Tips and Best Practices for buying from Dealers or Manheim Auctions?

[Fragger]

Hi Guys,

I have separate thread on here as well for a specific Model S, but the more I learned, the more questions I got . I seem to have the itch to get back into a Model S and am finding some interesting inventory with deals to be made with dealers and a friend with access to Manheim auctions.

I was wondering if you guys can share your best practices, tips and tricks y'all have learned to check, validate what features are included with the car and MOST importantly, the BEST way to make sure the features stay ON after the purchase and ownership is attained from the dealers?

For example, I have a dealer with a car that shows its got FSD and Premium Connectivity on the infotainment screen. However, I don't think the guy ever opened a Tesla account for himself after getting the car from an auction. I ran a VIN check on the car through the ev-cpo site and looks like it even had SC01 (FUSC) on it.

So in this case, what do you guys think would be the steps to verify and RETAIN these features if I buy the car?

Similar question for cars found on Manheim?


I hope my question makes sense and I am sure dozens of people have gone through this scenario on this board. I just couldn't find a central place where this was documented and especially verified to be true recently.

As always, appreciate all the knowledge! Thank you all!

 

[Fragger]

New Year's Bump !

 

[vcor]

Exciting looking at getting an S! Just a couple of notes:

1) The VIN itself does not encode if a car has FSD or FUSC. Not sure if there is some database of additional information linked from the VIN that you are using or how trustworthy that database is. Generally, cars sold before 17-Jan-2017 include transferable FUSC.

2) Be aware that if Tesla buys a car (i.e. trade-in) and sells it via the auction, FSD is usually removed, and FUSC may be removed (less clear on FUSC). Since they own the car at that point, they can elect to change if these features are on the car. Dealers may also buy such a car from an auction and not understand the changes that were made. I believe Tesla will make clear at the auction what features are included, but do not assume they are included, even if the original car had them. If you do buy from a dealer or auction, I'd get a written confirmation that the car has FSD and/or FUSC if they claim it does. If the car was originally sold after 17-Jan-2017, you will not get FUSC no matter where it came from.

Good luck and happy hunting!

 

[ucmndd]

The great majority of auction cars are trades or lease returns to Tesla. You won’t keep any software features on those cars if Tesla doesn’t want you to. In most cases they’re already “gone”, the car just hasn’t updated yet to reflect it.

No amount of account trickery is gonna change that.

 

[Fragger]

Thank you both for your responses. Very helpful!

So, aside from the good information you guys shared, one of my hopes for the thread was to see if people would come forward and share their actual experiences where they were able to successfully transfer these features and if so, what tips/advice they had to follow, if that makes sense ?

But based on what @ucmndd is saying, is it safe to say that these dealer, Manheim auction cars would virtually never survive these features for someone like me?

From this thread, I learned that get something in writing from Tesla at the auction... What would be this documentation? Just something written in writing? Or something more standard?

The other nugget I picked up, was that only the Tesla auctions and/or Tesla trade-ins where they owned the car is what triggers these feature redactions. Seems like other auctions may be OK?


Sorry if I'm all over the place guys... Just learning .

 

[vcor]

Thank you both for your responses. Very helpful!

So, aside from the good information you guys shared, one of my hopes for the thread was to see if people would come forward and share their actual experiences where they were able to successfully transfer these features and if so, what tips/advice they had to follow, if that makes sense ?

But based on what @ucmndd is saying, is it safe to say that these dealer, Manheim auction cars would virtually never survive these features for someone like me?

From this thread, I learned that get something in writing from Tesla at the auction... What would be this documentation? Just something written in writing? Or something more standard?

The other nugget I picked up, was that only the Tesla auctions and/or Tesla trade-ins where they owned the car is what triggers these feature redactions. Seems like other auctions may be OK?


Sorry if I'm all over the place guys... Just learning .

My advice is to assume all auction/dealer sales do not include FSD or FUSC. It may be possible a private party sold a Tesla via an auction, but I bet that's less than 1% of the sales. I don't think it's easy to find out who the seller is. I'm not aware that Tesla will provide anything in writing either. If you can absolutely confirm your car was never passed through Tesla as a used vehicle, then yes, you retain FSD or FUSC if the car has it. Anyway, buyer beware! And if a dealer claims the car has FSD or FUSC, get it in writing along with how they will compensate you if the features are missing or removed. That big savings you think you are getting may be a phantom. I'd trust private party sales a lot more.

 

[Fragger]

My advice is to assume all auction/dealer sales do not include FSD or FUSC. It may be possible a private party sold a Tesla via an auction, but I bet that's less than 1% of the sales. I don't think it's easy to find out who the seller is. I'm not aware that Tesla will provide anything in writing either. If you can absolutely confirm your car was never passed through Tesla as a used vehicle, then yes, you retain FSD or FUSC if the car has it. Anyway, buyer beware! And if a dealer claims the car has FSD or FUSC, get it in writing along with how they will compensate you if the features are missing or removed. That big savings you think you are getting may be a phantom. I'd trust private party sales a lot more.

What a bummer, but the world we live in, I guess woof!

Do you guys have any tips on what to ask dealers to check if Tesla ever took possession of the car after the original purchase?

Thank you all!

 

[lightningltd]

Another couple of things about auctions...
If Tesla took possession then sent it to auction, then it likely also has Lifetime supercharging removed (if appplicable).
Also, many of the cars at auction could have been listed as salvage or written off as a total loss. If that's the case, good luck with Tesla on parts, service and supercharging.

 

[Fragger]

Another couple of things about auctions...
If Tesla took possession then sent it to auction, then it likely also has Lifetime supercharging removed (if appplicable).
Also, many of the cars at auction could have been listed as salvage or written off as a total loss. If that's the case, good luck with Tesla on parts, service and supercharging.

This is interesting, couple of follow up questions:

1. Even if the dealer bought it from an auction, Tesla included, if the feature survives and is showing up on their lot, do you think the car is still not out if the woodworks?

2. If the car were salvage title or something, wouldn't it show up on Carfax? Is there anything on the MCU or screen that show if the car is not blacklisted and still serviceable with Tesla?

Thank you for all your help!

 

[WallysRide]

This is interesting, couple of follow up questions:

1. Even if the dealer bought it from an auction, Tesla included, if the feature survives and is showing up on their lot, do you think the car is still not out if the woodworks?

2. If the car were salvage title or something, wouldn't it show up on Carfax? Is there anything on the MCU or screen that show if the car is not blacklisted and still serviceable with Tesla?

Thank you for all your help!

1. If the dealer bought it from a Tesla auction (after a trade-in to Tesla), the stripping of the features is most likely going to happen after you purchase it and register it to your own Tesla account. Sorry, this is just the way it happens, I don't think there's any point in trying to get around this.

2. If the dealer is reputable, they're not going to be selling you a salvaged vehicle. I don't think you really have to worry about this if you feel comfortable with the dealer's reputation. Tesla auctions off all trade-ins that it can't easily sell directly.

 

[Fragger]

1. If the dealer bought it from a Tesla auction (after a trade-in to Tesla), the stripping of the features is most likely going to happen after you purchase it and register it to your own Tesla account. Sorry, this is just the way it happens, I don't think there's any point in trying to get around this.

2. If the dealer is reputable, they're not going to be selling you a salvaged vehicle. I don't think you really have to worry about this if you feel comfortable with the dealer's reputation. Tesla auctions off all trade-ins that it can't easily sell directly.

Thanks for the helpful response. You know, it's one thing that Tesla rips all these features off... Meaning, it could be argued it's wrong or a controversial practice, at best. However, to add insult to injury, why do they not just take the features away before selling to the dealer? Why does the end consumer, end up, holding the bag, so to speak? Sounds, extra crummy! Especially since most dealers are not even educated enough about Teslas to warn the customer. Like, look at this listing for example... How is this dealer selling the car with FUSC and Self Driving?

2016 Model S P100D FULL SELF DRIVE FREE UNLIMITED SUPERCHARGING | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2016 Model S P100D FULL SELF DRIVE FREE UNLIMITED SUPERCHARGING at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[OldPro]

Hi Guys,

I have separate thread on here as well for a specific Model S, but the more I learned, the more questions I got . I seem to have the itch to get back into a Model S and am finding some interesting inventory with deals to be made with dealers and a friend with access to Manheim auctions.

I was wondering if you guys can share your best practices, tips and tricks y'all have learned to check, validate what features are included with the car and MOST importantly, the BEST way to make sure the features stay ON after the purchase and ownership is attained from the dealers?

For example, I have a dealer with a car that shows its got FSD and Premium Connectivity on the infotainment screen. However, I don't think the guy ever opened a Tesla account for himself after getting the car from an auction. I ran a VIN check on the car through the ev-cpo site and looks like it even had SC01 (FUSC) on it.

So in this case, what do you guys think would be the steps to verify and RETAIN these features if I buy the car?

Similar question for cars found on Manheim?


I hope my question makes sense and I am sure dozens of people have gone through this scenario on this board. I just couldn't find a central place where this was documented and especially verified to be true recently.

As always, appreciate all the knowledge! Thank you all!

Tesla has used vehicles available, yes?

 

[ucmndd]

However, to add insult to injury, why do they not just take the features away before selling to the dealer?

Incompetence.

Like, look at this listing for example... How is this dealer selling the car with FUSC and Self Driving?

2016 Model S P100D FULL SELF DRIVE FREE UNLIMITED SUPERCHARGING | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2016 Model S P100D FULL SELF DRIVE FREE UNLIMITED SUPERCHARGING at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

If the ownership history of that car does not involve Tesla at any point after the initial sale, it will most definitely retain those features.

 

[Fragger]

Incompetence.

If the ownership history of that car does not involve Tesla at any point after the initial sale, it will most definitely retain those features.

I see, so I guess to track ownership history, the dealer would have to look at the title history? I'd imagine this is not fool proof, either because once the title goes to a different State, it may omit some key details?

What documentation can you think of to ensure retention of these features? And while at the dealer's what actions/steps can you recommend to test those features are available, mainly FSD and FUSC? Is going to the Tesla Supercharging station the only way to check FUSC, without them having the car added to their Tesla account?

Thank you, as always!

 

[TwistedGray]

You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be!

Get the VIN number, make a friend at Tesla, and they can run the VIN number in their system to tell you whether or not you're going to get free supercharging. If it has free supercharging, you're getting whatever else it has (premium connectivity usually and whatever autopilot).

Also worth noting, some features that were paid for will stay regardless such as the cold weather package, Ludicrous mode, and similar. Another interesting thing is that the car may not have free supercharging but have free connectivity. Strange logic.

Anyways, you want your friend to tell you if it has the supercharging code: SC01. That is the only code that allows for free unlimited supercharging. What you want to pay very close attention to is whether or not it has a red asterisks (*) after it. If it does, free supercharging will be stripped. I'm not as familiar with full self-driving in terms of whether it gets stripped or not because most of the cars that have free unlimited supercharging don't have full self-driving. That's pretty rare.

And to clarify, when free supercharging stopped, it was April 1st, 2017. If you took delivery on or after that date, the free supercharging would never transfer.

 

[gaswalla]

Above post is spot on and very useful to those willing to read it a few times and understand.
Also, for the entrepreneurs out there, there is a growing demand for cars for FUSC as energy costs continue to escalate.. if you find a source to check the Tesla database, you create an information asymmetry in that you know a car will retain FUSC and FSD but others don't... hence, you can purchase said vehicles at market and sell at premium. Just takes someone on the inside to help out

 

[TwistedGray]

Just takes someone on the inside to help out

Exactly that, but I found out quick enough that If you just call, they'll answer. When Tesla had the chat support set up, you could get answers that way as well, but I don't think that's operational anymore

 

[Fragger]

@TwistedGray you know I've appreciated your wisdom and guidance through this whole thing and am still depending on your friend's help.

Your advice, indeed is spot on, trouble is:

1. Some people like me have struck out with a few service centers. One of them said that there is an inspection/certification process that the dealers can choose to run with Tesla to get the included feature codes. This stuck home and seems to be on brand with Tesla squeezing all they can to monetize things.

2. I tried to approach my Tesla contacts during the Solar install. All of them said they don't know anyone in car sales/service they could connect me with. I'm not sure if the Tesla corporate/tech employees have this access, so not sure I can hit up my LinkedIn either . So to summarize, we'd love that friend... Just hard to land one .

As always, I appreciate your time and help!

 

[sairambabloooo]

Anyone with Manheim access willing to help me buy a model Y. TIA

 

[TwistedGray]

@TwistedGray you know I've appreciated your wisdom and guidance through this whole thing and am still depending on your friend's help.

Your advice, indeed is spot on, trouble is:

1. Some people like me have struck out with a few service centers. One of them said that there is an inspection/certification process that the dealers can choose to run with Tesla to get the included feature codes. This stuck home and seems to be on brand with Tesla squeezing all they can to monetize things.

2. I tried to approach my Tesla contacts during the Solar install. All of them said they don't know anyone in car sales/service they could connect me with. I'm not sure if the Tesla corporate/tech employees have this access, so not sure I can hit up my LinkedIn either . So to summarize, we'd love that friend... Just hard to land one .

As always, I appreciate your time and help!

1. We know working with Tesla (on any product) can be a nightmare in trying to tease out information from them. Dealers willing to pony up the money to provide the best service for their clients are the dealers you'd want to work with. It would be great if there were some kind of directory of dealers that have access to this information, but good luck with that, lol.

2. Yeah, there is no overlap. The 'solar' and 'powerwall' teams don't even overlap...