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Thoughts On e-tron GT Family

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Just finished a nice review from some guy in England and noticed the rear view from the driver's seat is abysmal! Can you leave the rear camera on while driving around or is it only available when in reverse?

I'm planning on test driving both the Taycan and E-Tron this spring. Should I skip one as they are so similar? I'm not a Porsche/Audi fan (but not a hater either) so I probably wouldn't pay extra just because of the name. The test drive is to finish data gathering before finalizing our plaid+ order and I will cancel if either are good enough.
no there is no driving with the rear camera like in the tesla, I personally do not have the need to be monitoring what is going on behind me, like many others do. the etron is taycan lite, the cars are very similar but the taycan has a few better things, like there is no passenger seat memory in the etron, there is no center screen in the etron, the etron is slightly slower and the taycan has a sportier ride but unless you need those things you could save about 5-10% on a close to a taycan audi
 
Anybody seen a good Taycan vs E Tron comparison? Planning on test driving a Taycan this summer. Perhaps I should look closely at an E Tron also. I've never owned either so the Porsche ownership posts have been helpful. No idea of how Audi treats their customers.

Go for the Porsche, or the e-tron GT. As an e-tron SUV owner I have had enough after less than 6 months. The e-tron SUV and Sportback (subtle body shape variation) were rushed to market and have so many problems.

The other two were created as EVs.
 
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no there is no driving with the rear camera like in the tesla, I personally do not have the need to be monitoring what is going on behind me, like many others do. the etron is taycan lite, the cars are very similar but the taycan has a few better things, like there is no passenger seat memory in the etron, there is no center screen in the etron, the etron is slightly slower and the taycan has a sportier ride but unless you need those things you could save about 5-10% on a close to a taycan audi


OMG the rear view (yes old school turning your head to look back) is really small. This is something you'll only appreciate in person. The test drive will tell a lot. I can live without some things but a fully functioning back camera is something I don't think my wife will be willing to give up. We'll have to see what she looks like in the flesh.
 
Based on my current driving needs (minimal long distance highway trips), i'd seriously consider Audi as my next EV over Tesla. Supercharging network is great, but has little value for me since I never use it more than about twice per year. 3 times per year if it wasnt pandemic. And I'll be honest, I have FSD and it's great, getting better, etc, BUT...my opinion is that we are YEARS away from what Elon has promised for even prior years. (Total self driving hands off, parking itself, robo taxi, blah blah blah). Even today I find myself disengaging it for things like known deeply recessed manhole covers on roads in known routes I take, potholes that I see but it doesnt, fast reacting/moving rush hour type traffic where my S is in the right/doing the right thing, but it does it slowly and pisses people off.

So a basic highway type AP would really be fine for me. Combine that with Audi styling and interior quality and at least a 4.5 0-60? (I LOVE speed but dont have a true desire to do 0-60 in 1.9 that often) Im SOLD
 
there are constant issues with 12v batteries being drained because of software glitches, of bad OTA chips that are failing and being replaced with bad chips and the unreliability of the EA network. an example of a charging issue is that the 2021 taycans are supposed to be able to plug in and communicate with the charging unit to initiate the charge, that feature is not working and you have to use the Porsche NA charge app to initiate the charge, but if the porsche connect app or the porsche NA app are glitching you will not be able to initiate a charge. then you are stuck trying to find another nearby CCS charger that might be operational and charge at a slow rate.
EA appears to have never gotten their charging reliability up to a level comparable to the tesla supercharging network.
these charging failures render the taycan to limited range in town use. A very expensive high performance town car.

Baloney.

Yes, there are these issues. But let's not make them overblown. There are plenty of people who have road tripped their Taycan with great success. The 12v issues is known, but it's random. And if you know how to overcome it, is not crippling. The 12v isn't drained or dead, it gets isolated. You can jump the car to re-engage the disconnects and get it back online.

Porsche is rolling out a huge software update. Part of this is charging improvements. It remains to be seen exactly what this entails.

Yes, the EA network is not as good as Tesla superchargers. But it is there, and you can also use Charge Point or any other CCS charging station. There are a lot of CCS charging plugs to be had. It's not as convenient to plug up for sure. But don't make it out to be useless.

So no, the Taycan is not limited to around town whatsoever.
 
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I quite like the Taycan but isn’t there a question of value for money here?

One of them *might* get 300 miles but costs more than twice as much. The other *will* get 340 miles but costs half as much. Ultimately with the Taycan you’re buying a badge, fancy stitching and a bunch of bling.

Not worth it, especially when they don’t have the technical smarts to make most of the important stuff that goes into an EV.

You're right, and you're wrong.

There is no value for money proposition with Porsche. None. They are eye-wateringly, stupidly expensive. Their price for options is scandalous. Their standard features is meager.

And yet people keep buying them.

It's not all about the badge, fancy stitching and a bunch of bling. It's about the way they drive. Porsche is....odd. They drive like a car costing twice as much, while having fewer features as cars that cost half as much. Look at any comparison test of a 911 vs. a Corvette. Or a Boxster vs. whatever. Or a Cayenne vs. even it's stablemate, a Q7 or Q8. The Porsches almost always come out on top, unless their is some kind of price factor. Why? The way they drive.

The Taycan isn't nearly as good as an EV as the Tesla. Not nearly as good. But it's still a decent EV. And it's a WAY better driving car. I just drove my second one, a 4S, a few weeks ago. Man is it good. I'm not loaded enough to simply chuck another 60 grand ON TOP OF a Performance Model 3. But if I was, I would.

Make no mistake, we are horribly spoiled by Tesla. They make the best EV by FAR. And the Model 3 in any guise has stupidly good performance. And at $65k, the Model 3 Performance has more speed than cars that cost triple. But when I go from my M3P into even a slower Taycan, you can feel where the money goes. You can feel the quality of EVERYTHING is better. You can feel that the inputs are smoother, the car is more planted, more stable. It reacts more predictably and more confidently. It's a much better driver's car.

But it's not at all any kind of value for money unless you buy used. No, it's certainly not just fancy stitching and bling. In fact, there's much less bling! The money is in the chassis engineering.

Clearly I am a fan. I've owned 3 Porsches and will likely own more. But I also understand that they are expensive and that their attributes are not appreciated by everyone. And I'm fine with that. I don't want to be seen as defending Porsche here. I think it's ludicrous what they charge. It's gotten so bad that when we replace my wife's Cayenne, we likely won't get another, because the competition (Audi Q7/Q8, BMW X5) is close enough to where the yawning price gap (like $20-$30k) cannot be ignored unless you have "eff it" money. And I don't.

But I post here to help people understand that there IS something you get for all that $$. It's not everything, but there is something there. And feel free to ask any questions.
 
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yes and no, the car is very similar to the taycan but is lacking some features, bjorn does a review on it

Actually, optoned similarly, the ETron GT will have more features for less price. Everything Porsche is ala carte.

Just finished a nice review from some guy in England and noticed the rear view from the driver's seat is abysmal! Can you leave the rear camera on while driving around or is it only available when in reverse?

I'm planning on test driving both the Taycan and E-Tron this spring. Should I skip one as they are so similar? I'm not a Porsche/Audi fan (but not a hater either) so I probably wouldn't pay extra just because of the name. The test drive is to finish data gathering before finalizing our plaid+ order and I will cancel if either are good enough.

The rear view is poor but it's not any worse than in the Model 3, IMO.

No, don't skip them. Thomas from Autogefuhl said you can feel the difference between the two. The Porsche is notably sportier. Both are sporty, but the Porsche is more so.

Now, whether that's worth the extra price is entirely up to you. But definitely find time to drive both.
 
So a basic highway type AP would really be fine for me. Combine that with Audi styling and interior quality and at least a 4.5 0-60? (I LOVE speed but dont have a true desire to do 0-60 in 1.9 that often) Im SOLD

I think that nothing on the market today can match tesla's AP however
from my limited experience with the innodrive in the porsche TAYCAN the Innodrive isn't bad.
the innodrive will not change lanes nor will it navigate on AP, something I disliked in the tesla, and you do need to be in contact with the steering wheel but overall my first impression is that the innodrive is pretty good.

I don't know if the Audi will have a similar system but if it does it might satisfy your need for basic type AP.
 
Baloney.

Yes, there are these issues. But let's not make them overblown. There are plenty of people who have road tripped their Taycan with great success. The 12v issues is known, but it's random. And if you know how to overcome it, is not crippling. The 12v isn't drained or dead, it gets isolated. You can jump the car to re-engage the disconnects and get it back online.

Porsche is rolling out a huge software update. Part of this is charging improvements. It remains to be seen exactly what this entails.

Yes, the EA network is not as good as Tesla superchargers. But it is there, and you can also use Charge Point or any other CCS charging station. There are a lot of CCS charging plugs to be had. It's not as convenient to plug up for sure. But don't make it out to be useless.

So no, the Taycan is not limited to around town whatsoever.
baloney?
if I cannot roll up to an EA station and get charging without having to jockey the car from charger to charger, fiddle with 2 or 3 different apps making sure that they are configured properly then my comments and views aren't baloney.

because of the well known wonkiness of the EA system and the porsche apps my 4 hour trip became a 7 hour trip because I couldn't get the car to charge and had to visit a slow greenlots unit that took almost 1.5 hours to get the car charged.

porsche markets plug and charge, porsche markets 5% to 80% charge in 22 minutes and they are not delivering on those promises.

while you may have had better experiences charging your taycan at EA units I and others have not had the same experience.

maybe the factory update, which appears to be going only to UK an EU owners at this time and requires a minimum four hour visit to a service center will fix some of the problems some cars have but the update will not fix the problems with the EA network.
 
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baloney?
if I cannot roll up to an EA station and get charging without having to jockey the car from charger to charger, fiddle with 2 or 3 different apps making sure that they are configured properly then my comments and views aren't baloney.porsche markets plug and charge, porsche markets 5% to 80% charge in 22 minutes and they are not delivering on those promises.

while you may have had better experiences charging your taycan at EA units I and others have not had the same experience.

maybe the factory update, which appears to be going only to UK an EU owners at this time and requires a minimum four hour visit to a service center will fix some of the problems some cars have but the update will not fix the problems with the EA network.

wasn’t your need to use greenlots user error? because there were other people on that date that reported via plugshare the EA chargers were working fine?

admittedly it’s embarassing that there are like 6 different ways you have to try and get an EA charger to turn on
  1. Plug and Charger if it works - good luck with mustang reviewers so far - seems to always work
  2. Point of Sale card swipe
  3. EA app
  4. Porsche Connect App
  5. Charging America App
  6. Call EA support
but if I recall from other forums (because you’ve been spamming this story all over the forums for the past 3 or 4 days) - you only tried one of those methods? and if you had tried one of the other methods EA would’ve charge your Taycan just fine, and faster than any supercharger…but heh I’m not defending a sucking app eco-system or saying EA is better - but you were not exactly stranded if you would’ve at least tried something else.

we need to distinguish between truly stranded (nothing will work I’m screwed) and OMG this stuff is sooo far behind Tesla on ease of use that I can’t believe they think this will work for most people…

EA clearly fits the latter, and rarely the former…and I’ve personally seen marked progress over the past 6 months, and there is no reason to believe it’s going to stop…more EV vendors are jumping on the EA bandwagon and pressure will make them perform…

Tesla has the lead for a while, but all the problem with EA are fixable - it’s only a matter of time - and then these issues will be

yeah EA sucks and can need improvement - but their entire network isn’t down because you had trouble at one location in florida - and later in the same day didn’t you successfully use an EA charger?

EA is no where near as good as Tesla’s network, but in the past 6 months I’ve been personally having greater success with them in my local area in california…

and in Paso Robles I had my best EV charging experience ever - when you roll up to a functional 350 kW charger the Porsche product’s sustained charging rate and lack of taper until about 93% SOC is best EV charging speed in the entire industry - hell even at a 150 kW charger it beats both my Model 3P and my Wife’s Model X -well over 100 kW charge rate that doesn’t start to taper until after 85% SOC…

sure it tapes off of it’s 270 kW maximum - but is above 120 kW until about 70% SOC, and then stays above 100 kW until about 92% SOC…really really fast…having driven EV’s for 7 years and used a lot of superchargers - nothing in the EV world charges as fast as a Taycan at a functional 350 kW charger…now if they could only get the chargers to be functional.
 
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maybe you should watch Bjorn's review

I did.

I watch enough reviews to know that Bjorn is not a car reviewer. He's an EV reviewer. He's often unaware of features, trims, etc. He's a great resource. But not for vehicular specs when it comes to trims and equipment.

baloney?
if I cannot roll up to an EA station and get charging without having to jockey the car from charger to charger, fiddle with 2 or 3 different apps making sure that they are configured properly then my comments and views aren't baloney.

because of the well known wonkiness of the EA system and the porsche apps my 4 hour trip became a 7 hour trip because I couldn't get the car to charge and had to visit a slow greenlots unit that took almost 1.5 hours to get the car charged.

porsche markets plug and charge, porsche markets 5% to 80% charge in 22 minutes and they are not delivering on those promises.

while you may have had better experiences charging your taycan at EA units I and others have not had the same experience.

maybe the factory update, which appears to be going only to UK an EU owners at this time and requires a minimum four hour visit to a service center will fix some of the problems some cars have but the update will not fix the problems with the EA network.

Yes, Baloney.

Thanks for identifying yourself, I can now correlate you to your posts on the Taycan and Rennlist forums. I will say this: I am sorry that you had an issue. I'm not judging your issue, and not going to say that it was or was not user error. Your experience was what it was and it was not good.

But you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You are extrapolating one bad experience and using it to paint the entire EA network and the usefulness of the Taycan in general. You simply can't do that. You're ignoring the hundreds if not thousands of road trips that have successfully undertaken, without issue, on the EA network. You're ignoring Taycan owners who have posted on Rennlist and Taycan forum of road trips of thousands of miles without issue.

Tesla owners have had issues too. Especially in the early days. These issues are less common now, but they still happen. Would you posit that a Tesla is not suitable for road trips? Nonsense.

Again, I'm sorry for your experience. And you're certainly not the only one to have charging issues in a Taycan or with CCS chargers at EA. But to say this is the majority experience would be utterly false.

Here, here's a video from today of a 790 mile trip done in a Mach E using EA chargers with one small issue, which was remedied by pulling the plug and replugging. No issues.

 
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it’s folly to assume these issues can’t be fixed - they will be fixed, reliability will be improved - it will be a non-issue in 18-36 months…

yes today EA is sub-optimal - but none of this is inherent - it’s teething pains - like any new technology…and it’s already showing progress.

sorry you had an issue, it sucks it really really sucks - but what you experienced is not a permanent state and it’s not doomed to failure - it will get better - it has to if this whole EV thing is going to take off…
 
I have had countless problems charging at Electrify America. One major issue is initiation time. I have noticed that Bolts seem to initiate charge more or less immediately. The e-tron will error-out, require replugging, or sometimes it will trip something in the charger and knock it offline, and more often than not I need to move the car at least once to try other chargers. If all goes well, the initiation time is about 30 seconds before fans kick on (fans = success).

So even though I'm doing everything right, including holding the charger in the port because the plug will "click" but not actually sit flush, the error-out rate is very high. I would estimate that the time spent initiating a charge is often 50-100% of the time spent actually charging (it charges quick!).

Over the summer I went on a long trip that had numerous chargers giving about half power. With e-tron you NEED full power, or else the trip lengths balloon. With a Tesla 3 or Y you might not notice a 20-50% charge rate drop, especially if it initiates right away, while with e-tron's efficiency the impact is amplified. Fortunately, this issue hasn't popped up a lot recently.

Another issue is cable length. e-tron and Taycan often require some terrible parking to A. open the driver door, and B. fit the stiff cable into the charger. They are in the process of retrofitting longer cables for this reason.
 
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if you're truly a fan of EV's and think this whole EV thing needs to succeed -o then you should be routing for EA (and the other guys) because they are making the tent bigger and more inclusive - if you're a Tesla fan boy and no one can do anything better and shouldn't try - well then I can't help you - but I question your commitment to EV's succeeding - because Tesla is carrying a lot of the load today - but that's not sustainable and others need to get on board…

EA is the ultimate demonstration of other's getting on board, but we're all going to have to help them learn where they need to improve - because this is all new to them…
 
A perfect example of that is Model 3 performance which is pretty known for falling well short of the EPA range.

My P3D had a 310 mile range rating, but I've struggled to even get close to 200 let alone 310.

When Milli got her 3 I took it up to the mountains east of Sacramento, Hwy 50 etc. to meet her and friends.

Drove 70 most of the way, then slowed a bit when I got into the mountain roads up past Placerville. Met wifey and then turned around to drive back home. Finally stopped at a Supercharger just for fun, as I could have made it home all right. I calculated my miles. I was getting the equivalent of 318 miles on a full charge. I say calculated because I started at 90% and still had 30% when back near home.

I suspect your problem was mainly the capital letter "P" in the name. If you want good range, you can't "P". After driving electrics for nearly twenty years, I can light foot it and get advertised range on all of my Teslas (I've had 4). Of course, you can't do 80, but 70 isn't too hard. And her 3 still beats all the other hot rods at the signals.
 
I question your commitment to EV's succeeding - because Tesla is carrying a lot of the load today, and others need to get on board.

Maybe so, maybe so, but those others do not seem to be committed to getting on board, rather to pushing their gas cars and making money that way, environment be danged. Tesla has already built and refined the batteries and worked on drive motors that need no transmission, and figured out how to make lightweight bodies. Others could have been working on building electrics for the last 20 years, but no, they didn't, and they aren't, to any extent.

I don't mind at all that Tesla is advancing faster than those other guys can keep up. And I believe they CAN carry that load for quite a while. There are around 300 car brands, and only 40 electrics in that group. They are not interested in following Tesla, so Tesla grows exponentially while Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, etc. dither and diddle, maybe turning out a few electric cars just so they can say they did. Tesla does not need for these slowpokes and retards to "get on board" in my opinion.

WORLD DOMINATION!! :)
 
I did.

I watch enough reviews to know that Bjorn is not a car reviewer. He's an EV reviewer. He's often unaware of features, trims, etc. He's a great resource. But not for vehicular specs when it comes to trims and equipment.
well he did point out the lack of memory for the passenger seat, that would fall under trim and features so I guess you are wrong about his reviews
Yes, Baloney.

Thanks for identifying yourself, I can now correlate you to your posts on the Taycan and Rennlist forums. I will say this: I am sorry that you had an issue. I'm not judging your issue, and not going to say that it was or was not user error. Your experience was what it was and it was not good.
no it was a complete cluster fugg. and that is why I am posting about it. the car is not performing to the levels promised.

But you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You are extrapolating one bad experience and using it to paint the entire EA network and the usefulness of the Taycan in general. You simply can't do that. You're ignoring the hundreds if not thousands of road trips that have successfully undertaken, without issue, on the EA network. You're ignoring Taycan owners who have posted on Rennlist and Taycan forum of road trips of thousands of miles without issue.
one bad apple spoils the barrel. I am not the only one who has had bad experiences with the porsche app, the porsche NA charge app, the EA app and the EA chargers which at best offer a 50% success rate.
Tesla owners have had issues too. Especially in the early days. These issues are less common now, but they still happen. Would you posit that a Tesla is not suitable for road trips? Nonsense.
really? I am an early tesla owner, in fact I drove my tesla from NJ to FL on the very first day of ownership. the only issue I ever had at a supercharger is a slow unit, I never encountered a situation where it was impossible to charge at 8 units like I experienced last sunday.
Again, I'm sorry for your experience. And you're certainly not the only one to have charging issues in a Taycan or with CCS chargers at EA. But to say this is the majority experience would be utterly false.
we've gone from hundreds if not thousands of successful trips using the car and EA chargers to you recognizing that all is not well in EA and Porsche land.
where is it that I said that is was the MAJORITY? I have only related MY experience,
and apparently, with your vast experience you've seen others who have had similar issues charging their cars

Here, here's a video from today of a 790 mile trip done in a Mach E using EA chargers with one small issue, which was remedied by pulling the plug and replugging. No issues.

that's great that you were able to complete the trip without issues. here's a video of someone with a less successful trip
I don't know why you feel compelled to denigrate my experience
have a wonderful day and enjoy your car