Tire wear and lowering M3P

[tcpilot]

Just throwing my $0.02 in here, I have a 2020 M3P with the MPP Sport Coilover suspension. I also have MPP camber & toe arms on the rear, running 275/30/20 on the rear. Up front I'm running stock tires on aftermarket 9" wide wheels. The car is lowered as far as my shop (The Driveway in San Jose, CA) would sensibly allow me to go. My rears are fabulous and are wearing sensibly & evenly.

My fronts wore excessively on the inner edge and required replacement after about 15k miles. My camber up front was roughly -1.8 degrees. I added a set of MPP UCA's and LCA bushings and now the camber is around -1.2 degrees. I still expect the fronts to wear more than stock, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make since my car handles incredibly well now.

I will assume that lowering the car is going to cause issues with front tire wear, it's just to what degree (ha ha), and is somewhat controllable with MPP's components.

Pic attached for reference. This was right after I had the suspension done, it's actually settled a teeny bit since then.

Cheers,

/TCP

 

[gearchruncher]

My camber up front was roughly -1.8 degrees.

Most Model 3's have rear camber around this value, so I'd make sure your front toe isn't toed out if you're getting inside wear.

running 275/30/20 on the rear. Up front I'm running stock tires on aftermarket 9" wide wheels.

What's the reason for the much wider tires in the rear?

 

[tcpilot]

Most Model 3's have rear camber around this value, so I'd make sure your front toe isn't toed out if you're getting inside wear.


What's the reason for the much wider tires in the rear?

Hi @gearchruncher,

I had a very detailed alignment done last Friday after the UCA's went in and the car is right in spec for everything. It's a bit of a surprise as I've heard some passing comments here & elsewhere that even stock M3P's eat front tires somewhat rapidly. I don't know how this can be a design flaw, it seems to me that all of these issues would be fixable with correct alignment .

Regarding the staggered setup, I came from a staggered setup car (2012 Cadillac CTS-V Wagon) and I liked how it hooked up. Of course that car was RWD only so not exactly apples to apples...but the M3P does seem to grab better. In addition....I like the look.

/TCP

 

[clerks]

Bumping this. Miserable experience today. Took my 1 inch lowered car to a shop that absolutely claimed they could align a M3P. Well they keep the car for an hour, claimed the front camber was way out of whack but that they couldn’t figure out how to adjust it. They said take it to tesla. They offered me no specs.

So I’m back to square one. My inside tire wear is excessive. So should I take it to tesla or try someplace else? I mean I’m willing to accept some wear in exchange for being lowered but this is more than that. Help would be appreciated. This is becoming a pia.

 

[DFW_MVP]

Take it somewhere else (not Tesla).

 

[gearchruncher]

Well they keep the car for an hour, claimed the front camber was way out of whack but that they couldn’t figure out how to adjust it.

The front camber isn't adjustable more than a tenth or two. There's no point in taking it in for an alignment beyond toe if that is your goal until you get adjustable arms.

 

[clerks]

The front camber isn't adjustable more than a tenth or two. There's no point in taking it in for an alignment beyond toe if that is your goal until you get adjustable arms.

This was my next question. The front camber can’t possibly be that far out of whack on a 1 inch lower car right? So shouldn’t I just ask them to get everything else as dialed in as possible? To my knowledge adjustable arms are not needed on the front of an m3p that is lowered an inch.

 

[Motion122]

This was my next question. The front camber can’t possibly be that far out of whack on a 1 inch lower car right? So shouldn’t I just ask them to get everything else as dialed in as possible? To my knowledge adjustable arms are not needed on the front of an m3p that is lowered an inch.

1" lowering is pretty much the threshold. Lowering my M3P about 1" upfront net me around -1.4 of camber. With zero toe there is no abnormal tire wear. I added UP AFUA for adjustable caster and in the process I purposely added another .2 of camber just to see when I'll start to see camber wear(I do lots of 250 mile highway trips).

How is your toe? Toe can wear tires faster than you think.

 

[907tracer]

Bumping this. Miserable experience today. Took my 1 inch lowered car to a shop that absolutely claimed they could align a M3P. Well they keep the car for an hour, claimed the front camber was way out of whack but that they couldn’t figure out how to adjust it. They said take it to tesla. They offered me no specs.

So I’m back to square one. My inside tire wear is excessive. So should I take it to tesla or try someplace else? I mean I’m willing to accept some wear in exchange for being lowered but this is more than that. Help would be appreciated. This is becoming a pia.

Here's the specs tesla used for my alignment the other day. They were for a 2020 but should be close.

 

[DFW_MVP]

Here's the specs tesla used for my alignment the other day. They were for a 2020 but should be close.

That's after alignment? I would've wanted the toe on the right side to match the toe on the left.

 

[Motion122]

That's after alignment? I would've wanted the toe on the right side to match the toe on the left.

Yikes! I certainly hope that was before and not after.

 

[DFW_MVP]

Yikes! I certainly hope that was before and not after.

The icon on the bottom right of the pic says "alignment complete"

 

[907tracer]

That's after alignment? I would've wanted the toe on the right side to match the toe on the left.

That's before. The after didn't have the recommended specs on it.

 

[907tracer]

Here's the specs tesla used for my alignment the other day. They were for a 2020 but should be close.

This is the before and after, they just didn't show any recommended specs on this printout. They pretty much just adjust toe though, which I was fine with me, everything else I had already done at home as much as I could. I may try to adjust to for a little less negative camber in front though now that I know recommended ft camber is -.75 max. The specs I had dug up on this forum earlier were for a RWD, I think, and showed -1 as the upper tolerance for front camber. I was able to get the drivers side below -1* @ ~30mm drop and I'm pretty sure I can squeeze out a little more to get them closer to spec or at least both below -1.

 

[clerks]

Does anyone have specs for an awd m3p they could post?

 

[Occhis]

Does anyone have specs for an awd m3p they could post?

 

[PwrdByHydro]

So I have a stock 2022 M3P, just rotated the tires at 7500 miles and I am seeing 2/32's wear on the inside OF ALL 4 TIRES. WTF... I know that I do a lot of hwy driving but I thought I was past this negative camber garbage with a "stock" car. I love my M3P but I was really hoping for decently even tire wear. I will accept 20k out of a tire that I drive hard, but at this rate I am looking at 15k to replace tires... I have an appointment with Tesla of Bend in 2 days, I really hope they can align the car better than the factory. The fact that this is not covered under warranty is a little bit BS. Is it possible to dial out camber from an M3P without an aftermarket adjustment kit from someone like Mountain Pass Performance, all I see on their site is for the rear anyways, nothing for front camber adjustments.

 

[gearchruncher]

I thought I was past this negative camber garbage with a "stock" car.

Why are you so sure this is due to lots of camber? The model 3 has hardly any camber, and it's not adjustable beyond about 0.25 degrees stock.

I will accept 20k out of a tire that I drive hard,

Lots of us would be happy to get 20K- that's just life with a 500HP, 4000LB car. You're expecting too much. If you drive it hard, expect less.

It is worth checking toe- toe out can cause inner tire wear. But what you really need to do is just get lower performance tires.

 

[tm1v2]

So I have a stock 2022 M3P, just rotated the tires at 7500 miles and I am seeing 2/32's wear on the inside OF ALL 4 TIRES. WTF... I know that I do a lot of hwy driving but I thought I was past this negative camber garbage with a "stock" car. I love my M3P but I was really hoping for decently even tire wear. I will accept 20k out of a tire that I drive hard, but at this rate I am looking at 15k to replace tires... I have an appointment with Tesla of Bend in 2 days, I really hope they can align the car better than the factory. The fact that this is not covered under warranty is a little bit BS. Is it possible to dial out camber from an M3P without an aftermarket adjustment kit from someone like Mountain Pass Performance, all I see on their site is for the rear anyways, nothing for front camber adjustments.

@PwrdByHydro As @gearchruncher said there's no way you have too much camber stock, unless your car has been in a wreck or something.

What is very likely is Tesla delivered you the car with too much toe. Have you ever gotten it aligned?

I would NOT pay Tesla to align it. Their alignment spec allows for too much toe, and they'll probably rush through it without taking the time to get everything as even as possible side-to-side. Get it aligned at an independent shop.

I disagree with @gearchruncher on one thing - your short tire life has nothing to do with driving hard. Not when it's the inside tread that's most worn. That's from toe-out or negative camber...and since your car is stock, it pretty much has to be from toe-out, I think.

The stock Pirellis are only 280TW, so 7.5k miles is not shocking depending on usage, but I think excessive inside wear has to be from bad alignment.

 

[MasterC17]

Echoing the two above me, but to be clear, camber doesn't really start to negatively affect tire wear until you surpass the roughly 2 degree mark.

Tesla's factory specs call for quite a bit of rear end toe-in which is good for high speed stability but bad for tire wear. I imagine from their perspective, this is an acceptable compromise.