TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

TM Bulletin Board Response to Why No Perf Credit for 19" Wheels?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by JakeP, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,816
    Location:
    Wexford, PA
    A new Bulletin Board entry provides the official TM response to the question "Why isn't there a credit for 19" wheels in the performance package?"

    Why isn wheels in the Performance Package? | Forums | Tesla Motors

    Here is the text:

    **************

    WHY ISN'T THERE A CREDIT FOR 19" WHEELS IN THE PERFORMANCE PACKAGE?
    [email protected].. | NOVEMBER 24, 2012
    The Performance Package was priced assuming a 19" wheel. Here is how we arrived at Performance pricing:

    Base 85 kWh Model S $77,400
    Performance Drive Unit $10,000
    Upgraded Interior and Treatments $3,500
    Active Air Suspension $1,500
    Total $92,400
    The $10,000 Performance Drive unit includes upgraded drive components, hardware and software.

    The $3,500 Upgraded Interior includes all items in the $1,500 Nappa Leather Interior package, plus an Alcantara headliner ($1,900 on a Porsche Panamera), additional leather treatments and Alcantara seat bolsters ($600), Carbon Fiber décor option ($500 on Audi S7), and contrast color piping on seats ($200). This package rolls up to between $4,200 and $4,700 (depending upon if you choose the Carbon Fiber Décor on not), but was included in the Performance Package at $3,500.

    The $92,400 price assumed a 19" wheel. However, we wanted our very early reservation holders to have the option to choose their favorite wheel as part of the Performance Package at no additional cost.

    ***************

    To say the least, this explanation would seem to be at odds with the fact that the 21" wheel and its corresponding high-performance tires seemed to be designed for and/or were specific to the Performance version, not to mention that the grey 21s were originally exclusive to the performance version.

    Does anyone else find this explanation implausible, or at least problematic?
     
  2. strider

    strider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,918
    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    #2 strider, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
    What it says to me is that the perf is a bargain and people should stop whining. $10k for a 20% improvement in 0-60 is unheard of in the industry and the 21's are free. Get the 21's and sell them to a non-perf for some $$.
     
  3. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,552
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I wish there was some way to get the upgraded interior as a stand-alone option. I typically buy my cars fully loaded except for any performance package. I like the MSP interior upgrades, but have no interest in the upgraded drive train components, and the 19" wheels are fine with me. Usually performance package upgrades have nothing to do with more luxurious interiors.
     
  4. Botbldr45

    Botbldr45 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    513
    Location:
    Sedona, Az
    Well said Strider ....... Well said!!
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,752
    Location:
    Texas
    +1 I dislike that some things are tied to performance that have nothing to do with performance.
     
  6. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,552
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Agreed. Didn't mean to come across as saying the Performance upgrade isn't a deal, just wish I could get the interior upgrades by themselves.
     
  7. Tommy

    Tommy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    880
    Location:
    The great OC
    And for those wondering where the pending price increase will be, they only need to read TM's response to include the 21" wheel as a no cost option for early reservationists to realize the option going forward at some point will not be free.
     
  8. dailydriver

    dailydriver Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    Naperville IL, USA
    That would be my interpretation too.
     
  9. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,816
    Location:
    Wexford, PA
    #9 JakeP, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
    My interpretation is that the Perf is a bargain, and Tesla has realized that it was too much of a bargain based on the high demand, and will be increasing the gap in price to get to a Perf. And they posted this "explanation" in order to justify adding $3500 to the Perf price. I made the call before this BB item was released in the Price Increase thread that the Perf gap would be the first thing to increase, based on Elon's comments on the earnings call.

    They wanted to give their early reservation-placers a "free" $3500 upgrade to 21" *performance* wheels, which were otherwise not intended to be part of the Perf package, out of the goodness of their hearts? You would have to be an utter naïf to take this at face value.

    Whether or not the Perf is a bargain is irrelevant to my post, which instead questions the veracity and motivation for this BB response. If this is the actual truth behind the lack of 19" downgrade credit on the Perf, then I owe Tesla a big apology. But I am highly skeptical of this explanation, especially considering the timing of its release.
     
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,589
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    This is my interpretation too. The "official one" is a bit of revisionist history.

    If the "official" reason were the true one then they would simply have made the Performance standard with the 19" and made the 21" the option, but it was several weeks, at least, after announcing the Perf before they made the 19" an option.

    Now, does the official reason make sense...sure. And as others have said, I think the Perf is a bargain, but I don't believe for a second they were thinking "let's give these early adopters a gift"...if that had been the reasoning they would have offered the 21" free on ALL models with the 19" a no-charge option. What 'gift' have they given us 3.75 years+ reservation holders? No free paint color option (would have been DIRT cheap for them to offer), no free maintenance (which would have been darn considerate considering the likely number of minor issues we're going to encounter in a first year early production model).

    I have no complaints about the price or lack of 'discount' for choosing a non-standard option, but I don't think making up an excuse is a good idea, particularly when it doesn't really make sense.
     
  11. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    +1 This is what I often do. Luxuries/technology for me. Standard performance is fine.
     
  12. Vger

    Vger Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,682
    Location:
    Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
    I hear you. I ultimately decided to upgrade to the (Signature) Performance, and I will admit that 50% of the reason was not the acceleration performance (I have a Roadster after all), but the delicious interior.
     
  13. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,816
    Location:
    Wexford, PA
    Thanks EFusco, I am glad to see I am not the only one for whom this explanation raises an eyebrow. Your point about the 19" wheels not even being offered on the Perf at first is highly significant. And until very recently, the 21" wheels were actually named 21" Performance Grey and 21" Performance Silver, compared to 19" Standard. Now the wheels are just called 19", 21" Grey and 21" Silver. Revisionist history, indeed.
     
  14. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,850
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I'm not sure that is exactly right. I believe the grey was "performance" originally, and the silver was not. ???
     
  15. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,817
    One would have to be a fool to believe that BS explanation. I would rather hear the truth, even if brutal, than some blatant lie.
     
  16. contaygious

    contaygious Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,001
    Location:
    Marina, San Francisco
    So glad I got performance. really is a bargain compared to other cars.
     
  17. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    So if you think the performance package is a bargain, doesn't that in itself already support the given explanation?
     
  18. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,816
    Location:
    Wexford, PA
    Again, in my opinion, whether or not the Perf is bargain has nothing to do with the reason for zero differential in price between two wheel styles that are clearly and repeatedly distinguished in price (in both the Standard Model and when purchased individually in the Tesla shop).

    I really don't see much supporting this explanation, as it seems internally flawed and self-contradictory. It seems to insinuate that the 21" wheels weren't even designed for the Perf, when this is glaringly obvious even now in the design studio, where the grey 21s are the default on the Perf, and the 19s are the default on the Standard. And quoting other manufacturer upgrade costs for similar items is completely odd here as well...Tesla can charge whatever they want for any given option, they need no justification. The question has always been one of perception, in that the downgrade to 19s assumed you were paying or something (21" wheels) that you weren't getting. For Tesla now to say "you were never paying for those 21" wheels, just because we wanted to give you something or free", seems way too pat. Particularly when it simultaneously can be used to justify a $2900-$3500 price increase for the Perf model.

    This line in particular strikes me as utterly false: "The $92,400 price assumed a 19" wheel. However, we wanted our very early reservation holders to have the option to choose their favorite wheel as part of the Performance Package at no additional cost." To put it in parlance, I call utter BS on this, as the Perf was clearly designed with the 21s in mind, and vice versa...and I have had several Tesla employees tell me that verbatim (only verbally, unfortunately). Maybe if they had said "we decided to waive the $3500 upgrade to 21" wheels as incentive to upgrade to the Perf Model" it would sound more believable...but wanting customers to be able to "choose their favorite wheel"...spare me. If this was true, why not do the same for all early reservation holders, including non-Perf configurations?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Even now, the Options and Pricing Page says this of the Perf models:

    19"
    All season tires
    NO COST OPTION

    21" Silver
    High performance tires
    NO COST OPTION

    21" Grey
    High performance tires
    STANDARD

    This means that the 21" grey wheel was the intended, standard wheel for the Perf...not some available option we could choose at no cost if it was our favorite. Perhaps Tesla priced the Perf with the cost of these wheels included, perhaps they did not. Personally, I think the $10,000 differential included the High Performance inverter, sport tuned suspension, and the 21" wheels. And now Tesla realizes they can ask $13, 15 or even 20K instead, and so will raise the price accordingly.
     
  19. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    The price assumes a 19" wheel simply because the price calculation starts with the price for a "Base 85 kWh Model" which happens to have 19" wheels.
     
  20. Tommy

    Tommy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    880
    Location:
    The great OC
    #20 Tommy, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
    The Performance with 19" wheels should be able to do the 0-60 in 4.6 if indeed the car was always based on those wheels being standard. If not, I do see a credibility issue with Tesla's explanation.
     

Share This Page