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Thoughts: US delivery on EU cars.

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Adrian, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. Adrian

    Adrian Title(D)

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    Next summer i plan a two-month roadtrip in the states. I reside in Norway, and the plan was to ship one of my (filthy) ICE cars over the pond for the experience. I have been holding off on buying a Tesla in await for the P85D (and tow-hitch.) Now that one of the two is here some other options are opening up. For my trip i could, in theory, order a Tesla with factory delivery. In practice this might be harder to accomplish. Has anyone else done this? I can arrange shipping and import into Norway myself.

    Other challenges will include charging with the different plug in the states. Is there an adapter from the EU Type2 the car would have to the US type plugs that would work universally?

    Anything else? Can you cross state lines on temprorary registration?
     
  2. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    You could maybe try to use an EU CHAdeMO adapter, if it is available before summer. I'm not sure if there are any good solutions for slow charging. The Type 2 standard isn't used in the US, as far as I know.

    Anyway, going on a road trip without being able to use the superchargers just seems painful.
     
  3. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    The general US standard is J1772 - which is the same as Mennekes type 1, so for most charging a Mennekes type 1 to type 2 adapter would work, which I'm pretty sure you can buy in Europe with little trouble.

    However, that won't work with the Superchargers, which use Tesla's proprietary connector here in the US. The signaling is the same, so all you need is a dumb adapter, but I'm not aware of one existing, and you need some pretty heavy duty wiring in the adapter to handle 120 kW.

    Crossing state lines on a temp plate is no problem. I'm not sure if there are issues registering a European spec car here even temporarily - I believe EU law has a special exception to allow European delivery programs, and I'm not sure US law has anything similar (I don't know either way.)
    Walter
     
  4. Gerardf

    Gerardf Active Member

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    #4 Gerardf, Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
    Next to the import & tax issues I see several reasons not to do so, as the cars are quite different :

    - Our European Type2 connectors on the car offer 3-phase charging. A very big advantage actually for us here in Europe !

    - Different UMC. Actually the Norwegiam UMS is somewhat different form the standard European one !

    - You can not use the 3G build in (but must use a 4F MiFi). And how about updates ?

    - I do not think Tesla will service a US car in Norway. And how about warranty ?

    - How about homologation ? There might be differences in several small things

    - You give up on the SuperChargers. I made a trip to Norway using just free SuperChargers (and a few times 230V at a camping)

    - Forget about ever selling your a used car in Europe .

    So this would only be a valid option if Tesla would sell you a European car in the USA.. I doubt they will do that. I would also think Tesla will have better deals for shipping than you can probably get.

    Update: OK, I guess I did not understand / read your question correctly :)
     
  5. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    As far as I can determine, such an adapter isn't available.

    One solution is to buy a semi-portable charging station with Type 2: Elbilhjelpen | Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment

    And then hack off the CEE plug and replace it with a 230V household plug. Someone in the US should be able to say which socket you would be most likely to encounter. And maybe there are some adapters available.
     
  6. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Doing a two month US road trip in a Euro spec Model S that could not use the US Superchargers would likely be unpleasant. You would be limited in how far you could travel every day and would have to find reliable overnight charging every day. I would not recommend it.
     
  7. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Yes, but many states gave a 30 day limit on temp tags and sometimes even shorter (20 days) for non-residents. That said, you might want to check out this article on California temp registrations which apparently can be used for long periods....I can't speak for it's accuracy though.
     
  8. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    One more thing, given that there is an irrelevant amount of three-phase grid in the US, AC charging will be limited to ~7 kW. Unless you also bring a single phase to three phase transformer.
     
  9. randompersonx

    randompersonx Member

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    The grid is entirely 3-phase.

    Most industrial and commercial buildings have 3phase delivered to them by the utility. Most condos and apartment buildings too.

    It is on the other hand very uncommon to have a 3phase outlet, and most Single Family homes have 2-phase only. There are standards, such as NEMA L15-20 which would work just fine for a (modified) european UMC, and almost all commercial/industrial/condo buildings COULD wire one up for you -- but it would be an uphill battle, and UMC charging for cross-country would be quite painful compared to Supercharger or HPWC.

    At best, you could get good at wiring up temporary 3phase circuits on a whip directly to panels, and work out pitstops at preplanned commercial locations.
     
  10. Adrian

    Adrian Title(D)

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    They might have better deals on shipping, but $1400 from LA to Norway is imo a negligeble sum when we add it all up.
    The mission here is to see how to make this possible, not to deem it immedately impossible. This includes a "dumb" adapter capable of supercharging as mentioned by Saghost.
     
  11. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    I thought split-phase was almost the only thing you'd be able to get, but if you say three phase is available, I'll believe you.

    I do however think that it would be smarter to opt for a semi-portable EVSE instead of the UMC. Then you would at least be able to charge at 22 kW. (If the available three phases outlets are 400V 32A TN.) It would be simple to make adapters from 230V outlets to the semi-portable EVSE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You can pretty much rule out Supercharging. Using an adapter cable would be dangerous, and will probably void your battery warranty. There are no guarantees that it would even work, as there is some handshake going on before charging starts, and you might just get an error.

    For DC, a CHAdeMO adapter would be your best bet.
     
  12. Adrian

    Adrian Title(D)

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    A trip like this won't be doable without working supercharging. A dumb adapter wouldn't void anything, as long as it's to spec all it would do is route power and signals from one place to another. Both use the same type of signaling. The power also ends up in the same place. Do the US and EU cars have different on-board chargers?
    Maybe i can contact Tesla and see if they have any ideas - perhaps ordering the car with a US connector and swapping it out once in Europe. After being in talks with the distributors etc. here in Norway i'm not confident they will be very helpful in a matter like this, is there anyone within Tesla in the US i can contact?
     
  13. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    By dumb I meant that there's no electronics or processing involved - it just connects wires 1, 2, and 3 to wires A, B, and C - just like the J1772 adapter Tesla ships with US cars.

    Actually, if you could put that adapter together, you'd probably be good on the charging front - you could then use the factory J1772 adapter if necessary.
    Walter
     
  14. Adrian

    Adrian Title(D)

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    I updated my last post to include what you're writing here :) I'm familiar with active/passive (smart/dumb) adapters.
    They (J11172 and Type 2) both use the same type of DC signaling, so communication with chargers that need it (Superchargers and CHAdeMO) shouldn't be an issue. It's just a matter of getting an adapter as you say. Question is, does it not exist because it is impossible/hard to do, or because there's no market for it? ;)
     
  15. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    You need to be supercharger enabled. Does the signaling for this distinguish between different regions?
     
  16. Adrian

    Adrian Title(D)

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    From what i've been told (a Tesla tech and investigating CHAdeMO charging solutions) the signaling is the same in all regions. I don't have any direct, written sources on this however.
     
  17. randompersonx

    randompersonx Member

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    "Standard" commercial power is 3phase is 208V L-L, 120V L-N.

    Amperage can be made available at higher amperage (say 50A) to make up for the lower voltage than you would experience from 3phase EU power, no idea if the car can accept this type of power, however.
     
  18. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    #18 Yggdrasill, Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
    The EU dual chargers can accept 32A max. They are also designed for 400V L-L, so 208V wouldn't work. A lot of the residential grid here in Norway is three phase 230V L-L, and the most you can get out of such a connetion at 32A is about 7 kW, by using just one phase.

    The Renault Zoe is also struggling with our 230V three phase. Renaults solution is a 27 kg/60 lb transformer for 3.6 kW... Renault Zoe: Mini-transformator løser problemene med å lade - TV2.no
     
  19. randompersonx

    randompersonx Member

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    So if you are in Norway, and have 230V L-L 3-phase, your only option is 1-phase charging?

    I'm very surprised the charger cannot auto-range down to 230V (I wouldn't be surprised if it cannot draw more than 32A, however).
     
  20. Adrian

    Adrian Title(D)

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    You can charge three-phase 230V from a blue industrial socket, Yggdrasill. Gets you 7.4kW/h.
    CEE_3P%2BN%2BPE_230V.jpg
    Can be wired by your local neighborhood electrician without any doohickeys if you have space for it in your fusebox.
     

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