Thoughts on the BMW i4 M50?

[Jigglypuff]

@Jigglypuff True, you get real features and benefits for the extra weight. But whether they're worth it is a matter of priorities. I wouldn't want those for my M3P if it meant 1000 lbs extra weight. Priorities!

It seems BMW built a fast, smooth, and highly refined rocketship cruiser. I respect that but I don't get excited by it.

I guess I wish the i4 M50 was something it's not. Something that BMW has the technical expertise to build, but doesn't fit with their modern priorities of upmost refinement.

It's a pretty huge difference in weight. Also a pretty huge difference in comfort and features. HUD, ventilated seats, physical controls, hatchback, a lot of sound deadening, a stiffer chassis, active suspension, luxury materials. It adds up. Would I like it lighter? Sure. Is that how BMW rolls? Nope. Not anymore. Not for a long, long time.

The other issue I have with the i4 M50 is that if did want a faster, smoother, more comfortable EV with a liftgate...I might rather have a newish Model S.

It wouldn't be a clear-cut choice, there's clearly ups and downs to each and I'd definitely need to test drive the i4 M50 before deciding to not buy it, if that makes sense, but my best guess based on what I've read is I'd prefer an S (crazy shortage era pricing aside).

Similarly, since the i4 kind of straddles Model 3 and Model S to me, if it had been out when we were car shopping last year I'd definitely have tested it before pulling the trigger on the M3P or P2P. The thought crossed my mind to wait for the i4, but we were really needing a 2nd car, and with delays + shortages so common it seemed like a bad idea to wait on something that was officially months away, *if* no further delays happened...and with no guarantee that we'd actually like it more than the M3P or P2P.

Hell, I'll be the first to admit sometimes I come away from a test drive with a VASTLY different opinion of a car than I expected from reading about it. Like the Polestar 2 Performance. Could be that if/when I drive an i4 M50 someday, I'll be wanting to swap my M3P for it. Maybe.

The Model S doesn't have the luxury of the i4. Are they offering ventilated seats again? Seems when they do, they stop right away. Still no HUD or leather. By all reports I've read, the Model S suspension is relatively primitive, like the rest of Tesla's suspensions. Plus the MS is a boat.

The M3P is the backroad performance choice, sure, but it's primitive in too many ways, like the MY. They don't even have extendable thigh support. I'm uncomfortable after an hour in the MY, let alone 300 miles.

And, no joke, a modern Jeep handles bumps and has a better ride than an MYLR. Sad.

 

[santua]

Plus the MS is a boat.

If the MS is a boat, the i4 is a yacht considering its weight. Also, it is no Miata in its dimensions.

By all reports I've read, the Model S suspension is relatively primitive, like the rest of Tesla's suspensions.

Has not tried it and calls it primitive. At least go get a feel for it. I personally have not tried the i4, so I cannot speak of its suspension, but I did have an M2 Competition and I can say that there is nothing particularly special about the suspension on that BMW. In fact, the suspension on my car was very stiff, which I enjoyed around town, but dreaded on road trips.

They don't even have extendable thigh support. I'm uncomfortable after an hour in the MY, let alone 300 miles.

Again, very subjective. I occasionally do +250 mile trips and I have no problem with my M3P. In fact, when I did these trips with the BMW, my lower back would start falling asleep. Also, I do not think I've used the thigh support once in my life.

And, no joke, a modern Jeep handles bumps and has a better ride than an MYLR. Sad.

Also, we have a 2021 Rubicon that we use as a beater and that thing definitely does not ride as well as our MYP.

But again, I do not understand this thread.

Everyone is going to have their preferences which will lead them to like one car over the other. And that is the way it should be, if we all enjoyed the same things then everything would be the same and life would be quite boring, wouldn't it?

Also, I think it is great that brands like BMW are trying to get into the EV space. Competition only leads to better products and more affordable prices....sometimes loll. The i4 is not for me, but I would definitely buy an all-electric "ground up," M car from BMW.

 

[oktane]

I have or currently owned S, X, Y but not 3. Even my current Plaid lacks some luxury feel compared to the i4. Biggest lacking is quality control, flawless paint and fit, sound seals, HUD, and a suspension that feels like a high-end car rather than a rental. I hope Tesla ups its game in these areas before the Germans and Lucid, Cadillac etc. gain traction.

 

[tm1v2]

It's a pretty huge difference in weight. Also a pretty huge difference in comfort and features. HUD, ventilated seats, physical controls, hatchback, a lot of sound deadening, a stiffer chassis, active suspension, luxury materials. It adds up. Would I like it lighter? Sure. Is that how BMW rolls? Nope. Not anymore. Not for a long, long time.

The Model S doesn't have the luxury of the i4. Are they offering ventilated seats again? Seems when they do, they stop right away. Still no HUD or leather. By all reports I've read, the Model S suspension is relatively primitive, like the rest of Tesla's suspensions. Plus the MS is a boat.

The M3P is the backroad performance choice, sure, but it's primitive in too many ways, like the MY. They don't even have extendable thigh support. I'm uncomfortable after an hour in the MY, let alone 300 miles.

And, no joke, a modern Jeep handles bumps and has a better ride than an MYLR. Sad.

@Jigglypuff S is bigger than an i4 but many S models are actually lighter. Probably thanks to the aluminum chassis among other things.

You can't judge an S based on a Y. After our 2021 MYLR test drive I told my wife sure we can buy one if you like, but you're going to have to drive it most of the time, because I'd much rather drive our old January 2013 Model S than that brand new Model Y. Later I was like actually no, we can't buy a Y, every time I drive it I'd wish we'd bought another S instead.

S suspension tuning has varied widely over the years, can't lump them all together. The only junk S suspension was the coil spring version that was standard in the early days, which made it ride and handle like an economy car. I think most opted for the air suspension because it transformed the ride, with better handling too (relatively speaking). You won't come across many coil spring S but they are out there.

The original S air suspension was softly tuned, and while it wasn't the very smoothest air suspension ever, it still had a real nice, premium feel to its ride quality. Even those soft early S actually got around corners pretty well with good tires, thanks to its weight distribution.

Next came the P85+ suspension option. P85D also featured similar suspension tuning at least early on. The Plus suspension was a surprisingly legit sporty upgrade. Felt like Tesla really gave the whole suspension a sporty makeover down to the bushings. Not too hard edged, it still rode well and felt appropriate to the S. Really quite good suspension tuning.

Then Tesla went back the other direction. By the 100D/P100D era (maybe 90D/P90D too I forget) the suspension was as soft as ever, and the S became heavier than ever. Very nice smooth ride, a little smoother even than older S, and also quieter, with wind noise well suppressed now and the front motor quieted down since early dual motor S. Excellent highway cruisers, but also the worst handling S. These were the Model S boats.

Next came the Raven, which I believe introduced adaptive dampers to the S, alongside the air springs. I haven't driven a Raven, but by most accounts they were even smoother than the (P)100D. I think handling was also improved vs P100D but not sure to what extent.

Finally the Palladium - the current Model S. It reportedly has a new or thoroughly revised suspension, still based on adaptive dampers + air springs. By many accounts it's the first sporty (depending on the settings/mode) S suspension since the P85+ / early P85D, better than them actually, and the Palladium reportedly still rides very well at least on the softer settings.

(There is a big gotcha with the Palladium though - apparently the adaptive damping system basically doesn't work in some of them, it's too stiff all the time and no matter the settings, and Tesla still hasn't fixed the affected cars.)

I would not call any Tesla a luxury car, but many/most S were optioned with real leather at least, and the "next gen" / 2nd gen S seats were really quite good and comfortable, with somewhat useful bolstering too. They were entirely better than current 3/Y seats or early S seats.

I think my overall point is many versions of the S really do check off the same essential boxes as the i4. Does the dashboard construction feel as good as a late-model BMW? Probably not. Does it have a HUD option? No. But I care more about how a car feels on the move. The S feels premium enough, certainly compared to the Y if that's the bar to exceed.

 

[Nda721]

My main interior gripe is rear seats are too small, trunk is a bit small, and lack of physical HVAC controls. That should have been retained.

I disagree here. I know to each their own. But having owned a BMW. I get much more flexibility and control. The BMW is still so basic although much of the rest of the car has advanced.

 

[SO16]

Are they offering ventilated seats again?

Yes.

 

[Not That M3]

Sound deadening. A modern, active suspension. Interior comfort. It also meets or exceeds the EPA ratings in testing. All unlike Tesla.

Bloated, overweight, worse braking, and worse range. The thing is in SUV territory. Not to mention that grill is hideous.

I like the hatch though and have historically been a huge fan of BMW (having owned 4 different ones).

 

[tm1v2]

It's a pretty huge difference in weight. Also a pretty huge difference in comfort and features. HUD, ventilated seats, physical controls, hatchback, a lot of sound deadening, a stiffer chassis, active suspension, luxury materials. It adds up. Would I like it lighter? Sure. Is that how BMW rolls? Nope. Not anymore. Not for a long, long time.

@Jigglypuff Thought exercise: If my ideal sporty 4 door EV had the weight vs refinement trade-off of the 2021+ M3P, the traction of the M3P (or better), the M3P's Track Mode (without the annoying enter-via-Park restriction!), the quick direct steering of the M3P....but the liftgate of the i4 M50, the much better seats of a sporty BMW sedan, and most importantly the much better sporty suspension tuning that we know BMW is capable of (not the more comfort-focused air suspension of the i4 M50!)...

...who would have an easier and more successful time building this car? BMW or Tesla? I think BMW would, and that's why I'm disappointed in the i4 M50. Not because it's bad! But because of what it could have been.

I'm realizing the car I described above is basically an E46 ZHP EV with a liftgate. That's why I feel like BMW could and should build it.

You're right though, BMW moved on from such cars long ago.

 

[Jigglypuff]

@Jigglypuff Thought exercise: If my ideal sporty 4 door EV had the weight vs refinement trade-off of the 2021+ M3P, the traction of the M3P (or better), the M3P's Track Mode (without the annoying enter-via-Park restriction!), the quick direct steering of the M3P....but the liftgate of the i4 M50, the much better seats of a sporty BMW sedan, and most importantly the much better sporty suspension tuning that we know BMW is capable of (not the more comfort-focused air suspension of the i4 M50!)...

...who would have an easier and more successful time building this car? BMW or Tesla? I think BMW would, and that's why I'm disappointed in the i4 M50. Not because it's bad! But because of what it could have been.

I'm realizing the car I described above is basically an E46 ZHP EV with a liftgate. That's why I feel like BMW could and should build it.

You're right though, BMW moved on from such cars long ago.

BMW wouldn't build that car. Nobody would. Too small a market. The ability to pass on bumpy roads with silky smooth suspension is priceless to me. Can't trust stock Tesla suspension for that. There might be a bump. But then the shocks alone require active bits, which all add weight. And building up other suspension bits in a design that rides well also adds weight. And having hard points on the chassis and then an overall chassis that is sufficiently stiff also takes weight. And if you don't want boominess or other unpleasant vibrations. And pretty soon, so have the level of refinement most BMW owners want these days, you're looking at <3600 lbs in a RWD M2. AWD M3? 3924lbs. 4169 lbs for an AWD M440i Grancoupe. 5018 lbs for an i4 M50. All things being equal, they probably could have kept it to 4500 lbs if they went deep with carbon fiber and other efforts, but then it'd have cost another 40k.

I've been in a few S before. Was never impressed with the interior. I'm glad they finally have ventilated seats again, but the ride isn't there, neither on sportiness or comfort. I haven't gone back to check it again because fool me once...

 

[Jigglypuff]

If the MS is a boat, the i4 is a yacht considering its weight. Also, it is no Miata in its dimensions.

Has not tried it and calls it primitive. At least go get a feel for it. I personally have not tried the i4, so I cannot speak of its suspension, but I did have an M2 Competition and I can say that there is nothing particularly special about the suspension on that BMW. In fact, the suspension on my car was very stiff, which I enjoyed around town, but dreaded on road trips.

Again, very subjective. I occasionally do +250 mile trips and I have no problem with my M3P. In fact, when I did these trips with the BMW, my lower back would start falling asleep. Also, I do not think I've used the thigh support once in my life.

Also, we have a 2021 Rubicon that we use as a beater and that thing definitely does not ride as well as our MYP.

But again, I do not understand this thread.

Everyone is going to have their preferences which will lead them to like one car over the other. And that is the way it should be, if we all enjoyed the same things then everything would be the same and life would be quite boring, wouldn't it?

Also, I think it is great that brands like BMW are trying to get into the EV space. Competition only leads to better products and more affordable prices....sometimes loll. The i4 is not for me, but I would definitely buy an all-electric "ground up," M car from BMW.

You don't get constant head toss in the MY? I do. That's why I'm splurging on Ohlins. It's that or I sell the car. I don't get that kind of head toss on the Wrangler, not even close. It rides like a normal vehicle but with no on-center feel whatsoever for the steering.
Opinions on suspension are pretty varied. I don't know which M2 you drove, but the 2022 M3 and M4 competitions I drove at the track were fantastic at the track. The M240i was a floppy noodle in comparison. I know it's nothing like an M2.

BMW still has a lot of gas cars to sell, so the i4 gets all of the attention of design that the 4 series gets plus its own attention. I think it went more than well. There's nothing magical about designing a car just to be an EV or designing it to take EV and ICE. If done from the start, it can be excellent at both.

 

[SO16]

I've been in a few S before. Was never impressed with the interior. I'm glad they finally have ventilated seats again, but the ride isn't there, neither on sportiness or comfort. I haven't gone back to check it again because fool me once...

The Plaid is quite different from previous versions.

 

[oktane]

I've owned every Tesla except the Model 3. None have had "good" suspensions compared to any luxury brand. At best the Tesla suspension has been "ok" for me. You get lots of head bob and diagonal rocking over bumps that I find super annoying. I've also driven the Ford MachE GT with magnetic suspension and was not impressed. The Taycan 4S I drove is much better. Any luxury ICE is better as well. My only explanation is skimping on what's needed to really fix the suspension either due to weight or cost.

 

[Jigglypuff]

I would not drive a stock Y or 3 at the track. The damping and bump stops are just too unpredictable. Maybe if the low-speed damping was significantly increased to stop all the rocking, and if the bump stops didn't engage so damn quickly then skyrocket the spring rate that's already underdamped, then I'd be happier. The car is totally fine on smooth roads. Add bumps and it gets bad. Add corners and bumps and it gets downright scary. The 3P is significantly better than the Y but only OK. It still gets scary.

I really miss my Fiat 500e. Low limits and undersprung/underdamped, but it was an understeering hoot. Like a puppy sliding on linoleum.

My FRS is a blast except that, on big bumps, it lacks rear travel.

E60 550i Sport was a lot of fun with the active antiroll.

The Taycan, with antiroll, RWS, and active shocks, does it all correctly. It's just too big a vehicle. The real holy grain will be active antiroll, RWS, and magnetorheological shocks, perhaps with air springs to also allow ride height adjustment and load balancing. That'd be a hell of a suspension. No EV with all that yet, that I know of. Rimac?

 

[FlatSix911]

I've driven my Model S with traditional springs at the track and it performs.

Keep in mind that the current Model S has the EV track record at Laguna Seca.
*(Faster than a NA Porsche 911 GT2 RS (991) driven by Randy Pobst) - 1:28.30)

Tesla Model S News and Reviews | InsideEVs

Get the latest on new Tesla Model S models including first drives, in-depth reviews, concept car photos, new features, recalls and more.

insideevs.com

 

[RSpanner]

the i4 eDrive 40. 301 per charge, RWD, 5.5 to 60 starts at $55K Most likely a better build than my 3, but no thanks.