TM3 Ludicrous != 2.8 sec?

[DaDr00]

Given some of the recent speculations being thrown around regarding the Model 3 will not be as fast as the Model S. I had a pondering; we know that Elon tweeted that the Tesla Model 3 will have Ludicrous mode ... but he didn't state specifically that it could do 0-60MPH in 2.8 sec.

• Could this mean that Ludicrous mode is ambiguous to model platforms?
• Meaning that TM3 Ludicrous mode would not be the same as Tesla Model S Ludicrous mode?
• Is there something that has been said from Elon that would indicate this would be true?
• Has someone math'd it out based on battery size, assumed weight, and possible motor size?
• When will Spaceballs 2 be released?

Just thought I would lodge this internal conversation to the best speculators that I know on the subject.

 

[Boourns]

Ludicrous is not the same in the X and S, so I don't see why it would be the same in the 3. Elon also specifically said the 3 will be slower than the S.

 

[DaDr00]

Ludicrous is not the same in the X and S, so I don't see why it would be the same in the 3. Elon also specifically said the 3 will be slower than the S.

True, not exactly 2.8s ... but 2.9s for something 5,300lbs is still quite amazing. Do we think that the TM3 will be sub-3s?

 

[tsla007]

model 3 l version will probably have a time of 3.3sec for 0-60. No 2's ever. 2s are for S.

 

[S'toon]

Sigh. Musk specifically said that the 3 will be slower than the S because the S' bigger battery provides more power.

He also stated:
“Model S will always be the fastest Tesla until next gen Roadster, which is a few years away.”

I find it interesting how people continue to project their fantasies onto the Model 3, when Musk has specifically said it's a slower and smaller S.

Model 3 is just a smaller, more affordable version of Model S w less range & power & fewer features. Model S has more advanced technology.

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 24, 2017

 

[samsonm3]

model 3 l version will probably have a time of 3.3sec for 0-60. No 2's ever. 2s are for S.

If you read Elons Tweets

He said Model S will be the fastest because bigger battery, Until next gen roadster which will be the fastest Tesla.

My conclusion and what I infer is, Elon could have said Model X will be faster if Model 3 wasnt a sub 3 sec car.

I think 0-60 times for near future teslas.
Official numbers

Model X ------ 2.9 sec
Model 3 ------ 2.7 sec
Model S ------ 2.5 sec
Model R ------ 2.3 sec

The youtube channel " Engineering mechanics or something" came up with the theoretical max grip acceleration for street legal tires is approximately 2.2 sec 0-60

So seems logical to me.


P.S --- BTW this is my first comment on TMC

 

[Ltespd]

model 3 l version will probably have a time of 3.3sec for 0-60. No 2's ever. 2s are for S.

No 2's ever for the M3. You don't know that. The Model S has already hit 2.3 0-60. So a 2.9 0-60 M3 is possible and still slower than a Model S.

 

[EXOTIC1]

i posted two weeks week there wouldn't be a P variation M3 that will do 0-60 in under 3.50 and a turn 1/4 mile time under 11.75
released in the next 18 months and i'll double down on that

 

[sorka]

Ludicrous is not the same in the X and S, so I don't see why it would be the same in the 3. Elon also specifically said the 3 will be slower than the S.

It's not even the same in the S and the S. P85DL and P90DL V1 = 458KW. P90DL V2 = 511KW. P100DL = 576KW.

 

[samsonm3]

This will be Tesla's lineup. Remember At Tesla they don't make slow cars.

0-60mph times

Tesla Pickup. 3.3s
Model Y. 3.1s
Model X. 2.9s
Model 3. 2.7s
Model S. 2.5s
Roadster 2.3s

Elon talks in ciphers you have to break the code.

It has always been S,3,X,Y from the beginning. Refute that

 

[Nb1277]

It's not even the same in the S and the S. P85DL and P90DL V1 = 458KW. P90DL V2 = 511KW. P100DL = 576KW.

Exactly. The P100DL 0-60 is 2.5s soooo....

 

[EinSV]

This will be Tesla's lineup. Remember At Tesla they don't make slow cars.

0-60mph times

Tesla Pickup. 3.3s
Model Y. 3.1s
Model X. 2.9s
Model 3. 2.7s
Model S. 2.5s
Roadster 2.3s

Elon talks in ciphers you have to break the code.

It has always been S,3,X,Y from the beginning. Refute that

Welcome to TMC @samsonm3!

This seems like a good guesstimate to me. Personally, I would adjust by 0.2 seconds for the Easter Egg (e.g., 2.3 seconds for Model S). Plus there will be some improvement by next year this time and more by the time Model Y and Pickup come out.

I would be very surprised if the P75D Model 3 is not under 3 seconds 0-60.

 

[zenmaster]

At Tesla they don't make slow cars for the dragstrip.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Sasmania]

Sorry, but if it's not under 3 seconds, I don't see how it gets the "Ludicrous" label. Insane maybe, but not L...

 

[strider]

Sorry, but if it's not under 3 seconds, I don't see how it gets the "Ludicrous" label. Insane maybe, but not L...

I hope the 3P75DL is under 3 but I don't think that's a requirement for Ludicrous. L just denotes the fastest version of that model like RS in Audi-speak, M in BMW, etc.

 

[Skotty]

I predict top Model 3 will be 0-60 in 3.6 sec.

For some perspective, that's still significantly faster than a modern Ford Mustang 5.0, and the new Coyote 5.0 V8 motor in those cars is one of the best, most powerful engines Ford has ever put in a regular production car.

 

[Yggdrasill]

It's not even the same in the S and the S. P85DL and P90DL V1 = 458KW. P90DL V2 = 511KW. P100DL = 576KW.

Using 576 kW from a 102.4 kWh battery, a 77 kW battery should be able to output 433 kW. Assuming 70% efficiency, that means 303 kW on the wheels. I think the Model 3 will weigh approximately 1950 kg, including 75 kg for the driver. And the Model S can accelerate at up to 1.2G, if we say 1.1G for the Model 3, that probably isn't far off.

Using this information, we can calculate the time used on 0-60 mph (or 0-26.8 m/s).

First, we need to know at what speed the car is no longer traction limited:

v = P / ma = 303 kW / (1950 x 10.8 m/s^2) = 14.4 m/s

The time taken to do this acceleration is:

14.4 m/s / (1.1 x 9.8 m/s^2) = 1.34 seconds

Below 14.4 m/s, power is slowly building, as the car struggles to put down the power without spinning the wheels. Above this speed, all 303 kW go into accelerating the car. Going from 14.4 m/s to 26.8 m/s, additional energy needs to be inputed:

E(14.4) = 0.5 x 1950 kg x (14.4 m/s)^2 = 202.2 kJ
E(28.6) = 0.5 x 1950 kg x (26.8 m/s)^2 = 700.3 kJ

The difference is: 700.3 kJ - 202.2 kJ = 498.1 kJ

And the time taken to supply this additional energy is:

498.1 kJ / 303 kW = 1.64 seconds

The complete 0-60 mph acceleration will take 1.34 s + 1.64 s = 2.98 seconds.

BUT, the US method of measuring acceleration uses 1 ft rollout (30.5 cm). The above calculations do not take this into account. The time to accelerate through 1 ft is:

s = 0.5at^2

t = sqrt(s / (0.5a)) = sqrt( 0.3045 / (0.5 x 1.1 x 9.8)) = 0.23 seconds.

The time for 0-60 is thus 2.98 seconds - 0.23 seconds = 2.75 seconds.

I think the likely official number for the Model 3 is 2.8-2.9 seconds.

 

[sorka]

My P85DL's 85 battery is really only an 81 kWh battery and it pulls 456KW so, yes, in theory the 77 should be able to pull 433 and given that the 3 will be smaller and lighter, it's perfectly reasonable that an PDL equipped 3 should be able to pull the same 0-60 as a P85DL or P90DL V1.

Couple more notes. The P85DL and P90DL V1 pull 1500 amps. The P90DL V2 pulls 1600 amps. The P100DL pulls a crazy 1762 amps. Starting with the V2, the batteries use double wire connections to handle the extra load and decrease IR. If you assume the same for the highest performing 3 battery and using the same ratio, a 1762 amp 3 battery could pull 344KW.

Any bets on how much it will cost

 

[sorka]

Exactly. The P100DL 0-60 is 2.5s soooo....

Actually 2.4 seconds in L+ mode.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Any bets on how much it will cost

My guesses are here: Attempting to price out options for Model 3 (Part 2!)

42k USD for the 75 kWh Model 3, and 60k USD for the P75D, but that includes 8k worth of options on top of the 75 kWh Model 3. That works out to 10k USD for two seconds less on 0-60 mph, or 5k USD per second.