This will stir things up if approved - California's Proposal to Ban New Gas Vehicles

From today's news here in California:
California’s clean-air regulators Wednesday unveiled a far-reaching proposal requiring a ramp-up in sales of zero-emission cars, culminating in a ban on new gasoline-powered cars by 2035.

If adopted by the California Air Resources Board this summer, the regulations will be the first of their kind in the world and could pave the way for nationwide standards. At least 15 other states pledged to follow California’s lead on car standards on previous clean-car rules, and the federal government usually follows.

California Unveils Proposal To Ban New Gasoline-Fueled Cars

If adopted, the rules would be the first of their kind in the world, prohibiting new gasoline or diesel cars by 2035.

laist.com

("Charging a Tesla car.JPG" by Jeffrey Beall is licensed under CC BY 4.0.)

 

[Zorg]

You are assuming two things. First, climate change is anthropomorphic. Second, we can do anything about it. The ChiComs commission a new coal fired plant every week, so how are you going to enforce a climate policy on them, or India for that matter. Three Mile Island happened when I was a kid, and Greenies have adamantly opposed CO2 free nuclear power ever since, which totally destroys the Greenie credibility. Totally. If CO2 is an issue, nuclear is our immediate emergency solution.

You're assuming, I'm not. Climate change is man made and scientists smarter than you and I have figured it out. I don't get the politics of it since it affects every one from deep red to deep green (and every color of the rainbow in between).
I got nothing against nuclear plants though we still don't have a plan to store spent decaying uranium, and currently known uranium reserves are pretty limited.

 

[IronHamster]

You're assuming, I'm not. Climate change is man made and scientists smarter than you and I have figured it out. I don't get the politics of it since it affects every one from deep red to deep green (and every color of the rainbow in between).
I got nothing against nuclear plants though we still don't have a plan to store spent decaying uranium, and currently known uranium reserves are pretty limited.

One assumption folks make is that we know. We may have evidence, but there are plenty of concensi that get stale. Climate change may be the result of changing magnetic poles, which seems to be causing increased havoc.

If this was normal, I would expect someone to prepare for it. SpaceX loses 40 satellites to geomagnetic storm a day after launch

 

[Zorg]

One assumption folks make is that we know. We may have evidence, but there are plenty of concensi that get stale. Climate change may be the result of changing magnetic poles, which seems to be causing increased havoc.

If this was normal, I would expect someone to prepare for it. SpaceX loses 40 satellites to geomagnetic storm a day after launch

And how would a changing magnetic pole warm up the planet, instead of say increased CO2 emissions creating a green house?

NASA seems to think it doesn't matter: Flip Flop: Why Variations in Earth's Magnetic Field Aren't Causing Today's Climate Change – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet.

 

[IronHamster]

And how would a changing magnetic pole warm up the planet, instead of say increased CO2 emissions creating a green house?

NASA seems to think it doesn't matter: Flip Flop: Why Variations in Earth's Magnetic Field Aren't Causing Today's Climate Change – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet.

Fair enough, although I haven't trusted NASA in over a decade. This remains unanswered, though. How are you going to make China and India cut emissions?

 

[dipper]

Fair enough, although I haven't trusted NASA in over a decade. This remains unanswered, though. How are you going to make China and India cut emissions?

Sanction them?

 

[israndy]

Fair enough, although I haven't trusted NASA in over a decade. This remains unanswered, though. How are you going to make China and India cut emissions?

We aren't, perhaps we could just perfect the Boring Companies products on this planet in preparation for use in constructing living habitats on Mars. Then people on both planets would be protected from its atmosphere.

Or better yet, box up all the carbon and ship it to Mars to help bootstrap THEIR global warming

 

[Zorg]

Fair enough, although I haven't trusted NASA in over a decade. This remains unanswered, though. How are you going to make China and India cut emissions?

That's a completely fair question to which no one has a real answer. The best thing we can do is do our part and lead by example. China and India have the same problem we do. We all live on the same planet. Seems that China has tackled the EV part harder than we have. From memory, GHG come mainly from transportation, power generation and industrial production. Seems to me that the first country to transition to a low CO2 economy will reap benefits for decades thereafter.

 

[IronHamster]

Breeder reactors and reprocessing to cut down on the amount of junk you have to store.

You know there's a lot of room between where we are currently and $20 a gallon right? Getting from here to there doesn't have to be a step function.

We can't wait another fifty years for the Thorium solution IF the problem is now. This is exactly how the environmental movement discredits itself.


You miss the point. The Russians and the ChiComs and the Indians aren't affected by taxes in the US. The world is awash with fossil fuels. How will you charge them $400 a barrel when they can drill their own for $40?

 

[IronHamster]

That's a completely fair question to which no one has a real answer. The best thing we can do is do our part and lead by example. China and India have the same problem we do. We all live on the same planet. Seems that China has tackled the EV part harder than we have. From memory, GHG come mainly from transportation, power generation and industrial production. Seems to me that the first country to transition to a low CO2 economy will reap benefits for decades thereafter.

I am hopeful for the future, but I don't have much hope that third world powers will invest in a global climate issue when they don't even take care of their local pollution. If it's not voluntary, it ain't gonna happen, will it?

 

[STS-134]

We can't wait another fifty years for the Thorium solution IF the problem is now. This is exactly how the environmental movement discredits itself.

Huh? Uranium-based breeder reactors exist RIGHT NOW. U-238 is a fertile material and can be turned into fissile material by bombarding it with fast neutrons.

You miss the point. The Russians and the ChiComs and the Indians aren't affected by taxes in the US. The world is awash with fossil fuels. How will you charge them $400 a barrel when they can drill their own for $40?

Most of those economies are export-driven. Stop buying stuff from them if they don't meet their carbon reduction targets.

 

[ohmman]

Moderator Note: The topic title is "California's Proposal to Ban New Gas Vehicles."

We have a thread on Nuclear power.
We have a thread on Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion.
Heck, we even have a thread for Climate Change Denial.

If you want to discuss those topics, you can go there. If you want to discuss California's proposal to ban new ICE vehicles, this is a great place for it.

 

[petit_bateau]

Fair enough, although I haven't trusted NASA in over a decade. This remains unanswered, though. How are you going to make China and India cut emissions?

CBAM
Carbon border adjustment mechanism

The EU is planning one. So the USA must either do one, or get taxed by the EU. Ditto for China and India.

Heck, if it weren't for Federal law Califirnia could do one ... including on cars etc crossing the borders from outside state.

 

[Graham J]

Moderator Note: The topic title is "California's Proposal to Ban New Gas Vehicles."

Maybe you should buy Twitter; you actually have experience with this sort of thing

 

[IronHamster]

CBAM
Carbon border adjustment mechanism

The EU is planning one. So the USA must either do one, or get taxed by the EU. Ditto for China and India.

Heck, if it weren't for Federal law Califirnia could do one ... including on cars etc crossing the borders from outside state.

We in the US and the EU are already boycotting Russian oil. China is maintaining their partnerships with Russia. India is maintaining their partnerships with Russia. Even NATO member Turkey is still buying Russian fuel and probably more. That's a pretty populous block of countries that don't appear to be complying already. What more can we possibly cut off without accelerating the bear market and impending recession?

 

[israndy]

China and India don't have pipelines to where the Russian fuel is, so those will have to be built and it was a huge deal when the ones for the EU were finished. If the EU stops buying than any Chinese or Indian purchase will have to be delivered via truck/ship which is WAY slower

 

[CS@Tshields]

From today's news here in California:
California’s clean-air regulators Wednesday unveiled a far-reaching proposal requiring a ramp-up in sales of zero-emission cars, culminating in a ban on new gasoline-powered cars by 2035.

If adopted by the California Air Resources Board this summer, the regulations will be the first of their kind in the world and could pave the way for nationwide standards. At least 15 other states pledged to follow California’s lead on car standards on previous clean-car rules, and the federal government usually follows.

California Unveils Proposal To Ban New Gasoline-Fueled Cars

If adopted, the rules would be the first of their kind in the world, prohibiting new gasoline or diesel cars by 2035.

laist.com

View attachment 794029

("Charging a Tesla car.JPG" by Jeffrey Beall is licensed under CC BY 4.0.)

Enjoyed reading your article! Cheers!!

 

[MontyFloyd]

From today's news here in California:
California’s clean-air regulators Wednesday unveiled a far-reaching proposal requiring a ramp-up in sales of zero-emission cars, culminating in a ban on new gasoline-powered cars by 2035.

If adopted by the California Air Resources Board this summer, the regulations will be the first of their kind in the world and could pave the way for nationwide standards. At least 15 other states pledged to follow California’s lead on car standards on previous clean-car rules, and the federal government usually follows.

California Unveils Proposal To Ban New Gasoline-Fueled Cars

If adopted, the rules would be the first of their kind in the world, prohibiting new gasoline or diesel cars by 2035.

laist.com

View attachment 794029

Carrying out Gov. Gavin Newsom 2020 executive order ordering the board to end the sale of gas-powered cars in California by 2035, the new proposal sets in motion the public regulatory process.

Text does not say new car cannot be bought out of state and driven in. IOW, I doubt it will stop new gas cars in CA.
Regardless, it is 13 years from now, probably be few new gas cars sold anyway.

My take: USELESS law.
Now, if the date was 2027 (or 2030), it will make a difference.

 

[nwdiver]

Text does not say new car cannot be bought out of state and driven in. IOW, I doubt it will stop new gas cars in CA.
Regardless, it is 13 years from now, probably be few new gas cars sold anyway.

My take: USELESS law.
Now, if the date was 2027 (or 2030), it will make a difference.

The WA law bans ICE REGISTRATIONS. So you will not be able to register a new ICE vehicle manufactured after 2030 in the state of WA. Don't underestimate the message this sends to manufacturers. LED bulbs began to dominate as much due to discussion of a ban on Incans as much as the actual ban itself. This also tempters enthusiasm for investment in fools fuel infrastructure.

 

[Zorg]

Even if the end result of the law is that 80% of new cars purchased in CA are EVs, it would be a tremendous step forward.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Text does not say new car cannot be bought out of state and driven in. IOW, I doubt it will stop new gas cars in CA.
Regardless, it is 13 years from now, probably be few new gas cars sold anyway.

My take: USELESS law.
Now, if the date was 2027 (or 2030), it will make a difference.

Not useless at all.
Similar to the small-engine law that would mean hardware stores selling electric only, dealerships would only be able to sell used gas cars.
Companies could try to work around it with almost-new vehicles, but they risk the ban being extended to vehicles less than n months old.
It wouldn't stop people importing used gas cars, but used car sales is a lot more competitive than new car sales. No franchising in used cars.