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TMC has a VERY real problem with the Marketplace!

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,596
3,633
Colorado, USA
It's like the Wild West across this entire subforum and not in a good way either.

The complete lack of rules, guidelines or whatever you want to call them has created a horribly aggressive, hostile and unfriendly environment. I can't imagine how many new members or would-be members are run off after dipping a toe in these waters. I've been a contributing member (and staff member) of countless car, truck and motorcycle forums over the decades and not one of them tolerate the hostility that has been allowed to become commonplace here at TMC.

I'm relatively new so I didn't want to rush to judgement but I've been here long enough to see a pattern emerging and something has to be done to reign the negative attitude back and make TMC a friendly and enjoyable community that further drives the overall vision. I would think that "be kind, be polite and just be generally nice" would prevail w/o intervention but it's clearly obvious to anyone that this hasn't been the case and it's getting steadily worse... not better. It's not all members either but a small percentage of the total community but they are incredibly vocal & brazen making it seem like a more widespread issue than it really is.

As an example, I will cite this for sale thread since it's the most recently replied to thread but there are dozens if not hundreds just like it with far less drama that have thread crappers trolling them. This 100+ post for sale thread is EXACTLY why TMC staff needs to do something about the for sale section of this forum. It's unreal how off-topic BS is allowed to be posted in someone's for sale thread and it is NOT allowed on any of the other car, truck & motorcycle forums I've been on over the decades. It makes for a hostile environment and it is VERY intimidating for new members who see others being bullied simply for offering an item for sale if it's not also the cheapest example of that item other readers have ever seen.

This forum has a real problem with some members feeling the need to prove just how smart they are by bashing other people's for sale threads even if they have absolutely no interest in owning the item in question at any price. If someone truly is trying to help the OP they need to take it to PM. If someone feels the price is too high and is LEGITIMATELY interested in owning the item they need to take it to PM. Most other forums will allow posts such as "I've bought/sold from OP in the past and he/she has been great to work with" or similar feedback so others know if they can be trusted or not or basic questions for clarification or fact omission that other potential buyers would benefit from. The line for acceptable posts is pretty much drawn there. Anything else that doesn't benefit another potential buyer by discussing publicly should be taken to PM.

Trashing someone's for sale thread because it's not the absolute cheapest example you've ever seen is childish and should not be allowed to continue. Who cares if they want $200k for their clapped out Model 3? It may sit forever for sale and the seller may not even mind that it takes forever to sell. Not everyone wants to give an item away to move it quickly and it's none of your business since you clearly aren't interested in buying the item at any price. If you were, you'd send a PM with a genuine offer rather than bashing them publicly.

To me, that's the single largest & most rampant offense I'm seeing on this forum and it needs to be addressed immediately as it's scaring off people who could be good contributors to the community. Most forums also require a price to be listed with a listing as the most basic of requirements. There's no reason that this shouldn't be a basic requirement to asking someone else to buy your item. After all, it's not like we approached you and you didn't have time to think about it or feel out the market. You took the time to post it up so surely you must have some idea what you want for it. It's possible that this could be a direct result of the previous behavior I've mentioned where some members are afraid to even post an asking price for fear of the trolls taking over their thread as a result. Who knows how many members aren't even creating threads as a direct result of this behavior.

Some forums go a bit further requiring actual photos and not just stock photos to help prevent fraudulent activity & help would-be buyers know what it is they're getting. Some get a little too crazy (IMO) with requiring the listing of full name, address, phone #, email and other details in the for sale thread itself. I'm not a huge fan of requiring the posting of personal information publicly but the point here is that some basic and simple guidelines need to be put in place and enforced. It's pretty clear that people can't be civil to each other because it's the polite and right thing to do so it's time TMC enforced guidelines that don't allow the select few members who don't have any respect for their fellow TMC members.

Help make TMC a more friendly and enjoyable place. Don't take my word for it, visit other forums marketplace subforum and you'll see that this sort of behavior simply isn't allowed. The sooner TMC adopts basic civility guidelines the easier it will be to enforce on the few turds ruining it for everyone and the happier and more welcoming a place TMC will be for everyone.
 

BoerumHill

not great not terrible
Apr 23, 2015
736
212
New York, NY
IME the thread you linked is the exception, not the rule. However, that particular poster and his multiple threads *(for the same car) should have been deleted due to excessive bumping. If folks want to overprice their vehicles, that's their prerogative. But excessive bumps are unnecessary - the silence IS the market's answer.
 

BoerumHill

not great not terrible
Apr 23, 2015
736
212
New York, NY
@Ostrichsak - I do agree with your general point it's poor form to complain in someone's TFS thread. It's unnecessary. Anyone about to drop $35-60K on a used car is aware of the market value. EV-CPO.com is not a secret, I don't know why people feel compelled to use it for comps between Used Teslas with 2/4 year warranty and FSBO.

If you're not buying than just drop a compliment along with a GLWS. You have no business passing judgement on sellers ability to gauge the market. Send a PM if you must, but it's just a Richard move trying to undermine someone's sale. Caveat emptor.
 
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,767
7,981
Maine
@Ostrichsak - I do agree with your general point it's poor form to complain in someone's TFS thread. It's unnecessary. Anyone about to drop $35-60K on a used car is aware of the market value. EV-CPO.com is not a secret, I don't know why people feel compelled to use it for comps between Used Teslas with 2/4 year warranty and FSBO.

If you're not buying than just drop a compliment along with a GLWS. You have no business passing judgement on sellers ability to gauge the market. Send a PM if you must, but it's just a Richard move trying to undermine someone's sale. Caveat emptor.

One person's trying to undermine a sale is another person's trying to stop someone being taken for a sucker.

If it's inappropriate or trolling, report it. Just like every other post.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
6,879
Canyon Lake,CA
It is poor form to dump on anothers for sale offering. Things like showing a place to get it cheaper etc is out of line as there is always someplace to get things cheaper.

Sellers will often start their sales efforts with the highest price they think they might get. If that does not bring an offer, they will typically reduce the price until they find a buyer.

In most sales listings for vehicles 80% of the listings are too high. Savy buyers will duke it out over the bottom 20% where the deals can be found. Some are looking for a very specific vehicle and will pay a premium to get just what they want. All the sellers are hoping to get "That Guy!"
 
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AWD>

Member
Jan 28, 2018
349
63
No
IME the thread you linked is the exception, not the rule. However, that particular poster and his multiple threads *(for the same car) should have been deleted due to excessive bumping. If folks want to overprice their vehicles, that's their prerogative. But excessive bumps are unnecessary - the silence IS the market's answer.

One bump per week is the standard I use and have used since I started using forums. If someone asks a question, it is not excessive for me to answer.

I do concur, excessive bumps are not necessary and should not be allowed. I actually requested the first trolled to death thread be deleted before creating the new one and waited a week. It’s still not deleted and I’ve requested dozens of times to close or delete.

Trolling, bashing, blocking, harassing and abuse should equally never be allowed.

If a member has a question, they should PM an OP or, post a question outside the for sale thread if it’s a forum type minded discussion. Discussion on price is not a for sale based item, unless the OP is lowering the price and they are generating the discussion.

My humble opinion, which is based on many years in car forums as an owner. Not a 12 year old with a keyboard in a basement.

From diesel trucks to exotics to an EV. I’m sad to say the best community isn’t the last/current. Only because people are allowed to ruin it. Cops exist because crime exists, moderators need to exist by the same regard.

This place needs help.
 
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cucubits

Active Member
May 17, 2019
1,716
916
TX
AWDs "humble opinion" means exactly zero. In my eyes (and probably others too) he lost absolutely all credibility when he got caught trying to rip TMC buyers off in his thread. Just head over there and read through his non sense and lies.

Do your research folks, there are "peaceful" threads too, but this guy doesn't deserve that treatment. Had the forum been correctly moderated, AWD would have been long banned. Don't be fooled by his excuses.
 

AWD>

Member
Jan 28, 2018
349
63
No
One person's trying to undermine a sale is another person's trying to stop someone being taken for a sucker.

If it's inappropriate or trolling, report it. Just like every other post.

Step 1 -

Experiment 1 - Go stand in someone’s driveway that has a car for sale out front and use this mentality. If you survive, please proceed to step 2.

Experiment 2 - Go to a dealer and do the same with prospective customers.

Experiment 3 - Attempt to sell your own car at market value on TMC.

Step 2 -
Please report back.

——

Moderators don’t do anything with regard to reporting, requests for action or services to threads. Or answer a private message in my experience. It’s quite unfortunate. Your statement should be accurate and action should be taken.
 
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Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,596
3,633
Colorado, USA
AWDs "humble opinion" means exactly zero. In my eyes (and probably others too) he lost absolutely all credibility when he got caught trying to rip TMC buyers off in his thread. Just head over there and read through his non sense and lies.

Do your research folks, there are "peaceful" threads too, but this guy doesn't deserve that treatment. Had the forum been correctly moderated, AWD would have been long banned. Don't be fooled by his excuses.
His post isn't the only one that was stepped on so your claim that it was only his thread is irrelevant.
 
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redgt

Member
Dec 4, 2018
304
234
CA
One bump per week is the standard I use and have used since I started using forums. If someone asks a question, it is not excessive for me to answer.

I do concur, excessive bumps are not necessary and should not be allowed. I actually requested the first trolled to death thread be deleted before creating the new one and waited a week. It’s still not deleted and I’ve requested dozens of times to close or delete.

Trolling, bashing, blocking, harassing and abuse should equally never be allowed.

If a member has a question, they should PM an OP or, post a question outside the for sale thread if it’s a forum type minded discussion. Discussion on price is not a for sale based item, unless the OP is lowering the price and they are generating the discussion.

My humble opinion, which is based on many years in car forums as an owner. Not a 12 year old with a keyboard in a basement.

From diesel trucks to exotics to an EV. I’m sad to say the best community isn’t the last/current. Only because people are allowed to ruin it. Cops exist because crime exists, moderators need to exist by the same regard.

This place needs help.

LR RWD Model 3

looking at your post history you've "trolled" members selling on this forum as well ............
 
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FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
6,876
6,491
Silicon Valley
It's like the Wild West across this entire subforum and not in a good way either.

The complete lack of rules, guidelines or whatever you want to call them has created a horribly aggressive, hostile and unfriendly environment. I can't imagine how many new members or would-be members are run off after dipping a toe in these waters. I've been a contributing member (and staff member) of countless car, truck and motorcycle forums over the decades and not one of them tolerate the hostility that has been allowed to become commonplace here at TMC.

I'm relatively new so I didn't want to rush to judgement but I've been here long enough to see a pattern emerging and something has to be done to reign the negative attitude back and make TMC a friendly and enjoyable community that further drives the overall vision. I would think that "be kind, be polite and just be generally nice" would prevail w/o intervention but it's clearly obvious to anyone that this hasn't been the case and it's getting steadily worse... not better. It's not all members either but a small percentage of the total community but they are incredibly vocal & brazen making it seem like a more widespread issue than it really is.

As an example, I will cite this for sale thread since it's the most recently replied to thread but there are dozens if not hundreds just like it with far less drama that have thread crappers trolling them. This 100+ post for sale thread is EXACTLY why TMC staff needs to do something about the for sale section of this forum. It's unreal how off-topic BS is allowed to be posted in someone's for sale thread and it is NOT allowed on any of the other car, truck & motorcycle forums I've been on over the decades. It makes for a hostile environment and it is VERY intimidating for new members who see others being bullied simply for offering an item for sale if it's not also the cheapest example of that item other readers have ever seen.

This forum has a real problem with some members feeling the need to prove just how smart they are by bashing other people's for sale threads even if they have absolutely no interest in owning the item in question at any price. If someone truly is trying to help the OP they need to take it to PM. If someone feels the price is too high and is LEGITIMATELY interested in owning the item they need to take it to PM. Most other forums will allow posts such as "I've bought/sold from OP in the past and he/she has been great to work with" or similar feedback so others know if they can be trusted or not or basic questions for clarification or fact omission that other potential buyers would benefit from. The line for acceptable posts is pretty much drawn there. Anything else that doesn't benefit another potential buyer by discussing publicly should be taken to PM.

Trashing someone's for sale thread because it's not the absolute cheapest example you've ever seen is childish and should not be allowed to continue. Who cares if they want $200k for their clapped out Model 3? It may sit forever for sale and the seller may not even mind that it takes forever to sell. Not everyone wants to give an item away to move it quickly and it's none of your business since you clearly aren't interested in buying the item at any price. If you were, you'd send a PM with a genuine offer rather than bashing them publicly.

To me, that's the single largest & most rampant offense I'm seeing on this forum and it needs to be addressed immediately as it's scaring off people who could be good contributors to the community. Most forums also require a price to be listed with a listing as the most basic of requirements. There's no reason that this shouldn't be a basic requirement to asking someone else to buy your item. After all, it's not like we approached you and you didn't have time to think about it or feel out the market. You took the time to post it up so surely you must have some idea what you want for it. It's possible that this could be a direct result of the previous behavior I've mentioned where some members are afraid to even post an asking price for fear of the trolls taking over their thread as a result. Who knows how many members aren't even creating threads as a direct result of this behavior.

Some forums go a bit further requiring actual photos and not just stock photos to help prevent fraudulent activity & help would-be buyers know what it is they're getting. Some get a little too crazy (IMO) with requiring the listing of full name, address, phone #, email and other details in the for sale thread itself. I'm not a huge fan of requiring the posting of personal information publicly but the point here is that some basic and simple guidelines need to be put in place and enforced. It's pretty clear that people can't be civil to each other because it's the polite and right thing to do so it's time TMC enforced guidelines that don't allow the select few members who don't have any respect for their fellow TMC members.

Help make TMC a more friendly and enjoyable place. Don't take my word for it, visit other forums marketplace subforum and you'll see that this sort of behavior simply isn't allowed. The sooner TMC adopts basic civility guidelines the easier it will be to enforce on the few turds ruining it for everyone and the happier and more welcoming a place TMC will be for everyone.


Time to grow up... a discussion of the market helps the larger TMC membership including the seller. The free market rules... :cool:
 
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AWD>

Member
Jan 28, 2018
349
63
No
Make a sub thread if you’re an adult and PM the seller because you’re a respectful adult.

Market discussion does not belong in a FS thread unless the OP dictates.

Great work trolling this thread guys, discuss, because you can’t help yourselves :cool:

Point proven :eek:
 
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AWD>

Member
Jan 28, 2018
349
63
No
Redirection, no thanks. The forums do benefit all and should benefit equally.

All members can post a question and receive excessive amounts of opinion, even with regard to another thread. Pretty amazing concept.

All parties win and thread isn’t trashed on the FS side, plus prospective buyers can all learn from everyone’s amazing opinions.

The proper channel for a price discussion is outside a FS thread, in buyer format and or directly via PM.

Cut and dry. You should know better if you have a 918 like your pic suggests. 6speedonline and RL don’t put up with thread trashing. Why? Mutual respect a mature group and most importantly rules which are enforced.

We’ll get there.
 
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TE51A

Member
Apr 6, 2019
76
89
VIRGINIA
It's like the Wild West across this entire subforum and not in a good way either.

The complete lack of rules, guidelines or whatever you want to call them has created a horribly aggressive, hostile and unfriendly environment. I can't imagine how many new members or would-be members are run off after dipping a toe in these waters. I've been a contributing member (and staff member) of countless car, truck and motorcycle forums over the decades and not one of them tolerate the hostility that has been allowed to become commonplace here at TMC.

I'm relatively new so I didn't want to rush to judgement but I've been here long enough to see a pattern emerging and something has to be done to reign the negative attitude back and make TMC a friendly and enjoyable community that further drives the overall vision. I would think that "be kind, be polite and just be generally nice" would prevail w/o intervention but it's clearly obvious to anyone that this hasn't been the case and it's getting steadily worse... not better. It's not all members either but a small percentage of the total community but they are incredibly vocal & brazen making it seem like a more widespread issue than it really is.

As an example, I will cite this for sale thread since it's the most recently replied to thread but there are dozens if not hundreds just like it with far less drama that have thread crappers trolling them. This 100+ post for sale thread is EXACTLY why TMC staff needs to do something about the for sale section of this forum. It's unreal how off-topic BS is allowed to be posted in someone's for sale thread and it is NOT allowed on any of the other car, truck & motorcycle forums I've been on over the decades. It makes for a hostile environment and it is VERY intimidating for new members who see others being bullied simply for offering an item for sale if it's not also the cheapest example of that item other readers have ever seen.

This forum has a real problem with some members feeling the need to prove just how smart they are by bashing other people's for sale threads even if they have absolutely no interest in owning the item in question at any price. If someone truly is trying to help the OP they need to take it to PM. If someone feels the price is too high and is LEGITIMATELY interested in owning the item they need to take it to PM. Most other forums will allow posts such as "I've bought/sold from OP in the past and he/she has been great to work with" or similar feedback so others know if they can be trusted or not or basic questions for clarification or fact omission that other potential buyers would benefit from. The line for acceptable posts is pretty much drawn there. Anything else that doesn't benefit another potential buyer by discussing publicly should be taken to PM.

Trashing someone's for sale thread because it's not the absolute cheapest example you've ever seen is childish and should not be allowed to continue. Who cares if they want $200k for their clapped out Model 3? It may sit forever for sale and the seller may not even mind that it takes forever to sell. Not everyone wants to give an item away to move it quickly and it's none of your business since you clearly aren't interested in buying the item at any price. If you were, you'd send a PM with a genuine offer rather than bashing them publicly.

To me, that's the single largest & most rampant offense I'm seeing on this forum and it needs to be addressed immediately as it's scaring off people who could be good contributors to the community. Most forums also require a price to be listed with a listing as the most basic of requirements. There's no reason that this shouldn't be a basic requirement to asking someone else to buy your item. After all, it's not like we approached you and you didn't have time to think about it or feel out the market. You took the time to post it up so surely you must have some idea what you want for it. It's possible that this could be a direct result of the previous behavior I've mentioned where some members are afraid to even post an asking price for fear of the trolls taking over their thread as a result. Who knows how many members aren't even creating threads as a direct result of this behavior.

Some forums go a bit further requiring actual photos and not just stock photos to help prevent fraudulent activity & help would-be buyers know what it is they're getting. Some get a little too crazy (IMO) with requiring the listing of full name, address, phone #, email and other details in the for sale thread itself. I'm not a huge fan of requiring the posting of personal information publicly but the point here is that some basic and simple guidelines need to be put in place and enforced. It's pretty clear that people can't be civil to each other because it's the polite and right thing to do so it's time TMC enforced guidelines that don't allow the select few members who don't have any respect for their fellow TMC members.

Help make TMC a more friendly and enjoyable place. Don't take my word for it, visit other forums marketplace subforum and you'll see that this sort of behavior simply isn't allowed. The sooner TMC adopts basic civility guidelines the easier it will be to enforce on the few turds ruining it for everyone and the happier and more welcoming a place TMC will be for everyone.
I can't like this post enough, I stopped engaging in TMC due to said abuse, and for a while engaged on the official Tesla Forum. But now most of my activity shifted to State Tesla Owner Society group (which is listed on Tesla.com under forum owners)
It's not surprising that despite TMC being the Tesla Motor OG forum it didn't earn it's place to official support, or attract significant Media figures. given that Tesla vehicle owners are mostly CEOs, or medium to big business owners who are well respected people, they wouldn't waste their time in places that are toxic. It is bad for their mojo, bad for their rep, and the help they provide or seek (what the forum is about) has to be sifted out among *sugar* posts.

Just my 2 cents rant. :)
 

qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
3,426
2,437
VB
It's like the Wild West across this entire subforum and not in a good way either.

The complete lack of rules, guidelines or whatever you want to call them has created a horribly aggressive, hostile and unfriendly environment. I can't imagine how many new members or would-be members are run off after dipping a toe in these waters. I've been a contributing member (and staff member) of countless car, truck and motorcycle forums over the decades and not one of them tolerate the hostility that has been allowed to become commonplace here at TMC.

I'm relatively new so I didn't want to rush to judgement but I've been here long enough to see a pattern emerging and something has to be done to reign the negative attitude back and make TMC a friendly and enjoyable community that further drives the overall vision. I would think that "be kind, be polite and just be generally nice" would prevail w/o intervention but it's clearly obvious to anyone that this hasn't been the case and it's getting steadily worse... not better. It's not all members either but a small percentage of the total community but they are incredibly vocal & brazen making it seem like a more widespread issue than it really is.

As an example, I will cite this for sale thread since it's the most recently replied to thread but there are dozens if not hundreds just like it with far less drama that have thread crappers trolling them. This 100+ post for sale thread is EXACTLY why TMC staff needs to do something about the for sale section of this forum. It's unreal how off-topic BS is allowed to be posted in someone's for sale thread and it is NOT allowed on any of the other car, truck & motorcycle forums I've been on over the decades. It makes for a hostile environment and it is VERY intimidating for new members who see others being bullied simply for offering an item for sale if it's not also the cheapest example of that item other readers have ever seen.

This forum has a real problem with some members feeling the need to prove just how smart they are by bashing other people's for sale threads even if they have absolutely no interest in owning the item in question at any price. If someone truly is trying to help the OP they need to take it to PM. If someone feels the price is too high and is LEGITIMATELY interested in owning the item they need to take it to PM. Most other forums will allow posts such as "I've bought/sold from OP in the past and he/she has been great to work with" or similar feedback so others know if they can be trusted or not or basic questions for clarification or fact omission that other potential buyers would benefit from. The line for acceptable posts is pretty much drawn there. Anything else that doesn't benefit another potential buyer by discussing publicly should be taken to PM.

Trashing someone's for sale thread because it's not the absolute cheapest example you've ever seen is childish and should not be allowed to continue. Who cares if they want $200k for their clapped out Model 3? It may sit forever for sale and the seller may not even mind that it takes forever to sell. Not everyone wants to give an item away to move it quickly and it's none of your business since you clearly aren't interested in buying the item at any price. If you were, you'd send a PM with a genuine offer rather than bashing them publicly.

To me, that's the single largest & most rampant offense I'm seeing on this forum and it needs to be addressed immediately as it's scaring off people who could be good contributors to the community. Most forums also require a price to be listed with a listing as the most basic of requirements. There's no reason that this shouldn't be a basic requirement to asking someone else to buy your item. After all, it's not like we approached you and you didn't have time to think about it or feel out the market. You took the time to post it up so surely you must have some idea what you want for it. It's possible that this could be a direct result of the previous behavior I've mentioned where some members are afraid to even post an asking price for fear of the trolls taking over their thread as a result. Who knows how many members aren't even creating threads as a direct result of this behavior.

Some forums go a bit further requiring actual photos and not just stock photos to help prevent fraudulent activity & help would-be buyers know what it is they're getting. Some get a little too crazy (IMO) with requiring the listing of full name, address, phone #, email and other details in the for sale thread itself. I'm not a huge fan of requiring the posting of personal information publicly but the point here is that some basic and simple guidelines need to be put in place and enforced. It's pretty clear that people can't be civil to each other because it's the polite and right thing to do so it's time TMC enforced guidelines that don't allow the select few members who don't have any respect for their fellow TMC members.

Help make TMC a more friendly and enjoyable place. Don't take my word for it, visit other forums marketplace subforum and you'll see that this sort of behavior simply isn't allowed. The sooner TMC adopts basic civility guidelines the easier it will be to enforce on the few turds ruining it for everyone and the happier and more welcoming a place TMC will be for everyone.
Yikes.
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,596
3,633
Colorado, USA
Over two years later & nothing has changed, sadly.

Actually, I should say one thing has definitely changed: the community growth & participation has definitely grown at a much slower pace. The marketplace has basically become a ghost town. I've bought & sold 6 used Model S cars now & tens of thousands of dollars in Tesla related items and I refuse to list anything here. The forum staff has succeeded in letting a few inmates run the asylum effectively running off countless items & members.

Summary: we all lose because of a couple of turds who contribute exactly zero to the community.I sure am glad we protected them at the costs of maybe hundreds of contributing quality members.
 
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