Time for a new HV Battery

[ddb1001]

What is different with Nissan v Tesla is that Nissan's are less likely to quickly give up the boat - they just deteriorate over time. This makes Tesla's system a bit easier to game. We have seen Tesla change thresholds over time with the battery - and they aren't transparent about it. That is pretty undeniable.

Given Tesla's history, "sus" is a given. I mean has a software release note ever said - "we are slowing down supercharging because we realized it hurts your battery more than we thought"? Maybe I missed it. Or how about the somewhat safety issue - "we are backing off on regen in cold temps because we realized it hurts...."

I'm 100% fine with deterioration over time. At least those owners get to use their vehicles and can pay for a new pack when they feel the price justifies the increased range. They're not forced to make a decision.

I know an owner of a 10+ yrs old Leaf. He says that he gets about 60% of the range he used to get when he purchased it new. He can still fast charge and he only does it once every 1-2 months. But he can use his vehicle. Every day. Without the threat of it shutting down if he doesn't replace the battery pack.

Tesla is only hurting itself by doing this. I've told everyone I know to steer clear of buying Teslas because of the battery and drive unit issues. With more owners of the 2012s, 2013s and 2014s dealing with these issues, the word will spread.

Toyota became a market leader due to its reputation for producing reliable vehicles. The opposite will happen with Tesla when more owners wake up one day and find that their vehicles are either crippled or no longer working.

 

[ucmndd]

Tesla is only hurting itself by doing this.

Doing… what?

You’re repeatedly implying some deep conspiracy to deliberately cripple batteries via software updates with absolutely zero evidence to back up the claim. Saying something over and over again doesn’t make it true, even in 2022.

 

[ddb1001]

(1) Unless enough of us get together, legal action is a non starter. I've bombarded myraid influencers, including Mr. Musk, about this recent BMS-u029 issue. No takers yet.

@NV Ray @David_Cary -- Here's a list of owners with battery issues from this site. There are similar discussions on reddit, IG, fb, tiktok, etc. A law group that won against Apple for 'batterygate' is looking into this issue.

 

[NV Ray]

@NV Ray @David_Cary -- Here's a list of owners with battery issues from this site. There are similar discussions on reddit, IG, fb, tiktok, etc. A law group that won against Apple for 'batterygate' is looking into this issue.

Great info, thanks. At your convenience, could you call me at 775.476.2912 about this list?

 

[dark cloud]

I'm 100% fine with deterioration over time. At least those owners get to use their vehicles and can pay for a new pack when they feel the price justifies the increased range. They're not forced to make a decision.

I know an owner of a 10+ yrs old Leaf. He says that he gets about 60% of the range he used to get when he purchased it new. He can still fast charge and he only does it once every 1-2 months. But he can use his vehicle. Every day. Without the threat of it shutting down if he doesn't replace the battery pack.

Tesla is only hurting itself by doing this. I've told everyone I know to steer clear of buying Teslas because of the battery and drive unit issues. With more owners of the 2012s, 2013s and 2014s dealing with these issues, the word will spread.

Toyota became a market leader due to its reputation for producing reliable vehicles. The opposite will happen with Tesla when more owners wake up one day and find that their vehicles are either crippled or no longer working.

You're hurt. I get it. You bought a 2013 model S with what, 2 months warranty left on the battery and drive units? and then the HV pack went out after the warranty expired. Sucks. But buyer beware. There is a reason that many choose to lease for 3 years, or buy for $100,000+ and then sell for 50,000 and do the same cycle all over again: To budget a fixed monthly amount and avoid unexpected costly repairs.

If someone thinks they would buy a used Model S for what? $20-30,000, thought they were going to drive around cheap with free unlimited supercharging, and never have any big expenses, they were kidding themselves.

Tesla is definitely no Toyota. No point making a comparison. Guess what vehicle I had my daughter purchase a year ago? A Toyota. She doesn't have deep pockets, therefore should not be buying a 7 year old vehicle from any new manufacturer, because history will always repeat itself; startups will have a learning curve, and costly cars will always have costly repairs.

Either sell it and be gone, or fix it and live with it, and expect future possible costly repairs, those are your choices, but the ranting about "Tesla should do this, or be like this, or doomsday mongering" is not going to change anything.

@NV Ray @David_Cary -- Here's a list of owners with battery issues from this site. There are similar discussions on reddit, IG, fb, tiktok, etc. A law group that won against Apple for 'batterygate' is looking into this issue.

And in the extremely unlikely event the case is accepted, and the even more unlikely event you win, you will all get: about $900?
congratulations.

 

[tlP85]

$700 in the U.S state of Delaware (DE) or in Germany (DE)?

Delaware, so $700 USD

 

[Droschke]

Thanks.

I CAN unlock it afterwards if I want through requesting it under upgrades. However, I do not see any options when I check for software upgrades.

You should just try to use the app under any of its applicable categories to open a ticket with the same service center that mentioned the $700 and requested the full unlock. Once they do it, it's all over the air with no SC visit required.

 

[henderrj]

This answer is easy - because they don’t have to. In the US, federal law requires at minimum an 8 year/100k mile battery warranty on new EVs. No such requirement for replacement parts.

Wait, there's a law requiring an 8 year warranty? This is the first I've heard about it. Not sure what do you think about that. Is there a chance you could give a reference for that?

 

[ucmndd]

Wait, there's a law requiring an 8 year warranty? This is the first I've heard about it. Not sure what do you think about that. Is there a chance you could give a reference for that?

5 minutes of googling did not immediately turn up the section of federal code, but there are countless articles that cite the apparent fact. One chosen at random:

Here’s one way we know that an EV’s battery will last the car’s lifetime

An electric vehicle's battery must be warrantied for 8 years or 100,000 miles.

arstechnica.com

“As it turns out, an EV's battery pack is subject to a more stringent warranty than the rest of the car—federal law requires automakers to guarantee packs for eight years, or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), at a minimum.”

 

[henderrj]

5 minutes of googling did not immediately turn up the section of federal code, but there are countless articles that cite the apparent fact. One chosen at random:

Here’s one way we know that an EV’s battery will last the car’s lifetime

An electric vehicle's battery must be warrantied for 8 years or 100,000 miles.

arstechnica.com

“As it turns out, an EV's battery pack is subject to a more stringent warranty than the rest of the car—federal law requires automakers to guarantee packs for eight years, or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), at a minimum.”

Thanks for the effort. Unfortunately the author of the article gave no citation. I am not particularly comfortable with believing statements without support! Hopefully we'll get some clarification.

 

[Rocky_H]

Given Tesla's history, "sus" is a given. I mean has a software release note ever said - "we are slowing down supercharging because we realized it hurts your battery more than we thought"? Maybe I missed it.

I'm unsure which thing you mean by this comment.
1. Maybe you missed it? Yes, you did. They did an update that did exactly what you described.
2. Or maybe you meant just that their update notes didn't describe it that way? Well obviously not. That is just terrible public relations and would be stupid, and you wouldn't find any company that would do that. So that part isn't a Tesla-specific thing.

I've told everyone I know to steer clear of buying Teslas because of the battery and drive unit issues. With more owners of the 2012s, 2013s and 2014s dealing with these issues, the word will spread.

Huh? Well, yeah, I also tell everyone who asks to steer clear of the 2012 to 2014 cars. They were too new, and had some early design oversights that their newer cars have corrected. That's not an issue with their newer models or all Tesla cars.

 

[tallypwner]

Add me to the list. 2013 model P85+. 48k miles. Battery and car were babied and had a recent battery inspection at Tesla last winter when MCU was upgraded. Battery died suddenly a couple months ago.

Going through the said bizarre process. Approved a $15k invoice for reman 85 unit. Without telling me the estimate went to $19k and now lists a 90kwh version C pack replacement.

Tesla still hasn't communicated with me yet. Very strange.

I don't want a neutered 90kwh pack that has paid upgrades and lower voltage for an extra $4000. I'll either push for a reman unit for the original price or ask them to charge me the original price for the 90 kwh battery.

That $700 charge to unlock another 5% range or whatever would really piss me off after all this crap.

Tesla needs to treat it's customers better because when real competition is available there's a lot of non-fanboys that will happily switch brands and *sugar* all over Tesla for their customer service and utterly bizarre service repairs.

I'm especially bitter because I'm an oldschool Tesla guy that bought in before the Model 3 was a thing and customer service was amazing back then. Going downmarket really screwed the brand from my perspective. But I know there's a lot of happy Model 3/Y customers.

 

[maximizese]

Add me to the list. 2013 model P85+. 48k miles. Battery and car were babied and had a recent battery inspection at Tesla last winter when MCU was upgraded. Battery died suddenly a couple months ago.

Going through the said bizarre process. Approved a $15k invoice for reman 85 unit. Without telling me the estimate went to $19k and now lists a 90kwh version C pack replacement.

Tesla still hasn't communicated with me yet. Very strange.

I don't want a neutered 90kwh pack that has paid upgrades and lower voltage for an extra $4000. I'll either push for a reman unit for the original price or ask them to charge me the original price for the 90 kwh battery.

That $700 charge to unlock another 5% range or whatever would really piss me off after all this crap.

Tesla needs to treat it's customers better because when real competition is available there's a lot of non-fanboys that will happily switch brands and *sugar* all over Tesla for their customer service and utterly bizarre service repairs.

I'm especially bitter because I'm an oldschool Tesla guy that bought in before the Model 3 was a thing and customer service was amazing back then. Going downmarket really screwed the brand from my perspective. But I know there's a lot of happy Model 3/Y customers.

I agree with most of your sentiments but I don't think their decline in service, reputation, quality, and experience is due to going downmarket. We bought our 11/13 built S85 used from Tesla for ~$40K, so my perspective is pretty different and I'm willing to spend the $18K-$22K for a new 90kW pack. However, I'll be looking at the competition and with the course that Tesla is headed I will have no problem switching to a manufacturer who builds a better and more reliable product that is just as easy to road-trip in. Time will tell.

As for your situation, I suggest you save all your correspondence and records via screenshots. You should not pay extra for what you did not authorize.

 

[David_Cary]

Yes - I meant that they didn't disclose in the release notes what the update did.
I think it is terrible PR to cripple cars and not let people know about it. But, sure it might be terrible to disclose it also. That would be a subject to debate.
Honest disclosure - things like recalls - at least show some integrity. I personally think Tesla did pretty good with early cars with reliability. Not great but pretty good considering. It is perfectly acceptable to realize 6 years later that fast charging is damaging to a battery. It is not acceptable to fail to admit it.
I generally thinks it comes from Musk's personality. Fake it till you make it tech philosophy.
Either way, the whole thing should make any reasonable person somewhat suspicious about Tesla's integrity. At least from my vantage point.
But, sure, all companies may do something similar. And that is fair. Some of the legacy car makers spend a little bit of energy working on long-term customers but they also make huge mistakes.
But no way would I pony up to buy another Tesla - not because of the car but because of the company.

 

[Droschke]

It is perfectly acceptable to realize 6 years later that fast charging is damaging to a battery.

Did you mean: It is perfectly acceptable to realize 6 years later that fast charging was damaging to a battery?

 

[henderrj]

Approved a $15k invoice for reman 85 unit. Without telling me the estimate went to $19k and now lists a 90kwh version C pack replacement.

Tesla still hasn't communicated with me yet. Very strange.

I don't want a neutered 90kwh pack that has paid upgrades and lower voltage for an extra $4000. I'll either push for a reman unit for the original price or ask them to charge me the original price for the 90 kwh battery.

That $700 charge to unlock another 5% range or whatever would really piss me off after all this crap.

Tesla needs to treat it's customers better because when real competition is available there's a lot of non-fanboys that will happily switch brands and *sugar* all over Tesla for their customer service and utterly bizarre service repairs.

I'm especially bitter because I'm an oldschool Tesla guy that bought in before the Model 3 was a thing and customer service was amazing back then. Going downmarket really screwed the brand from my perspective. But I know there's a lot of happy Model 3/Y customers.

In other threads, where Tesla has put a new battery in and increased the estimate like this, people have reported that they demanded the original price and Tesla did it and left the new pack in there. Definitely would be a great win for you if they would do that! You might as well ask. That doesn't cost anything.

 

[zoomer0056]

In other threads, where Tesla has put a new battery in and increased the estimate like this, people have reported that they demanded the original price and Tesla did it and left the new pack in there. Definitely would be a great win for you if they would do that! You might as well ask. That doesn't cost anything.

Great idea. But don't ask .... be respectful, strong and tell them you'll pay the original price. Unless you approved the extrs and got something more that you think is worth extra.

 

[ddb1001]

Add me to the list. 2013 model P85+. 48k miles. Battery and car were babied and had a recent battery inspection at Tesla last winter when MCU was upgraded. Battery died suddenly a couple months ago.

Did it die after an OTA update? Also, how often did you charge at home vs supercharging?

Going through the said bizarre process. Approved a $15k invoice for reman 85 unit. Without telling me the estimate went to $19k and now lists a 90kwh version C pack replacement.

Tesla still hasn't communicated with me yet. Very strange.

I don't want a neutered 90kwh pack that has paid upgrades and lower voltage for an extra $4000. I'll either push for a reman unit for the original price or ask them to charge me the original price for the 90 kwh battery.

That $700 charge to unlock another 5% range or whatever would really piss me off after all this crap.

There are a few threads on here that discussed similar events to yours. I think SC eventually charged for the lower quote since the owners didn't approve the higher quotes.

Tesla needs to treat it's customers better because when real competition is available there's a lot of non-fanboys that will happily switch brands and *sugar* all over Tesla for their customer service and utterly bizarre service repairs.

I'm especially bitter because I'm an oldschool Tesla guy that bought in before the Model 3 was a thing and customer service was amazing back then. Going downmarket really screwed the brand from my perspective. But I know there's a lot of happy Model 3/Y customers.

The narrative has changed from "the battery will last over 500,000 miles with no nothing to repair on the car" to "what do you expect from old technology made by a startup tech company?"

 

[Droschke]

- Copy/pasted (without quotations):

"the battery will last over 500,000 miles with no nothing to repair on the car"

in the search box, and I'm getting this:

Even if that is supposed to be paraphrasing of certain sentiments posted here, that's definitely not what Tesla has claimed for the old S85 cars.

 

[ucmndd]

The abused spouse act is getting really repetitive.