Time of Use Power Shifting for Powerwall 2

[MITE46]

Just got my two powerwalls installed last week...and without load shifting this thing is useless? Are people manually shutting off their main during the day to use their powerwalls during the day? Install an ATS in front of their ATS to simulate grid disconnect? LOL

I think I am in the boat with many others where we just want to fill it up at night for $0.10/kwh and then shave all of our peak usage during the day when it is $0.30/kwh....am I missing something here?

 

[arnolddeleon]

You can put it in "self-powered" mode and adjust the percentage reserved up and down if you have solar. Otherwise I think it's toggle the main breaker time until the software is released.

 

[MITE46]

apparently self powered mode is only available if you install the solar CTs...I have to get them to come back to do that.

Is it possible to install the solar CTs on a dummy circuit and then use that to trigger self-powered mode?

 

[dlieu]

Just got my two powerwalls installed last week...and without load shifting this thing is useless? Are people manually shutting off their main during the day to use their powerwalls during the

Exactly. Imagine the irony to pay 14k for the privilege of adding one more pain in the neck to already busy schedule...

Quoting one sitcom, Musk is not an engineer, he is a celebrity.. This whole company is full of celebrity attitudes...

 

[WannabeOwner]

the privilege of adding one more pain in the neck to already busy schedule

Nicked! Thanks

 

[zanary]

Just got my two powerwalls installed last week...and without load shifting this thing is useless?

Useless?

(1) The web site has always said that ToU Load Shifting is coming in a future firmware upgrade. The FAQ still says that. This should not be a surprise to anyone if we reviewed the web site before we agreed to the purchase (not the deposit, but the purchase).

Source URL = Powerwall FAQs

"...
What can I use Powerwall for?
Powerwall can be used for a variety of applications, including:

• Self-Powering your Home
  • With Powerwall you can use more of your solar by storing the excess energy and using it at night, which roughly doubles the amount of solar energy that directly powers your home.
• Backup Power
  • Powerwall provides seamless backup power in the event of a utility power outage. In a longer outage, Powerwall can recharge from your solar power system. If necessary, you can even run your home from solar and Powerwall indefinitely.
• Home Energy Monitoring
  • You can monitor your solar, Powerwall and home energy use in real time with the Tesla mobile app.
• Time-of-Use Load Shifting
  • If your utility offers a time-of-use rate plan, Powerwall can charge when rates are low and use that energy during expensive times to reduce your electricity bill. This feature will be available at a later date by an over-the-air update.

..."​

(2) Even without ToU, you get backup right now, so it does serve a purpose, albeit different for each person and each scenario. Some utilities have such an incredible up time, while others go down on a weekly basis. I guess it's usefulness is dependent on the person and their current power grid experiences.

 

[zanary]

Exactly. Imagine the irony to pay 14k for the privilege of adding one more pain in the neck to already busy schedule...

That's why we have kids, right

 

[zanary]

When I talked to support last night they indicated that they are hoping that it will make it out this month (Jan 2018)

arnold

I'm hearing second week of February 2018 (around the 12th) now.

 

[pdxgibby]

Keep us posted on any updates. I can't wait for TOU load shifting feature to be rolled out.

 

[Louv]

Useless?

(1) The web site has always said that ToU Load Shifting is coming in a future firmware upgrade. The FAQ still says that. This should not be a surprise to anyone if we reviewed the web site before we agreed to the purchase (not the deposit, but the purchase).
...

Not true. I took a screenshot on September 22nd (see below). It wasn't until more recently (October or November?) said that that feature was "coming later".

When I signed my contract it still said it was a feature. I was verbally warned that it wasn't done yet, but assured (by the Sales Manager on a recorded line) that the feature it would ship before my installation date.

Yes, now it says "coming later". Yes, now every time I ask, the response is that it is coming "in about 4 to 6 weeks". Their schedule keeps slipping. This isn't a surprise. Tesla never meets their shipping goals.

Whatever.

 

[zanary]

Not true. I took a screenshot on September 22nd (see below). It wasn't until more recently (October or November?) said that that feature was "coming later".

When I signed my contract it still said it was a feature. I was verbally warned that it wasn't done yet, but assured (by the Sales Manager on a recorded line) that the feature it would ship before my installation date.

Yes, now it says "coming later". Yes, now every time I ask, the response is that it is coming "in about 4 to 6 weeks". Their schedule keeps slipping. This isn't a surprise. Tesla never meets their shipping goals.

Whatever. View attachment 275532

I think that's the problem with Tesla and their method (or consistency) of communication.

When I, personally, look at spec sheets, it tells me what the hardware is capable of doing, but for me at least that does not imply that it [feature] is currently available to me at this exact time. I learned that from my Model S and Model X AP2 purchase. Just because it's EAP ready or even FSD ready, doesn't imply that it's activated on day 1; in fact it took about 12 months to get me close to my older Model S AP1 parity. I know the hardware is capable of full FSD but it's not here yet. Similar to ToU for Powerwall installs without PV, hardware is capable of handling it, but the feature is not yet available.

The FAQ that I pointed to above has said "coming with an OTA update" for ToU since early April 2017. I know that because, I was contacted by Tesla regarding my day 1 pre-order for the Powerwall which I made on Thanksgiving Day 2016 and on that day in April, I went back and reviewed the FAQ in detail.

My journey for the Powerwall and SGIP Step 2 with PG&E = Powerwall 2 "waiting list"

Again, this is more of a consistency with the delivery of a message from Tesla. I would not suspect a homeowner to review both the spec sheet and the FAQ and look for these subtle differences (ie, what it is capable of, and what it currently can do at this exact point in time).

 

[MITE46]

I think my HPWC got updated or something...they no longer charge when sending a heartbeat...i have to spend some time over the weekend to see what changed...

 

[Tim_btt]

Here in the UK I've been in contact with technical services recently and as an aside I asked how ToU was progressing. The response:

"We’ve made some significant progress on the time of use feature this week. You can expect the option to become available very soon"

I've also been added to the early adopters list so should be switched over fairly quickly after release. I'll keep you posted....

 

[jtinla]

great... yet another promise for them to break...

Exactly. The Powerwall should technically already be able to TOU shift because all that means is storing PV-produced energy in the battery during the day and discharging it to your home at night when rates are more expensive, which will be the case in 2022 for NEM 1.0 solar customers and is imminent for NEM 2.0 solar customers. Isn't that simply consumer self supply? So why can't the Powerwall currently do that without the promised OTA update in the future? I think it's because the Powerwall really can't ever discharge to the grid because the utility doesn't allow it, and Tesla is trying to figure out how to tweak the Powerwall and working with the utilities to get this done. Then they'll be able to TOU shift by truly arbitrage by discharging back to the grid at peak rates. Could be a long time before they get that worked out. There's a company out there called JLM Energy whose batteries already do this and have built-in tariffs so it can automatically respond to future utility rate changes.

 

[cwied]

Exactly. The Powerwall should technically already be able to TOU shift because all that means is storing PV-produced energy in the battery during the day and discharging it to your home at night when rates are more expensive,

You're missing the case where you charge the battery at night when rates are cheap and then discharge it to offset your house's load when the rates are higher. This is still a type of arbitrage even if you can't take advantage of the PowerWall's full capacity (although you might get close if you have an A/C on the backup). Whether Tesla will eventually allow this to happen or not is not clear, but I don't think they've ruled it out yet.

 

[jtinla]

You're missing the case where you charge the battery at night when rates are cheap and then discharge it to offset your house's load when the rates are higher. This is still a type of arbitrage even if you can't take advantage of the PowerWall's full capacity (although you might get close if you have an A/C on the backup). Whether Tesla will eventually allow this to happen or not is not clear, but I don't think they've ruled it out yet.

True that's a type of arbitrage, but how do you charge the battery at night? You cannot do this. Are you actually doing this? That means you're charging from the grid, right? My thinking is that the very reason PW can't export to the grid to actually make money from stored power is because it can charge from the grid in cases like you suggest. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[cwied]

True that's a type of arbitrage, but how do you charge the battery at night? You cannot do this. Are you actually doing this? That means you're charging from the grid, right? My thinking is that the very reason PW can't export to the grid to actually make money from stored power is because it can charge from the grid in cases like you suggest. Maybe I'm missing something?

The Powerwall is currently programmed not to charge from the grid when PV is installed, but I haven't heard any definitive statement that this would always be disallowed. The only restriction I've heard clearly stated is that they are not allowed to discharge into the grid. Obviously when a Powerwall is installed for backup without a PV system, it has to be able to charge from the grid, so it would only be regulations that stop Tesla from allowing this.

 

[jtinla]

This is what I thought, it's regulations that prevent it. You're right about ability to charge from the grid because, as you state, when PV is not present and used for backup only the PW must charge from the grid. This is the reason they cannot export to the grid.

Other companies have batteries that can TOU shift by using stored PV-generated power AND by discharging into the grid, making more $ per kWh at peak hours 4PM-9PM. Pretty cool.

 

[ohmman]

The Powerwall is currently programmed not to charge from the grid when PV is installed, but I haven't heard any definitive statement that this would always be disallowed. The only restriction I've heard clearly stated is that they are not allowed to discharge into the grid. Obviously when a Powerwall is installed for backup without a PV system, it has to be able to charge from the grid, so it would only be regulations that stop Tesla from allowing this.

This brings up a good question. What if my power is out in December for a week, and it's overcast the entire time? I'll need grid power to charge my Powerwall for overnight power usage. I wonder how they can handle that situation without interfering with whatever the NEM agreement is that's causing this.

 

[MP3Mike]

What if my power is out in December for a week, and it's overcast the entire time? I'll need grid power to charge my Powerwall for overnight power usage. I wonder how they can handle that situation without interfering with whatever the NEM agreement is that's causing this.

Well if your power is out the grid is down and you can't charge right? What am I missing? If the grid is up you don't need to charge your Powerwall...