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TM3 Ludicrous != 2.8 sec?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by DaDr00, Mar 28, 2017.

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  1. DaDr00

    DaDr00 Member

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    Given some of the recent speculations being thrown around regarding the Model 3 will not be as fast as the Model S. I had a pondering; we know that Elon tweeted that the Tesla Model 3 will have Ludicrous mode ... but he didn't state specifically that it could do 0-60MPH in 2.8 sec.

    • Could this mean that Ludicrous mode is ambiguous to model platforms?
    • Meaning that TM3 Ludicrous mode would not be the same as Tesla Model S Ludicrous mode?
    • Is there something that has been said from Elon that would indicate this would be true?
    • Has someone math'd it out based on battery size, assumed weight, and possible motor size?
    • When will Spaceballs 2 be released?

    Just thought I would lodge this internal conversation to the best speculators that I know on the subject.

    :D
     
  2. Boourns

    Boourns Member

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    Ludicrous is not the same in the X and S, so I don't see why it would be the same in the 3. Elon also specifically said the 3 will be slower than the S.
     
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  3. DaDr00

    DaDr00 Member

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    True, not exactly 2.8s ... but 2.9s for something 5,300lbs is still quite amazing. Do we think that the TM3 will be sub-3s?
     
  4. tsla007

    tsla007 Member

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    model 3 l version will probably have a time of 3.3sec for 0-60. No 2's ever. 2s are for S.
     
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  5. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    #5 S'toon, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    Sigh. Musk specifically said that the 3 will be slower than the S because the S' bigger battery provides more power.

    He also stated:
    “Model S will always be the fastest Tesla until next gen Roadster, which is a few years away.”

    I find it interesting how people continue to project their fantasies onto the Model 3, when Musk has specifically said it's a slower and smaller S.
     
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  6. samsonm3

    samsonm3 Member

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    If you read Elons Tweets

    He said Model S will be the fastest because bigger battery, Until next gen roadster which will be the fastest Tesla.

    My conclusion and what I infer is, Elon could have said Model X will be faster if Model 3 wasnt a sub 3 sec car.

    I think 0-60 times for near future teslas.
    Official numbers

    Model X ------ 2.9 sec
    Model 3 ------ 2.7 sec
    Model S ------ 2.5 sec
    Model R ------ 2.3 sec

    The youtube channel " Engineering mechanics or something" came up with the theoretical max grip acceleration for street legal tires is approximately 2.2 sec 0-60

    So seems logical to me.


    P.S --- BTW this is my first comment on TMC
     
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  7. Ltespd

    Ltespd Member

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    #7 Ltespd, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    No 2's ever for the M3. You don't know that. The Model S has already hit 2.3 0-60. So a 2.9 0-60 M3 is possible and still slower than a Model S.
     
  8. EXOTIC1

    EXOTIC1 Member

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    i posted two weeks week there wouldn't be a P variation M3 that will do 0-60 in under 3.50 and a turn 1/4 mile time under 11.75
    released in the next 18 months and i'll double down on that:)
     
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  9. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    It's not even the same in the S and the S. P85DL and P90DL V1 = 458KW. P90DL V2 = 511KW. P100DL = 576KW.
     
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  10. samsonm3

    samsonm3 Member

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    This will be Tesla's lineup. Remember At Tesla they don't make slow cars.

    0-60mph times

    Tesla Pickup. 3.3s
    Model Y. 3.1s
    Model X. 2.9s
    Model 3. 2.7s
    Model S. 2.5s
    Roadster 2.3s

    Elon talks in ciphers you have to break the code.

    It has always been S,3,X,Y from the beginning. Refute that
     
  11. Nb1277

    Nb1277 Member

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    Exactly. The P100DL 0-60 is 2.5s soooo....
     
  12. EinSV

    EinSV Active Member

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    Welcome to TMC @samsonm3!

    This seems like a good guesstimate to me. Personally, I would adjust by 0.2 seconds for the Easter Egg (e.g., 2.3 seconds for Model S). Plus there will be some improvement by next year this time and more by the time Model Y and Pickup come out.

    I would be very surprised if the P75D Model 3 is not under 3 seconds 0-60.
     
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  13. zenmaster

    zenmaster Member

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    Fixed that for ya.
     
  14. Sasmania

    Sasmania Member

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    Sorry, but if it's not under 3 seconds, I don't see how it gets the "Ludicrous" label. Insane maybe, but not L...
     
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  15. strider

    strider Active Member

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    I hope the 3P75DL is under 3 but I don't think that's a requirement for Ludicrous. L just denotes the fastest version of that model like RS in Audi-speak, M in BMW, etc.
     
  16. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    I predict top Model 3 will be 0-60 in 3.6 sec.

    For some perspective, that's still significantly faster than a modern Ford Mustang 5.0, and the new Coyote 5.0 V8 motor in those cars is one of the best, most powerful engines Ford has ever put in a regular production car.
     
  17. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    #17 Yggdrasill, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    Using 576 kW from a 102.4 kWh battery, a 77 kW battery should be able to output 433 kW. Assuming 70% efficiency, that means 303 kW on the wheels. I think the Model 3 will weigh approximately 1950 kg, including 75 kg for the driver. And the Model S can accelerate at up to 1.2G, if we say 1.1G for the Model 3, that probably isn't far off.

    Using this information, we can calculate the time used on 0-60 mph (or 0-26.8 m/s).

    First, we need to know at what speed the car is no longer traction limited:

    v = P / ma = 303 kW / (1950 x 10.8 m/s^2) = 14.4 m/s

    The time taken to do this acceleration is:

    14.4 m/s / (1.1 x 9.8 m/s^2) = 1.34 seconds

    Below 14.4 m/s, power is slowly building, as the car struggles to put down the power without spinning the wheels. Above this speed, all 303 kW go into accelerating the car. Going from 14.4 m/s to 26.8 m/s, additional energy needs to be inputed:

    E(14.4) = 0.5 x 1950 kg x (14.4 m/s)^2 = 202.2 kJ
    E(28.6) = 0.5 x 1950 kg x (26.8 m/s)^2 = 700.3 kJ

    The difference is: 700.3 kJ - 202.2 kJ = 498.1 kJ

    And the time taken to supply this additional energy is:

    498.1 kJ / 303 kW = 1.64 seconds

    The complete 0-60 mph acceleration will take 1.34 s + 1.64 s = 2.98 seconds.

    BUT, the US method of measuring acceleration uses 1 ft rollout (30.5 cm). The above calculations do not take this into account. The time to accelerate through 1 ft is:

    s = 0.5at^2

    t = sqrt(s / (0.5a)) = sqrt( 0.3045 / (0.5 x 1.1 x 9.8)) = 0.23 seconds.

    The time for 0-60 is thus 2.98 seconds - 0.23 seconds = 2.75 seconds.

    I think the likely official number for the Model 3 is 2.8-2.9 seconds.
     
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  18. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    #18 sorka, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    My P85DL's 85 battery is really only an 81 kWh battery and it pulls 456KW so, yes, in theory the 77 should be able to pull 433 and given that the 3 will be smaller and lighter, it's perfectly reasonable that an PDL equipped 3 should be able to pull the same 0-60 as a P85DL or P90DL V1.

    Couple more notes. The P85DL and P90DL V1 pull 1500 amps. The P90DL V2 pulls 1600 amps. The P100DL pulls a crazy 1762 amps. Starting with the V2, the batteries use double wire connections to handle the extra load and decrease IR. If you assume the same for the highest performing 3 battery and using the same ratio, a 1762 amp 3 battery could pull 344KW.

    Any bets on how much it will cost ;)
     
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  19. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Actually 2.4 seconds in L+ mode.
     
  20. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    My guesses are here: Attempting to price out options for Model 3 (Part 2!)

    42k USD for the 75 kWh Model 3, and 60k USD for the P75D, but that includes 8k worth of options on top of the 75 kWh Model 3. That works out to 10k USD for two seconds less on 0-60 mph, or 5k USD per second. ;)
     
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