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Throttled SC, is that still a thing

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TomServo

TomServo

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
2,947
2,344
Belleville IL
#1
I'm out shopping for a pre-owned MS and lucky me there's a great supply. But as I keep searching I keep recalling conversations from the past where suddenly MS owners noticed their MAX SC speeds had been throttled, apparently because the owner had abused some SC protocol. Sucks for that owner but now I wonder what happens if someone buys a pre-owned MS and heads off to their first SC session only to discovered SC speeds are throttled. So I have four questions for the group:

1. Did that really happen
2. Does it still happen
3. If I ask Tesla will they disclose that before I buy
4. If after I buy and discover it's been throttled can I return it?

I started an online chat on the Tesla Pre-Owned site and waiting for a response, but I thought I'd seek some real-world experiences from owners.

The response may force me to buy a new Model 3 which doesn't meet my needs as much as a MS does.

Thanks in advance.
 
#2
Abuse of the owner had nothing to do with it in most cases.

I have a 2015 S85D.....supercharged occasionally over 138,000 KM (86,000 miles). Some time last fall, I got an OTA update, and my supercharging speed was cut by nearly 2/3. What would have normally been a 20-30 minute charge, 20-80%, went to over an hour. It's still faster than level 2 - and still usable, but now makes longer trips MUCH longer than it should. For me, Supercharging is free.....so I shouldn't complain too much

Most of the "pundits" on this site will point to Tesla doing this in reaction to a safety issue or longevity issue with the 85 battery packs

Tesla will not disclose it.

You can use the Tesla return policy for 7 days. After that, it's yours.

Tesla is still the best electric car in the world......but if you make a lot of long trips, and supercharge, expect to wait 45 minutes - 1 hour, vs newer batteries taking 15-20 minutes
 
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#3
TomServo said:
I'm out shopping for a pre-owned MS and lucky me there's a great supply. But as I keep searching I keep recalling conversations from the past where suddenly MS owners noticed their MAX SC speeds had been throttled, apparently because the owner had abused some SC protocol. Sucks for that owner but now I wonder what happens if someone buys a pre-owned MS and heads off to their first SC session only to discovered SC speeds are throttled. So I have four questions for the group:

1. Did that really happen
2. Does it still happen
3. If I ask Tesla will they disclose that before I buy
4. If after I buy and discover it's been throttled can I return it?

I started an online chat on the Tesla Pre-Owned site and waiting for a response, but I thought I'd seek some real-world experiences from owners.

The response may force me to buy a new Model 3 which doesn't meet my needs as much as a MS does.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Yes it has happened, is still happening, and will continue to happen until the class action lawsuit is resolved.

All 60, 75, and 85 packs are impacted. See the 500+ page thread in the battery forum here.

My P85D is completely unusable for road trips at this point. Even though it gets 259 miles, it just cannot be recharged in less than 2 hours.
 
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#4
Exactly as @DMC-Orangeville said
Expect at least a 45 min charge for 2 hrs drive.
I still have my ‘12 S and a 2020 3. Hard to take the S on road trips even with free SC. 3 charges too fast to eat a meal though so the S is nice for that. I also had the S for s couple of years where I had to use 2-4 hrs of 14-50 charging for a 310 mile trip so I’ve had it all. Just need to figure
scheduling properly really.
The battery preheat is pretty aggressive on the newer firmware which helps as long as you set a SC as your destination
 
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#5
I have a new MS Long Range Plus....I sometimes supercharge in Irvine (Michelson) and can only get 65-72kW charging....I charged yesterday from 18% to 80%....took almost 1hr 10 min.....I think it is the charging unit and not the car...but what I am doing now if I use the supercharger is to charge until it starts slowing down (~45 minutes)....then leave.....that gets me about 315 miles.....my car can charge to 98% (capped), so true full charge is 383 miles vs 391....and 80% is ~312.8 miles.....thats enough for me......to charge from 80-90% takes another 15-25 minutes....I am now alternating between supercharging and home charging.....
 
#6
TomServo said:
... suddenly MS owners noticed their MAX SC speeds had been throttled, apparently because the owner had abused some SC protocol. Sucks for that owner but now I wonder ...
Click to expand...
Just for the record, pretty much all cars were limited via a software update regardless of how much or little they Supercharged or DC fast charged.
TomServo said:
The response may force me to buy a new Model 3 which doesn't meet my needs as much as a MS does.
Click to expand...
That's a bad idea... for now. Let's wait and see how many more Tesla battery packs are software limited over time. So far it's some packs, wait a year or two and see if other packs also get limited. That would tell you that the 3 will also likely be limited in the future as well. I, for one, won't reward that behavior by giving them more business.
 
#7
InternetDude said:
Just for the record, pretty much all cars were limited via a software update regardless of how much or little they Supercharged or DC fast charged.

That's a bad idea... for now. Let's wait and see how many more Tesla battery packs are software limited over time. So far it's some packs, wait a year or two and see if other packs also get limited. That would tell you that the 3 will also likely be limited in the future as well. I, for one, won't reward that behavior by giving them more business.
Click to expand...
Yep.....software caused this issue....My brother in law has a new M3 and Mx.....he has the same issue I both my MS and M3
 
#8
I'm taking a wait and see approach to this issue. I would not purchase a Tesla right now or in the foreseeable future until we know the long term impact. If they've done it once they can do it again (easily). Too many complaints too of range degradation, shitty service, lacklustre build quality, etc. too.
 
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#9
r1200gs4ok said:
I have a new MS Long Range Plus....I sometimes supercharge in Irvine (Michelson) and can only get 65-72kW charging....I charged yesterday from 18% to 80%....took almost 1hr 10 min.....I think it is the charging unit and not the car...but what I am doing now if I use the supercharger is to charge until it starts slowing down (~45 minutes)....then leave.....that gets me about 315 miles.....my car can charge to 98% (capped), so true full charge is 383 miles vs 391....and 80% is ~312.8 miles.....thats enough for me......to charge from 80-90% takes another 15-25 minutes....I am now alternating between supercharging and home charging.....
Click to expand...

The Michelson Drive Supercharger in Irvine is an "urban" style supercharger that has a maximum charge rate of 72 kW, but each charging vehicle is independent (you will not be "sharing" with a paired vehicle, as is the case with the non-urban style superchargers).

Find Us | Tesla
 
#11
There are two different things in play here. First is the point the OP was asking about (supercharger abuse). Yes - Tesla has throttled cars that used the superchargers too often but it may have only been for people with free supercharging. It would be silly for them to limit a revenue stream by punishing people who are paying for supercharging.

Second thing is the charge-gate/battery-gate issue where Tesla via software update cut max supercharging speeds for older cars. They were not 100% clear on why they did it but most think it's for either battery longevity reasons or safety issues.
 
#12
dannycamps said:
There are two different things in play here. First is the point the OP was asking about (supercharger abuse). Yes - Tesla has throttled cars that used the superchargers too often but it may have only been for people with free supercharging. It would be silly for them to limit a revenue stream by punishing people who are paying for supercharging.

Second thing is the charge-gate/battery-gate issue where Tesla via software update cut max supercharging speeds for older cars. They were not 100% clear on why they did it but most think it's for either battery longevity reasons or safety issues.
Click to expand...
Both of which are unethical at best and illegal at worst. Stay tuned...
 
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#13
I supercharged at Oxford, AL yesterday on the way back to Atlanta from Birmhingham. Arrived at about 31% SoC and was pleased to see the displayed kW ramp to almost 150kW. Once I saw I was pulling pretty much the max my car can handle, we locked up the car and walked to the nearby Target to hit their bathrooms, buy some drinks, and other snacks. Unfortunately, before we could get into the Target (which is very close by) my charging speed had fallen to 22kW. I thought to myself, maybe someone else plugged in with a really low SoC and they're getting the majority of the 150? But honestly, that is not my understanding of how paired supercharging works, so who knows. Maybe the algos have been tweaked and look at your final destination to determine whether you get the lion's share of a shared stall or the "short end of the stick." Technically, I had enough to get to my destination (with about a 10% buffer) when it dropped to 22kW, so all I can think is that they were politely letting me charge at the lower than 60kW rate, but I was getting the lower of the two shared stall amounts because my destination was already within reach?

So hard to tell. But let's say my speculation about the charging drop being related to me having enough juice to get home is wrong. What the hell happened then? I went from almost 150 to 22 in just a minute or two... If I needed my car to charge to 80% to make it somewhere, I would've lost a lot of time in that Target that would've been used to try another stall and see if I can get sustained better speeds.

I wish Tesla would give more details about why the car is getting the speed that it is. Some displayed notifications would be nice Tesla!!
Examples:
-Charging speed reduced because of shared stall
-Charging speed reduced hot supercharger handle
-charging speed reduced thermal limits on vehicle (to be fair there is an alert letting you know that AC will not work as well because cooling is being diverted to the battery but that just tells the owner why their AC is not as cool. Better than nothing, but we need more info!)
-charging speed reduced supercharger output limited by utility (Tesla is aware of the issue)
-charging speed reduced supercharger working in limited output mode (Tesla is aware of the issue)
-charging speed reduced high resistance at charging plug (Tesla is aware of the issue)
-charging speed reduced traction pack not yet at optimal temperature

SOMETHING.... This will only get worse with newer, less tolerant and/or less informed owners
 
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#15
Last comment: I don't like how Tesla sets their charging prices:

1) by the minute (by the second would be nicer if you're going to make it time based)
2) With only two tiers: above 60 and below 60kW. What I've found is that when I start to taper, the car will sit at like 61 for a long time (putting me into the higher rate by just a teeny bit)... Then when I fall below 60, I'm well below it... not 59. More like 22.

I'd rather Tesla look at how many kW's I pulled and charge me for that (with a profit) than have it be time based. There's way too many ways for them to make time based work in their favor by playing with the charging rate either just above or well below the 60kW magic threshold.
 
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