Has anyone gotten the TOU options that is running Android?
Yes. Me.
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Has anyone gotten the TOU options that is running Android?
Hi. My setup is nearly identical to yours. Main differences are all panels are north and total is 6kw. I too am with powershop here in Sydney.So, thought I'd share my experience so far with Tesla Time Based Control since I enabled it 11 days ago (Wed 4th April).
First up, some 'baseline' data.
I'm located in Sydney, Australia and my power retailer is Powershop (Ausgrid is the supplier).
My 'effective' rates after 21% discount are:
My peak/shoulder/off-peak windows are:
- Off-peak: 17.92 c/kWh
- Shoulder: 19.64 c/kWh
- Peak: 40.37 c/kWh
- Daily Supply Charge: 94.29c
- Solar Feed-in (F.I.T.): 12.8 c/kWh
I have 6.93 kW of solar panels (21 x LG 330N1C SolarEdge optimised) on my roof but with partial shading, and panels on two different roof faces to maximise sun exposure at different times of day, run at a lower overall efficiency than raw numbers would have you expect. I have a SolarEdge SE7300 single-phase inverter and a Tesla Powerwall 2 battery with firmware v1.15.1 and can charge from the grid as well as Solar.
- Weekdays: Peak 2pm-8pm, Shoulder 7am-2pm and 8pm-10pm, Off-peak 10pm - 7am
- Weekends: Shoulder 7am-10pm, Off-peak 10pm-7am
Using Tesla app 3.3.5 on Android, I have set my Tesla Powerwall battery to Time-Based Control (aka TBC or ToU), and the sub-setting at "Cost Saving" (as opposed to Balanced). The webpage definitions can be found here (note: this is the AU document as opposed to the US version of the document. If you review the Modes of Operation with Solar there IS a difference between the US and AU versions. US version can be found here.
Now, with all that out of the way, let's get on to some assumptions (please feel free to question or challenge in case I am wrong on any of these)!
Due to:
I generally want:
- My F.I.T. (12.8 c/kWh) being lower than my Off-peak (17.92 c/kWh), AND
- My Off-peak (17.92 c/kWh) and Shoulder (19.64 c/kWh) being so similar (only 9.16% difference)
This last point is where we are all really hoping the Machine Learning in the Tesla cloud is good and starts to learn my household consumption patterns and volumes, and how much energy my Solar panels produce in relation to published weather information.
- My Solar generated power to be stored and only fed to the grid if the battery is full
- DON'T charge battery from the grid (off-peak) on Friday and Saturday nights to discharge during Shoulder on Saturday and Sunday as the efficiency loss and battery wear and tear is higher than the 9% price difference.
- DO charge the battery from grid Sun-Thur nights (off-peak) but only as much as is required so that when we hit Peak period, we can entirely power the house from Solar with battery covering the delta if house consumption exceeds Solar generation through the entire Peak period.
Firstly, my battery level data is all logged and graphed here. I find that this makes it a LOT simpler to track the results of what I observe the app doing. This is a skunkworks solution by a good friend of mine (author of the Powerwall Companion app on Windows 10) and is not available for sharing, so please don't ask. I'm also logging to PVOutput here and using the PVOutput Integration Service to grab my Powerwall data via a local WiFi connection to the battery which is a little flaky.. but is usually logged to extended data.
During the week, I found it worked exactly as I expected. It seemed to grid charge as soon as I hit off-peak (10pm) and fill the battery to around 40-50%, The next day, Solar generated power would continue to top-up during the day, while the house drew from Solar and Battery during Peak period. The battery was generally down to under 20% by the end of the Peak period. Given the significant variance in household power consumption, I'm pretty happy with that.
What I DON'T think is working correctly, is that on weekends, I was still seeing the battery grid charging, and then discharging during my Shoulder periods. As per assumptions listed above, this doesn't actually seem to be saving me money, in fact, I believe it is costing me! I feel that this is caused by the current version of the Tesla app only asking you to provide peak/off-peak time windows, but not your actual tariffs. Given the variety of tariffs available, and in particular, those with a FIT HIGHER than their Off-peak rate, and those with a larger differential between their Off-peak and Shoulder rates, there are quite a number of different scenarios that could play out.
During the week, I might switch over to the "Balanced" Time-based Control setting and see if it alleviates the weekend behaviour.
Note: Prior to enabling the Tesla Time-based Control, I did use Bernard's (aka user 1253 on Whirlpool and BJReplay on TMC Forums) PowerwallService for Windows and found it excellent. My inner geek would gladly still be using it if not for the fact that my system was enabled by Tesla for T.B.C quite early in the staged rollout.
Given the lack of transparency from Tesla about what factors they take into consideration (beyond what they have documented publicly in the aforementioned Modes of Operation With Solar), what assumptions are made, and what priorities or weightings are assigned to different pieces of data, plus the lack of good long-term monitoring and reporting tools, I still think there is great opportunity for a community developed solution. IMHO, it would need to:
- Pull data from Tesla cloud (universally available to everyone), as well as via local URL (not everyone has local WiFi connectivity to their PW2)
- Provide long-term reporting capability
- Use actual tariff data AND ToU windows to transparently lay out the charging/discharging priorities
- Use Machine learning to:
- Learn power consumption habits of the household
- Predict weather and likely Solar PV production the following day/s to determine how much grid charging to conduct, and when
- Based on collected data, report on 'health' of the battery, and potentially even the Solar panels.
Thanks for reading.
That's a great post......So, thought I'd share my experience so far with Tesla Time Based Control since I enabled it 11 days ago (Wed 4th April).
First up, some 'baseline' data.
I'm located in Sydney, Australia and my power retailer is Powershop (Ausgrid is the supplier).
My 'effective' rates after 21% discount are:
My peak/shoulder/off-peak windows are:
- Off-peak: 17.92 c/kWh
- Shoulder: 19.64 c/kWh
- Peak: 40.37 c/kWh
- Daily Supply Charge: 94.29c
- Solar Feed-in (F.I.T.): 12.8 c/kWh
I have 6.93 kW of solar panels (21 x LG 330N1C SolarEdge optimised) on my roof but with partial shading, and panels on two different roof faces to maximise sun exposure at different times of day, run at a lower overall efficiency than raw numbers would have you expect. I have a SolarEdge SE7300 single-phase inverter and a Tesla Powerwall 2 battery with firmware v1.15.1 and can charge from the grid as well as Solar.
- Weekdays: Peak 2pm-8pm, Shoulder 7am-2pm and 8pm-10pm, Off-peak 10pm - 7am
- Weekends: Shoulder 7am-10pm, Off-peak 10pm-7am
Using Tesla app 3.3.5 on Android, I have set my Tesla Powerwall battery to Time-Based Control (aka TBC or ToU), and the sub-setting at "Cost Saving" (as opposed to Balanced). The webpage definitions can be found here (note: this is the AU document as opposed to the US version of the document. If you review the Modes of Operation with Solar there IS a difference between the US and AU versions. US version can be found here.
Now, with all that out of the way, let's get on to some assumptions (please feel free to question or challenge in case I am wrong on any of these)!
Due to:
I generally want:
- My F.I.T. (12.8 c/kWh) being lower than my Off-peak (17.92 c/kWh), AND
- My Off-peak (17.92 c/kWh) and Shoulder (19.64 c/kWh) being so similar (only 9.16% difference)
This last point is where we are all really hoping the Machine Learning in the Tesla cloud is good and starts to learn my household consumption patterns and volumes, and how much energy my Solar panels produce in relation to published weather information.
- My Solar generated power to be stored and only fed to the grid if the battery is full
- DON'T charge battery from the grid (off-peak) on Friday and Saturday nights to discharge during Shoulder on Saturday and Sunday as the efficiency loss and battery wear and tear is higher than the 9% price difference.
- DO charge the battery from grid Sun-Thur nights (off-peak) but only as much as is required so that when we hit Peak period, we can entirely power the house from Solar with battery covering the delta if house consumption exceeds Solar generation through the entire Peak period.
Firstly, my battery level data is all logged and graphed here. I find that this makes it a LOT simpler to track the results of what I observe the app doing. This is a skunkworks solution by a good friend of mine (author of the Powerwall Companion app on Windows 10) and is not available for sharing, so please don't ask. I'm also logging to PVOutput here and using the PVOutput Integration Service to grab my Powerwall data via a local WiFi connection to the battery which is a little flaky.. but is usually logged to extended data.
During the week, I found it worked exactly as I expected. It seemed to grid charge as soon as I hit off-peak (10pm) and fill the battery to around 40-50%, The next day, Solar generated power would continue to top-up during the day, while the house drew from Solar and Battery during Peak period. The battery was generally down to under 20% by the end of the Peak period. Given the significant variance in household power consumption, I'm pretty happy with that.
What I DON'T think is working correctly, is that on weekends, I was still seeing the battery grid charging, and then discharging during my Shoulder periods. As per assumptions listed above, this doesn't actually seem to be saving me money, in fact, I believe it is costing me! I feel that this is caused by the current version of the Tesla app only asking you to provide peak/off-peak time windows, but not your actual tariffs. Given the variety of tariffs available, and in particular, those with a FIT HIGHER than their Off-peak rate, and those with a larger differential between their Off-peak and Shoulder rates, there are quite a number of different scenarios that could play out.
During the week, I might switch over to the "Balanced" Time-based Control setting and see if it alleviates the weekend behaviour.
Note: Prior to enabling the Tesla Time-based Control, I did use Bernard's (aka user 1253 on Whirlpool and BJReplay on TMC Forums) PowerwallService for Windows and found it excellent. My inner geek would gladly still be using it if not for the fact that my system was enabled by Tesla for T.B.C quite early in the staged rollout.
Given the lack of transparency from Tesla about what factors they take into consideration (beyond what they have documented publicly in the aforementioned Modes of Operation With Solar), what assumptions are made, and what priorities or weightings are assigned to different pieces of data, plus the lack of good long-term monitoring and reporting tools, I still think there is great opportunity for a community developed solution. IMHO, it would need to:
- Pull data from Tesla cloud (universally available to everyone), as well as via local URL (not everyone has local WiFi connectivity to their PW2)
- Provide long-term reporting capability
- Use actual tariff data AND ToU windows to transparently lay out the charging/discharging priorities
- Use Machine learning to:
- Learn power consumption habits of the household
- Predict weather and likely Solar PV production the following day/s to determine how much grid charging to conduct, and when
- Based on collected data, report on 'health' of the battery, and potentially even the Solar panels.
Thanks for reading.
In your case - it seems to be there is no economic benefit to shift load on the weekend - so you should just set the weekend to 'all day off peak' and then Powerwall will know there is no need to do anything until Sunday night.
If you believe the efficiency losses are worse than the cost difference - then you shouldn't be putting any additional throughput on the battery and only avoiding the lower rate FiT by basically doing self consumption on the weekends. You're right though - if the FiT is higher than off peak - then I don't see a way to capture that in the current settings as you would want to discharge to gross home load during off peak (~5c/kWh benefit), but personally, I would prefer to keep that in case of a shortfall in peak the next day (~27c/kWh benefit).
My situation is whether it's worthwhile discharing the PW2 on the weekends given that it's off-peak tariff all weekend and the parity between FiT and Off-Peak is very small (see above and factoring about 10-15% loss in storage). So, is it better to set the reserve on the PW2 to 100% all weekend and then Monday morning change to 0% reserve? That way I have a full battery to kick off Monday and pay off-peak rates for any net grid usage from Friday 10pm to Monday 7am?
My main issue is that my system regularly starts discharging weekdays at around 4.30am, while still on offpeak . I have no idea why. There are no abnormal loads at that time.
Secondarily, I find the system often going partially to the grid even when solar is insufficient for the house, and even when the battery is not fully charged.
Can you explain the difference between balanced and cost saving? I really have difficulty understanding what the difference is.
In your case - it seems to be there is no economic benefit to shift load on the weekend - so you should just set the weekend to 'all day off peak' and then Powerwall will know there is no need to do anything until Sunday night.
It's interesting to contrast the operation modes in Australia to those in the US.
It will be interesting to see how much power is left in the battery at the end of my Peak period this evening.
So far, I'm finding that it is quite conservative and I usually have around 20% remaining (conservative margin for error).
Nope. Didn't make it. 8:30pm and battery empty, well short of 10pm peak period end.
This is pretty odd. I would think there should be never be any discharging from the PW during nighttime off-peak hours unless there's a grid outage, or there's excess solar energy stored in the battery and your feed-in tariff is lower than the off-peak rates. If any charging from the grid took place, then any internal "have we stored excess solar energy?" flag should be set to False.Now, I know this is not an exact science, but what doesn't make sense to me is that my overnight off-peak period ends at 7am by which time Tesla has let the battery discharge down to 70%. Given we ran short on battery power to get us through the afternoon/evening peak, and it is *normally* fairly conservative, it seems very odd that it let the house consume power from the battery during off-peak (i.e. before 7am) rather than holding 100% charge until end of off-peak and then letting the house start consuming...