand dollars price differential. A car is not an investment. Companies can change their prices to whatever they want. Tesla could sell someone a 3 or X or Y or Roadster for $1 if they wanted to do. They could give one away for free. They can change the price to $1 MILLION dollars or $1. There is literally nothing you can do about it. Figure this out and all your problems go away.
Some of us are still waiting to get a single feature from the FSD option we bought. So it is painful to see the price of that option go down when we haven’t gotten to enjoy it at all.
SunCharged
Member
This very well may be true. I think the point others are making is that they don’t want any extra help with the depreciation especially when it comes to features it yet released but yet paid for. Then you get into the tax credit debate..... is it intended for consumers or for Tesla? Are they dropping prices of the cars as the tax credits phase out? If so that would suggest that they could’ve sold the cars all along at the new rates but inflated the price to pocket tax credit. Again, is this right or wrong? That is certainly a debate!
FlyinDelorean
Member
Well that is true, but I think what you are actually alluding to is what is called the stakeholder theory of corporate governance. Where your money is going after you part ways with it and receive the final product, however, is of little consequence to you unless you are thoroughly vested in the success or failure of the company. Most people are vested, to some extent, for replacement parts, warranties, etc. But to actually have a vested interest in the company requires that you at least own 1 share of stock in the company or hold business interests outside the realm of "I'm upset because other people are getting options or my trim at a cheaper cost". If you were told by Tesla that autopilot and full self-driving would increase in price if you didn't buy the option up front, that was true. Until prices changed. And in a free market, prices are always subject to change. I don't think this is an issue of corporate greed per se. The company has a lot going on. Their profit margin needs to be about 30% to be wholly competitive when its really about 18-19%. They have been posting quarterly profits and increasing revenue year over year, but that doesn't make the company profitable. The ability to mass produce an electric car at an affordable entry point for most consumers does. This was the stated objective of the Model 3 from the beginning - to sell a electric car for 35,000. When it comes down to brass tax, the company actually achieved this, and lowered prices for the heftier models and options as well. We cannot go back in time and say, "WELL I SHOULD HAVE PAID FOR WHAT IT COSTS... TODAY!" Also, the FSD seems to me to be overblown. They are going to put you in early access program on software updates or give you priority updates. So? They don't even HAVE to do that if they don't want to. You paid for FUTURE full self driving at THAT price. Now if they said it would cost more, those are forward looking statements. But the reality is that IT DID COST MORE! And now it doesn't.
That is just the nature of business. They even got rid of ENHANCED AUTO PILOT, changed it to AUTO PILOT, removed SUMMON, AUTO LANE CHANGE, AUTO PARK, AND NAVIGATE ON AUTOPILOT to FSD. And STILL LOWERED THE PRICE OF FSD! They want people to buy FSD because by the end of the year it will be able to recognize stop signs and red lights. There will be an advanced summon feature. Automatic driving on city streets. Computer hardware upgrade making it 500-600% faster. If they change the value of a product or service, I don't know what to tell you, other than.. it happens. I don't think its a greed thing - I think its legitimately what Elon Musk originally eluded to and that is.. they took down FSD for awhile because it was confusing as hell. With enhanced auto pilot nobody really knew what FSD meant. This has been a particular challenge because people are fairly confident that Level 5 autonomous driving is not possible with the existing sensors and cameras. HOWEVER, people have underestimated this company before. So we shall see. However, I'm not going to go bitch to Tesla to get a thousand dollars back on a car option I bought 7 months ago. If someone wants to do that, I guess they can try... but guess what. If you go to the Model 3 configurator right now and plug in FSD and Autopilot.. its the same $8,000 just reversed. Instead of $3K for FSD its $5K. Instead of $5K for Autopilot its $3K.
What other car company is even offering OVER THE AIR UPDATES or this level of support??? NONE! So I think this is way overblown and if people want to take Tesla to court over $1 or $2 GRAND go right ahead, I think you would be laughed out of the courtroom for wasting everyones time and resources.
I don't think I am going out on a limb here when I do state... that people are being QUITE RIDICULOUS about this issue.
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Dmagyar
Member
On the other hand, a $350 fob probably unlocks and locks without pressing buttons like we are back in 2002.
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