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Three-phase charging question
- Thread starter alex_au
- Start date
I don't understand why it shows that... I believe it's got to do with how it measures the Input on each phase etc..
Basically what your seeing though is correct....
My 2015 P90DL shows 240V with the Circled 3 and 32A because it can 22kw Charging.
Some general articles here gives you an idea why:
www.quora.com
Basically what your seeing though is correct....
My 2015 P90DL shows 240V with the Circled 3 and 32A because it can 22kw Charging.
Some general articles here gives you an idea why:
How 3 phase can supply 230 and 415v?
Answer (1 of 11): any three phase can supply two voltage levels. Line to Line voltage: this is the voltage between two lines (any two of three lines). Phase voltage: this is the phase voltage with respect to neutral (sometimes ground) phase voltage= line voltage/(root three) so in your questi...
Last edited:
Zoltrix77
Member
Just to confirm, yes, its taking the voltage between 1 phase and neutral (or more likely each phase and neutral and averaged).
And just for further clarification, official standard voltage in Australia is 230/400v at -2%/+6%. This was standardised in the 90's to further align with european standards, the transition started in 1983. However, its more common than not to see 240/415.
It's because the charger is a star-connected load, not delta-connected.
Star-connection has the loads between phase and neutral, so the phase-to-neutral voltage is relevant. Delta-connection has the loads between phase and phase, so the phase-to-phase voltage is relevant. This is also why the charger requires a neutral connection - it can't operate on a three-phase source with no neutral.
241V phase-to-neutral is the same as 417V phase-to-phase.
More accurately, 240V and 48A (3*16) [or 96A (3*32A) for older Teslas which (I believe) had 22kW AC chargers].
There is never 720V AC floating around Teslas.
Did you note that I said "effectively"? It is 240V x 3, while technically not 720V, it is effectively 720V.
If I charge with single phase and 5A it is charging at 1.2kW (240x5).
If I charge with three phase and 5A it is charging at 3.6kW which equals 240x3x5.
Well, no, because the phases are sinewaves offset from each other by 120°. You can’t add these voltages the same way you can add power.
That *is* roughly 420V phase to phase. Tesla has a pretty strange way of showing it; they seem to be showing the phase to neutral voltage. Here in North America, phase to neutral is 120V and phase to phase is 208V on 3 phase (240V on split phase/2 phase). What they're showing you is a phase to neutral voltage of about 240V; your phase to phase voltage is approximately 415-420V. Total power on 3 phase, as has been mentioned, is the phase to neutral voltage x current x 3, but it can also be expressed as phase to phase voltage * current * sqrt(3). From those two expressions, you can probably tell that the phase to phase voltage= the phase to neutral voltage * sqrt(3). Which in this case, is 241V*sqrt(3)=417V phase to phase. Proper way to show this isn't with a single voltage, it's with two, specifying which is the phase to phase. In North America, they would show something like 208Y/120 and in your case, they should show 417Y/241 @ 16A.
It is not adding the voltages together and I never said that. As @cafz explained, they are wired differently to the usual 3 Phase power outlet so you actually get 3 phases of 240V each running through a HPWC.
Look at the OP's original picture. They are charging at 16A but are getting 12kW. The only way to achieve that is 240 x 3 x 16 = 11,520 which is being rounded up to 12kW.
If it was regular 3 phase it would only be 400V and 400 x 16A would only be 6.4kW.
See: Charging – The technical version – Tesla Owners Club Western Australia
OneSpeed
Member
As others have said, the magnitude of 3Ø voltages can not be arithmetically summed, and it was incorrect and misleading of you to suggest that "three phase is effectively charging at 720V+/-5V". By their nature, three phase voltages are balanced, and sum to zero volts by design.
What do you mean by regular 3Ø? If you mean a delta circuit, the power output at 16A per phase would be 415 x 16 x 3 = 20kW, not 6.4kW.
SaturnV
Member
In our 2019 Model 3 - The onboard '3Ph' charger for Aus and the EU is effectively 3 single phase chargers that detects how many of the phases are connected (L1, L2, L3). If you disconnect a phase before the Wall charger (L2 or L3 - L1 position must be connected in the wall charger) the car would still charge from two phases and show a little "2" on the UI instead of the "3". Max charging with two phases was limited to 16A per phase from memory (7.5kW). This was the case in 2019 on the Gen II wall charger. I did get one "check charger" type error some time ago on two phases. I've connected three phases always except for my 'experiment' and not tried two phases for some time, and wouldn't know if this still works after the numerous software updates.
SaturnV
Member
Tested - Gen II HPWC still works on two phases as long as L1 connected in Wall charger (Max 2Ph 16A 7.5kW). No little "2" anymore (the "3" stays if two phases are connected), and an alert on UI "Charging slowed - some AC phases not powered, check power source and charging equipment"
I think voltage is detected on L1 only
I think voltage is detected on L1 only
OneSpeed
Member
SaturnV
Member
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