Thought on I-10 route

[KublaConn]

It snows in San Antonio once every 25 years. But when it does, an inch shuts down the place.

I lived in SA back in 1984-85, so I was there for the "Great Blizzard" of that winter, where they got something like 14 inches of snow in a 24-hour period. Talk about absolute mayhem! Like pretty much all Texas municipalities, SA definitely doesn't have the infrastructure to deal with such a situation and the driving populace has not enough experience to have developed the tools to deal with it, for sure. I remember, absent large amounts of salt and/or sand, they tried throwing down pea gravel...on ice...it was like marbles on glass. Unfortunately, the storm hit in the middle of the day on a Friday, so a lot of people were stranded at work, but at least it was the weekend, because as you said, the whole town shut down for a couple-three days. Fortunately, it's Texas, and all the ice & snow was gone within five days.

 

[juliovelezz]

I'm from El Paso. Hopefully we get a Supercharger soon ...

 

[Chuq]

I'm from El Paso. Hopefully we get a Supercharger soon ...

If you're *from* there, wouldn't you rather have one in Van Horn or Las Cruces?

 

[TexasEV]

I think most people who don't own Teslas yet don't understand supercharging or the transformative experience of charging at home so you start every day with a full charge. They don't get that the ideal placement is to have one 100 miles or so in every direction from you, not where you are. They're still in the gas station mindset.

 

[TaoJones]

If you're *from* there, wouldn't you rather have one in Van Horn or Las Cruces?

I'd rather that Tesla build the 8-10 SCs necessary to provide the first and only transcontinental route that doesn't require snow tires or chains year-round. It's only been scheduled for 2 years now with exactly zero progress.

Building an SC in El Paso would at least enable building out in both directions.

I should write to AeroVironment to see if they'll provide the missing leadership to get at least full-strength, fully-functional ChaDeMo between Tucson and San Antonio. They led the way along the Oregon Coast (see Tesla's recent progress there via supercharge.info). Perhaps they will do likewise in the Southwest Region.

 

[bollar]

How amusing this thread popped up today. I-10 is closed in Louisiana.

The good news is that huge progress is being made on I-20 and it looks like that will be completed between Midland, TX & Atlanta, GA within a few months -- it will require chains, though. Sorry.

 

[TaoJones]

How amusing this thread popped up today. I-10 is closed in Louisiana.

The good news is that huge progress is being made on I-20 and it looks like that will be completed between Midland, TX & Atlanta, GA within a few months -- it will require chains, though. Sorry.

Not all that amusing. Louisiana got hit by two 500-year floods 5 months apart.

Meanwhile, I-40 and I-70 don't have those road closed gates and lights for nothing.

They built I-10 for a reason, as was eloquently espoused by a long-haul trucker at the TM forum. Nobody travels I-40 or I-70 to get to Los Angeles from Florida, given the choice.

Glad they're moving east along I-20. Doesn't change the fact that exactly zero progress has been made along I-10 in two years between Tucson and San Antonio. Whether it's a lack of awareness or incompetence is immaterial at this point. The Alaskan Highway will be connected before El Paso will at this point.

Lot of Tesla owners in CA, AZ, NM, TX, LA, AL, and FL are wondering what the problem is. Especially after having to lose hundreds of miles each way and having to detour into tornado and black ice country.

At this point adding SCs south from ABQ to El Paso would almost make sense except that I remember that stretch isn't exactly a cakewalk either.

All in good time. Just like the Hyperloop. Which evidently will be operational in Dubai before it is in the States. And so it goes.

 

[bollar]

Not all that amusing. Louisiana got hit by two 500-year floods 5 months apart.

I'm from Louisiana and sadly many places I knew as a child have been destroyed by ever increasing severe weather over the past twenty years. I expect that we'll continue to see record-breaking flooding through my lifetime.

Meanwhile, I-40 and I-70 don't have those road closed gates and lights for nothing.

They built I-10 for a reason, as was eloquently espoused by a long-haul trucker at the TM forum. Nobody travels I-40 or I-70 to get to Los Angeles from Florida, given the choice.

It doesn't surprise me that a trucker would say that, since he needs the very fastest route - but the data show that more cars take I-40 than I-10.

I know this is one of our favorite subjects, but since I wrote about this just a few messages up, I'll just quote myself:

I-10 in Texas s important, and I look forward to it because it gets me to Big Bend and Carlsbad, but it's not nirvana:

- In the past year, I-10 was closed more days than I-40. When I-10 closes, it closes for several days at a time.
- I-10 does occasionally ice over. If it does, TxDOT is completely incapable of clearing the road.
- Only 1.8 million vehicles a year travel between San Antonio & El Paso - fewer than a million round trips a year.
- I-10 is an alternate for most of us. The only people who would use it as their first choice are already on I-10 between Houston and Tucson.
- Most weeks, there will be 1, maybe 2 cars a week using these Superchargers. If you could count on that, it would be straightforward to install a 2-stall SC and power it with a local solar array and battery storage. However, I-40 does close on occasion, so maybe you need 4 or 6 stalls and electrical infrastructure to support them.
- It's going to cost somewhere between 600K and $1MM to fill out I-10 between San Antonio and Tucson. This is not inconsequential for 50-100 cars a year.

Nonetheless, I do think I-10 will be completed this year, and I look forward to seeing you in Alpine, TX for some skiing!

 

[TaoJones]

I'm from Louisiana and sadly many places I knew as a child have been destroyed by ever increasing severe weather over the past twenty years. I expect that we'll continue to see record-breaking flooding through my lifetime.



It doesn't surprise me that a trucker would say that, since he needs the very fastest route - but the data show that more cars take I-40 than I-10.

I know this is one of our favorite subjects, but since I wrote about this just a few messages up, I'll just quote myself:

If you believe that only 50-100 Tesla's per year would transit I-10, then I don't know what to tell you. There are over 100 Teslas in the Southern Arizona owners club alone, and they do travel well. Add those in Texas who do indeed leave the state, and those in CA and FL and you'll have hundreds if not thousands of Teslas making some or all of the I-10 journey across the Great Supercharger Wasteland as it erodes today.

In the past 18 months, I've made several trips to Tucson and would have made several more if it wasn't such a headache once there due to the last SC being in Casa Grande. That doesn't count the so far two trips from Key West and Hilton Head, SC for which I had to detour both times.

So there's 8 trips from one guy.

I-10 is indeed heavily used by truckers. Should make SC installation brain dead simple at existing travel plazas, er, truck stops. They're 24/7, well-lit, and have rest rooms and food.

Finally, the entire SC network has been paid for with ZEV credits. The last batch that went to MGM garnered $20 million. That's enough for 60 SCs.

Paying for SCs is not a problem. However, evidently the Southwest Region in particular has trouble following through with its own forecasts and commitments. 0 for 8! 0 for 8! 0-fer in 2014, 0-fer in 2015, and 0-fer in 2016!

To use the parlance of the day, them optics is mighty bad.

 

[roblab]

Interesting that even though you can go to Tesla's site and see that 10 is a planned route from CA to FL (and I wonder what happened to MS in that list), that people want to complain that they don't have a supercharger route. Tesla had Planned to complete this route by year's end. But I want my supercharger NOW!

Long, long ago, I bought a Tesla. I did not buy it because there were superchargers, because there were none, and no mention of ever being any. I bought Tesla because it's a superior product. Still is. If you want to wait until you have local superchargers on every block, or if you can't figure out how to get across west Texas, sorry. It's still a superior product, AND it has superior support.

 

[bollar]

If you believe that only 50-100 Tesla's per year would transit I-10, then I don't know what to tell you. There are over 100 Teslas in the Southern Arizona owners club alone, and they do travel well. Add those in Texas who do indeed leave the state, and those in CA and FL and you'll have hundreds if not thousands of Teslas making some or all of the I-10 journey across the Great Supercharger Wasteland as it erodes today.

In the past 18 months, I've made several trips to Tucson and would have made several more if it wasn't such a headache once there due to the last SC being in Casa Grande. That doesn't count the so far two trips from Key West and Hilton Head, SC for which I had to detour both times.

Absolutely the lack of a route on I-10 is a real hardship on people who live between Tucson & Houston, but the benefits diminish rapidly thereafter. In the San Diego to Key West example, the I-10 route is 2819 miles and the route with existing Superchargers is 3091 miles (according to EVTripPlanner). A completed Supercharger network brings the difference down to under 100 miles. Not a huge difference to me, but I'm sure some fraction of people will try I-10 at least one way.

As for Hilton Head, isn't the problem that neither I-10 nor I-40 are complete? If both were complete, there's only a 20 mile difference between the I-10/I-20 & I-40/I-20 routes from Phoenix. The current situation where you have to start on I-40 and then drop down to I-10 at Oklahoma City seems ridiculous.

I still look forward to meeting my Southern Arizona & New Mexico friends for skiing at Alpine, TX later this year!

 

[bollar]

Interesting that even though you can go to Tesla's site and see that 10 is a planned route from CA to FL (and I wonder what happened to MS in that list), that people want to complain that they don't have a supercharger route. Tesla had Planned to complete this route by year's end. But I want my supercharger NOW!

@TaoJones is correct that Tesla had I-10 in their projection maps as early as 2014. It has slipped by a year or two and I appreciate his frustration to have it supposedly planned and continually pushed back.

 

[dhanson865]

I think the glaring gaps in the Supercharger map are a huge turnoff for potential buyers. I had a conversation the other day with a mom at my child's school. The mom, and her entire family, are huge BEV fans and the husband is a huge Tesla fan, yet they were very unequivocal about buying a Tesla: They won't buy one as long as they are unable to rapid charge when traveling in all the major directions they want to go. As long as I-10 westbound is barren and Dallas-Nashville is barren they're not going to buy. They say they're not going to buy a car that requires them to own, or rent, a second car. I can certainly understand their feelings.

These paths, I-10 to AZ, I-20/I-10 to AZ, and I-30/I-40 from Dallas to Nashville, would open up travel considerably and could be satisfied by 15 or so Superchargers.

I honestly think Texas would be swarming with stores and superchargers if Texas didn't try so hard to keep Tesla out of the state.

Texas isn't open for Tesla sales, governor says

As long as the state is openly hostile towards Tesla as compared to how the majority of the US states allow Tesla to operate its easy to understand why Tesla would avoid putting more infrastructure in the state.

Superchargers while functional are also a marketing expense. If you are hampered / prevented from selling like you would elsewhere it makes sense to develop the network in states where you have stores.

Texas is just in limbo until the tipping point when something changes and Tesla is allowed to do business freely there.

You've got to assume the public outcry will increase when people have to drive or fly out of state to get a Model 3 test drive. But I won't promise anything will change in synch with the Model 3 release. It might take a few years for Texas to open up.

 

[TexasEV]

I honestly think Texas would be swarming with stores and superchargers if Texas didn't try so hard to keep Tesla out of the state.

Texas isn't open for Tesla sales, governor says

As long as the state is openly hostile towards Tesla as compared to how the majority of the US states allow Tesla to operate its easy to understand why Tesla would avoid putting more infrastructure in the state.

Superchargers while functional are also a marketing expense. If you are hampered / prevented from selling like you would elsewhere it makes sense to develop the network in states where you have stores.

Texas is just in limbo until the tipping point when something changes and Tesla is allowed to do business freely there.

You've got to assume the public outcry will increase when people have to drive or fly out of state to get a Model 3 test drive. But I won't promise anything will change in synch with the Model 3 release. It might take a few years for Texas to open up.

You're a bit misinformed. Although they're not called stores, Tesla has galleries in Austin, Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, and soon San Antonio where people do test drive cars. They just have to jump through the hoop of having it scheduled through California. Thousands of Texans are driving a Model S or X. Actually some of the earliest superchargers were built in Texas, connecting the four largest metropolitan areas. It's the vast size and low density outside of the Austin-San Antonio-Houston-Dallas part of the state that makes supercharger coverage have less bang for the buck than elsewhere in the country.

 

[bollar]

I honestly think Texas would be swarming with stores and superchargers if Texas didn't try so hard to keep Tesla out of the state.

I think that's conceivable, but there are now just under 3000 Teslas in Texas. Now that Tesla has allowed the cars to be sold, surely they have to support the owners. In North Texas, we have had huge Supercharger progress in the past year, with I-35 opening at the end of 2015 and I-20 & I-49 opening as we speak. We also see signs of activity on I-30 as well.

IMO, Tesla is proceeding despite the state and perhaps we will be successful in fixing the problem come the 2017 legislative session.

 

[dhanson865]

I think that's conceivable, but there are now just under 3000 Teslas in Texas. Now that Tesla has allowed the cars to be sold, surely they have to support the owners. In North Texas, we have had huge Supercharger progress in the past year, with I-35 opening at the end of 2015 and I-20 & I-49 opening as we speak. We also see signs of activity on I-30 as well.

IMO, Tesla is proceeding despite the state and perhaps we will be successful in fixing the problem come the 2017 legislative session.

I agree they are moving on ahead. I'm just saying counter to those that complain about how I-10 didn't get developed as fast as the 2014/2015/2016 maps said, I think Tesla would have developed Texas more aggressively if Texas had been more receptive a couple of years earlier.

It just delayed that rollout, not prevented it.

 

[Rockster]

IF Texas' legislative decisions are responsible for Tesla choosing to slow the Texas Supercharger rollout,* that would be a huge mistake on Tesla's part. Nothing will overturn corrupt legislation better than demand from consumers. Flooding Texas with Superchargers will increase awareness of, and demand for, Tesla vehicles.

*And I'm not convinced this is the case.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

IF Texas' legislative decisions are responsible for Tesla choosing to slow the Texas Supercharger rollout,* that would be a huge mistake on Tesla's part. Nothing will overturn corrupt legislation better than demand from consumers. Flooding Texas with Superchargers will increase awareness of, and demand for, Tesla vehicles.

Maybe include a sign on each SC stall that says "To purchase this American-made product, please order from California, since direct sales are not allowed in Texas."

 

[stephenpace]

I could be remembering this wrong, but I think current owners had some input to West Texas being delayed. I seem to recall some type of informal survey that asked if we preferred West Texas or South Texas and pretty much unanimously the current Texas owners said they would prefer the South Texas route be built first (hence Victoria). (For sure we wanted the route before the first SpaceX launches in Boca Chica in 2018.) If you compare the old map, I believe the West Texas SCs were 'stolen' in favor of South Texas.

 

[gnelson]

I think it helps to make the issue of even more significance if, when we think about them filling in the I-30/I-40 gap across Arkansas, we not just think of it as "Dallas to Nashville", but also think of it as Houston/Austin/San Antonio to Little Rock/Nashville/Memphis/St. Louis/Chicago. It's less like opening up an electrical circuit connecting two points and more like opening up a floodgate in the middle that will drain the entire tributary system, both upstream & downstream. When I eye the supercharger desert that is Arkansas, my hopes center around being able to avoid having to go through Dallas altogether. I have found that avoiding Dallas is a fairly common goal for most Texans.

I avoided Dallas on a trip to Tulsa. I used the Superchargers in Hunstville, Lyndale and Sulphur Springs.