Those with a 2020 LR/P that had a 322 mile EPA rated range, how many miles does your car now show at 100% charge?

[Mikecm1]

Would also love to hear how many miles are on your car along with the rated range.

Most people I’ve talked to with similar builds have 100% charge close to mine - 283 (~12.2% loss). I’ve verified this number with CAN bus data (scan my Tesla, tes⸱LAX), service mode, and actual driving tests (live in socal so it’s easy to get ideal conditions).

I’m curious about this because from what I’ve read it appears that most owners of 2019 models are closer to 300+ miles out of their original 310 mile EPA rating which is obviously much better.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

it appears that most owners of 2019 models are closer to 300+ miles out of their original 310 mile EPA rating which is obviously much better.

This is not quite right.

2018/2019 showed a max of 310, corresponding to 76kWh. However, they actually started at closer to 77.8kWh in general (just like the 2020 model).

So effectively they started at about 77.8kWh/76kWh * 310rmi = 317rmi.

This was just hidden via expanded rated mile energy content until the vehicle was below the degradation threshold (they would display max of ~310rmi).

Also I think most owners are below 300 miles so I am not sure the claim is really correct.

Just clarifying the comparison with above. All of the above is extremely well verified at this point.

Most owners seem to have about 8-10% ballpark loss at this point but there’s plenty of variability and the estimates on a given vehicle also jump around (mine is a solid 297 right now, meaning it has been at that level for a couple months, when it was at below 290 for about a year).

 

[Mikecm1]

This is not quite right.

2018/2019 showed a max of 310, corresponding to 76kWh. However, they actually started at closer to 77.8kWh in general (just like the 2020 model).

So effectively they started at about 77.8kWh/76kWh * 310rmi = 317rmi.

This was just hidden via expanded rated mile energy content until the vehicle was below the degradation threshold (they would display max of ~310rmi).

Also I think most owners are below 300 miles so I am not sure the claim is really correct.

Just clarifying the comparison with above. All of the above is extremely well verified at this point.

Most owners seem to have about 8-10% ballpark loss at this point but there’s plenty of variability and the estimates on a given vehicle also jump around (mine is a solid 297 right now, meaning it has been at that level for a couple months, when it was at below 290 for about a year).

That was only based on conversations I’ve had with 2019 owners and other info I’ve read. Definitely could be wrong and that could be anecdotal.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

That was only based on conversations I’ve had with 2019 owners and other info I’ve read. Definitely could be wrong and that could be anecdotal.

Yeah it is hard to get an average but we know the starting point (for these calculations) was about 317 rated miles (not 310), the main point I was trying to make.

That’s why many people did not see any loss for months or even years of ownership.

 

[Candleflame]

yes, often gets forgotten that the Long range/P model 3s from 2018-2020 actually started with 324 miles (520km) but the software clamped the car at 499km/310miles to hide degradation.

ive uploaded my 2019 model 3 degradation chart down here.... the green line is average fleet degradation which actually over time has slightly reduced - i presume this is due to the aging fleet with lower odometer readings.... (fleet data displays all cars which run the european P74D internal badge, essentially performance cars from 2018 to 2020, not sure what the badge changed to. Presumably P78D or maybe P80D). Teslafi can be told to ignore badging but will still only list 2018 to 2020 performance cars... Teslafi can be set to not only display eu spec cars which increases car amount from 500 to 900 cars and reduces average range by another 3-4km. I presume this is due to the heat of the southern USA increasing average degradation a little bit compared to europe which doesnt have such hot summers....

 

[cappo3]

Chiming in with my personal experience thus far with my 2020 3P+, EU spec.

The car had an advertised range of 530 km / 330 miles at the time. I'll attach the "offer" sheet you could download back when I placed my order (10/2019), so you can also see it. I ended up going with the all-black interior, but otherwise it's the same car I have.

I took delivery of it in Jan 2020, with an indicated range in the car of 495-500 km / 310 miles at 100%. This was a calculation on my part, since I don't recall charging it fully for quite a while.

Today, after nearly 3 years and 123k km / 76.5k miles the car sits at 450km / 280 miles at 100%. Once again this is a mere calculation, simply extrapolated from what is shown on the display. I'm still not used to charge it fully, I'll give it a try once though.

EDIT: PS: I did not cast a vote as to not skew the results, since the poll is meant for LR values.
EDIT 2: The car is on 18 inch wheels at the moment and it's set that way in the software. I don't know if that has an effect on the remaining range shown on the display.

 

[Candleflame]

Chiming in with my personal experience thus far with my 2020 3P+, EU spec.

The car had an advertised range of 530 km / 330 miles at the time. I'll attach the "offer" sheet you could download back when I placed my order (10/2019), so you can also see it. I ended up going with the all-black interior, but otherwise it's the same car I have.

I took delivery of it in Jan 2020, with an indicated range in the car of 495-500 km / 310 miles at 100%. This was a calculation on my part, since I don't recall charging it fully for quite a while.

Today, after nearly 3 years and 123k km / 76.5k miles the car sits at 450km / 280 miles at 100%. Once again this is a mere calculation, simply extrapolated from what is shown on the display. I'm still not used to charge it fully, I'll give it a try once though.

EDIT: PS: I did not cast a vote as to not skew the results, since the poll is meant for LR values.

this fits pretty well with my average graph. swizerland is cold (relatively speaking, I was there yesterday and it was actually 4C which is better than the -12 we have in germany atm lol) so I expect a little bit more degradation on my 3 which spent 3 years in the tropics with the battery pack never cooling to less than 25C.

the 530km advertisement is weird, I think the 2020 P was still delivered with 499km rated range from factory regardless of battery capacity, the sticker just showed the EPA/ndec range....

 

[TydalForce]

I'm too lazy to charge the car all the way up and see what the thing says, but TeslaMate has a Projected Range value though I'm not certain it comes directly from the car. It's had me in the 280-290 range since early November, before that it was upper 290s. I think the drop is weather related; that's about when it started getting chilly around here (Suburban Philadelphia)
25045 miles, got it December 2019

 

[Mikecm1]

Chiming in with my personal experience thus far with my 2020 3P+, EU spec.

The car had an advertised range of 530 km / 330 miles at the time. I'll attach the "offer" sheet you could download back when I placed my order (10/2019), so you can also see it. I ended up going with the all-black interior, but otherwise it's the same car I have.

I took delivery of it in Jan 2020, with an indicated range in the car of 495-500 km / 310 miles at 100%. This was a calculation on my part, since I don't recall charging it fully for quite a while.

Today, after nearly 3 years and 123k km / 76.5k miles the car sits at 450km / 280 miles at 100%. Once again this is a mere calculation, simply extrapolated from what is shown on the display. I'm still not used to charge it fully, I'll give it a try once though.

EDIT: PS: I did not cast a vote as to not skew the results, since the poll is meant for LR values.
EDIT 2: The car is on 18 inch wheels at the moment and it's set that way in the software. I don't know if that has an effect on the remaining range shown on the display.

I can’t change it to include 3P, but that was an oversight on my end because I really was looking for answers for both dual motor variants. My mistake!

 

[jjrandorin]

I can’t change it to include 3P, but that was an oversight on my end because I really was looking for answers for both dual motor variants. My mistake!

(moderator note)

Thread title changed from From "......2020 Long Range......" to ....."2020 LR / P" per the post above as it appears that is what you would like. Also changed poll description to include LR / P.

 

[Mikecm1]

(moderator note)

Thread title changed from From "......2020 Long Range......" to ....."2020 LR / P" per the post above as it appears that is what you would like.

Thank you!!

 

[Aikidoka]

My 2020 MY LR has 33,452 miles on it and shows 300 miles at 100%. Of course, I've never gotten close to that many miles because of my driving style. I think I could come close if I stayed off the highways and drove the speed limit. Fortunately for most of my driving there are Superchargers where I need them and I'm ready for a break by the time my car needs charging.

 

[Mikecm1]

My 2020 MY LR has 33,452 miles on it and shows 300 miles at 100%. Of course, I've never gotten close to that many miles because of my driving style. I think I could come close if I stayed off the highways and drove the speed limit. Fortunately for most of my driving there are Superchargers where I need them and I'm ready for a break by the time my car needs charging.

Thanks, but I was looking for Model 3 data. Would you mind removing your vote?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

(moderator note)

Thread title changed from From "......2020 Long Range......" to ....."2020 LR / P" per the post above as it appears that is what you would like. Also changed poll description to include LR / P.

So that would only apply to the stealth P, since that had 322 miles.

The 19” and 20” need not apply. (304, 299) Or scale their results.

Or…2020 P owners who respond to the poll should set their wheel size to 18” before responding.

 

[cappo3]

So that would only apply to the stealth P, since that had 322 miles.

The 19” and 20” need not apply. (304, 299) Or scale their results.

Or…2020 P owners who respond to the poll should set their wheel size to 18” before responding.

Does this mean that switching wheel sizes in the car computer translates into a recalculated range?
Mine was born as a 3P+ on 20", but I switch it to 18" for the winter and duly update the wheel size that in the car's computer... Still, I get a pretty low estimated range. Any simpl-ish way to get the car computer to maybe recalculate the range entirely?

 

[Candleflame]

Mine was born as a 3P+ on 20", but I switch it to 18" for the winter and duly update the wheel size that in the car's computer... Still, I get a pretty low estimated range. Any simpl-ish way to get the car computer to maybe recalculate the range entirely?

The estimated range changes with the wheelsize, the rated range does not (again, I have to write this a million times, rated range is a unit of energy NOT a unit of range or range estimate). I have my wheels actually set to 18" without aero covers even though I have chinese uberturbine aerocovers which are actually like a bit better than the standard covers. As such the prediction of the computer is much more acurate. If Id be in Germanz Id probably set the car to 20" uberturbines which means its even more accurate driving at 130-150kmh most of the time.

I think theres an option to change to winter tires too with the latest software.

 

[cappo3]

The estimated range changes with the wheelsize, the rated range does not (again, I have to write this a million times, rated range is a unit of energy NOT a unit of range or range estimate). I have my wheels actually set to 18" without aero covers even though I have chinese uberturbine aerocovers which are actually like a bit better than the standard covers. As such the prediction of the computer is much more acurate. If Id be in Germanz Id probably set the car to 20" uberturbines which means its even more accurate driving at 130-150kmh most of the time.

I think theres an option to change to winter tires too with the latest software.

Thank you for chiming in. To be honest, I tried to not delve into the details about this car for the first three years of ownership.
Now I'll have to have a look around to find out what the differences between rated and estimated range are, I didn't even get as far as thinking which one is which.

I'll also jump in the car and see what the current settings are. As far as I know, my 2020 wasn't yet offered the holiday update, but it is otherwise up-to-date. Interesting, since the 2021 is waiting for wifi to download the holiday update.

 

[Candleflame]

Thank you for chiming in. To be honest, I tried to not delve into the details about this car for the first three years of ownership.
Now I'll have to have a look around to find out what the differences between rated and estimated range are, I didn't even get as far as thinking which one is which.

I'll also jump in the car and see what the current settings are. As far as I know, my 2020 wasn't yet offered the holiday update, but it is otherwise up-to-date. Interesting, since the 2021 is waiting for wifi to download the holiday update.

Rated range is a unit of energy which gets derived from the EPA test. For the initial 2018 - 2021 batteries the battery had an EPA capacity of I think 78.8kwh and adjusted EPA range of 325 miles which was 523km. To stop people complaining about their teslas having reduced range from delivery (would technically be a reason to return the car) the maximum range the computer ever shows is 310miles/499km. That was later changed for certain AWD models and the original RWD model but anyway....

So 523 km over 78.8kwh is 0.1506kwh per rated km. However, the computer hides the bottom 4.5% so 0 - 100% is actually 4.5 - 100% so 1 rated km is actually 0.1438kwh. As your battery degrades rated range gets recalibrated and essentially reflects the reduced capacity of the battery. It doesnt change because of driving habits but because the battery holds less charge. The reason it goes down a bit in winter is due to voltage sag causing a bit of lowered estimation of overall battery capacity.

For the estimated range it uses your actual consumption over the last 10/25/50km and then displays range at current consumption if you were to completely discharge the battery to -4.5% (so past 0%. The ACTUAL estimated range to 0% is hence 4.5% less than displayed).

You may have noticed that for teslas past 2021 the rated range has changed - they have on the one hand a new battery which is bigger but Tesla also re-ran the EPA test I think with their newer heat pump which decreased rated consumption slightly (and the battery is a few kwh bigger now).


Edit:
Its poor practice to discharge the battery to less than 0% btw as the model 3s BMS algorithm uses the 4.5% as a buffer for range estimation. Once you go below 0% you have no guarantee that there is any range left in the battery as calibration can be off by around 3.5-4.5% on a bad day. The 95% (??) confidence interval can actually be read out with the scanmytesla app where the car will tell you the top end of the kwh estimate and bottom end of the kwh estimate. The displayed %SOC is usually bang in the middle ,but the numbers are usually apart by +-2kwh which as you may have guessed fits well into the 4.5% buffer.

Older Model S/X dont have this problem because the older BMS is much more accurate as it takes way more voltage readings. The tradeoff is huge vampiredrain whereas Model 3 has hardly any. I am actually in Germany atm and the car uses around 4km rated range every 48h to top off the 12V battery so thats around 0.5752kwh every 48h (i.e. the capacity of the 12v battery) so vampire drain is around 11 watts/hour. Though tests previously have shown this to be a bit lower than this. May be because I have only let it sit for 5 days so far...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Does this mean that switching wheel sizes in the car computer translates into a recalculated range?
Mine was born as a 3P+ on 20", but I switch it to 18" for the winter and duly update the wheel size that in the car's computer... Still, I get a pretty low estimated range. Any simpl-ish way to get the car computer to maybe recalculate the range entirely?

The 2020 Performance changes RATED range based on wheel size selection. (Since this was a discussion about 2020 Performance, I mentioned it.)

This is quite unique. The 2020 AWD does not do this. And there are very few other years/models/trims that do this.

It happens because they did EPA tests for all of them and sold all three types of vehicles in 2019/2020. This is rare.

Obviously it has no effect on range or anything. It is just a number. Just rated range. (An indicator of energy - which also of course does not change as this number changes, since the contents of each mile change accordingly.)

But for the poll here, it is important.

 

[Candleflame]

The 2020 Performance changes RATED range based on wheel size selection. (Since this was a discussion about 2020 Performance, I mentioned it.)

This is quite unique. The 2020 AWD does not do this. And there are very few other years/models/trims that do this.

It happens because they did EPA tests for all of them and sold all three types of vehicles in 2019/2020. This is rare.

Obviously it has no effect on range or anything. It is just a number. Just rated range. (An indicator of energy - which also of course does not change as this number changes, since the contents of each mile change accordingly.)

But for the poll here, it is important.

oh yes, i forgot about the 2020 performance. the odd one out. i have no idea why this was never patched out. very inconsistent. the other cars the rated range is largely based on similar battery packs.