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To Buy & Sell, To Cancel or To Hope and Pray for the Best

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From what I can tell and see, Tesla has delivered very few (~500) Model-X to date. The first Signature deliveries have shown to have some problems that required attention and are being addressed to the customer's satisfaction. A significant number have had delayed deliveries until those issues are sorted out.

But from more recent reports, those initial problems have already been resolved and the build gets better and better. By the time I get mine delivered (BTW, I haven't yet configured ... waiting for a test drive in a few weeks) I fully expect 99.9% of the issues to be resolved.
 
MikeBur,

Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response.

Mike
Apologies, this became a bit of a tome, and I share your quandary.

I'm a big proponent of informed choices and data-driven expectations. To me the critique of cars is a fundamental prerequisite, and if there were forums on roller coasters then I would read it (btw, there is.. here,), though the analogy is inaccurate as this is the customers, not the park owners or maintenance workers - you give us all too much credit on here. Armed with information, I have can set my own expectations that is driven more by data and less by unencumbered enthusiasm.
As an early owner of my p85d there were definitely things I wish I knew now vs. then which would have guided me better and grounded my initial expectations - however, as many have said being an early adopter is a conscious decision that's based more on emotion than available data.

We ordered a production ModelX quite a bit earlier and have it awaiting configuration. One of the earliest sig owners in our area kindly brought their X to an event after I requested and that helped - though there's still no way I'm going to purchase one without driving it. Thankfully just another couple of weeks before we have 15 minutes driving one.

In terms of faults, issues, etc. It's fair to say that you won't find many people posting "Wow, my car was amazing and had no issues", that's just not the nature of online forums... silence is usually happiness! :)
Rather, when asked, I've heard no owners who would wish for anything but a Tesla given a repeat purchase. This level of evangelism appears to be primarily due to the satisfaction with Tesla and their ability to think differently, eg. completely voluntary seat belt recall that affected (afaict) 1 car mistake from the entire fleet. Tesla didn't try to hide an issue, instead they announced it proactively, sent early notification for self-test, set up service appointments, and even had staff at the Superchargers to do this proactively for minimal potential inconvenience - never heard of this type of customer sat before. I have many other examples, though you get a flavor hopefully.

Should you expect the 1st generation of ModelX to be perfect? No.
There will be niggles and you should expect these. The service centers are great, and will try to accommodate you to minimize inconvenience, though TM appear to be selling cars at a faster rate than the rate of increase of service centers.

Should you expect continual refinement based upon experiences in the field? Yes.
Again, compare an early Model S sig to a p90D today and it's amazing how much better fit, finish, etc, are.

Additionally, we know that Tesla enhances the vehicle capability in software wherever it can (you don't find other car manufacturers doing this). When this requires new hardware which are "easily" retrofitted they have done so - examples I've taken opportunity for are 3G to LTE, and Ludicrous upgrade for original p85d owners. Other examples are more extensive and not available, or cost ineffective, eg. autopilot and 85 to new chemistry on 90 battery.
Only things which some believe are coming, though unknown when is the corner and/or rear-facing radar for enhanced autopilot. I can't imagine this will be "retro-fittable" unless the wiring harnesses are in place.

Am I buying the X? If I didn't have my current p85d, or this was a replacement car, given my experience to date: Absolutely, Yes. Though as this is the replacement for my wife's ICE car: still unknown. Ask me in a couple of weeks, post test-drive.

Good luck, hope this helps,

Cheers, Mike
 
I would echo what others have said: forums tend to attract fanboys (hi!) and critics; those who love the car and brand and those who want to vent about it (or undermine it). I follow the forums and Facebook page pretty closely and while there are some quirks and issues, to me they don't seem excessive (but admittedly, I lean more toward the "fan boy" side than the critic). If you have a low sensitivity to "quirks" and your closest service center is not close then see if you can delay your Model X order or outright cancel it. I cancelled a confirmed order and have been told I will get a full refund ("the check is in the mail"), so if you have a legit concern (mine was the car not fitting in my driveway), then make a case to your DS about why the time is not right for you to buy and you may be able to get a refund. I think what worked in my favor is that I had ordered a regular 90D and AFAIK, those have not really entered production yet. If your P90D is further along, then a full refund is less likely.

I wouldn't count on getting more than what you paid for it by buying it and selling it. Depending when you take delivery, demand for a P90D with no waiting may be high enough to command a decent premium, but you'll also have to cover your state sales tax. That's a few extra thousand $$$ added to your cost base that you'll have to recover in the sale price. A potential buyer will effectively be paying that tax twice (once to cover your cost, once for him or her upon registration). Buying one new, the buyer only pays that tax once and gets to pick all of their favorite options, instead of settling for what you picked. You could potentially lose more than $5K in that transaction.

But last night I went to the "Meet Model X" even in NYC and was reminded again why I fell in love with this car. The panoramic windshield, the sexy falcon wing doors (which worked flawlessly), automatic driver's door open and close (which worked flawlessly), 17-inch touch screen, seating for 7 (or at least 6) full size people, full electric drive train with a ludicrous amount of acceleration. The list goes on. There is quite literally nothing like the Model X on the road today. The Model S is also amazing, but it's really a different, slightly less futuristic vehicle. The higher driving position, roomier passenger compartment, massive front visibility and capacious entry to the rear afforded by the falcon wing doors make the X unlike anything else on the road today. If being a trailblazer is something you enjoy, then get the X. Will there be a few quirks? Probably. Early adopters pay that price. But it does seem that Tesla is doing their best to correct as many issues as possible during the QA phase (before delivery) so I wouldn't be surprised if the real show-stopper issues are minimal by the time you take delivery. But really, it's a personal choice. Good luck, whichever path you choose.
 
@MikeJr:

Just for comparison, I've had my Model X for about a month, and my only significant complaint is about a fussy charge port which I'm sure Tesla will resolve. Everything else works amazingly well, and I am quite satisfied.

Four months after I bought my Lexus LS460 (CR "most reliable vehicle"), I moved from California to Pennsylvania. A month later the Lexus started losing 95% of its power when cold, nearly stalling. Problem correction involved replacement of both mass airflow sensors and the entire engine wiring harness. I'm certain those won't fail on the Tesla since they don't exist!

Bottom line, drive one and see how you like it. Comfort is equivalent to the Lexus. Safety is far beyond it.

Then if you think it's not for you, find someone who wants it as a NEW car, make financial arrangements and add them as an owner BEFORE you take delivery. After delivery you can get the DMV to remove you from the title. The new owner will have all the rights of an original buyer.

This is just my opinion, make of it what you will.
 
Mike Jr:

If you were one of the first 500 you may have something to worry about but considering you have yet to be assigned a VIN and there are already 1,100 in front of you, by the time your car goes into production Tesla should have the issues resolved. Having ordered the Black Onyx wheels may have been a blessing.

I think if you asked Tesla S owners about the quality of their car you would find the satisfaction rating to be extremely high.

Also, others are right, people rarely make positive comments on forums. All you normally see are complaints. If you notice there are less than 50 users who post most of the negative content. You will see the same complaints over and over again. Some of these users have never seen a Tesla and have no plans on ordering a Tesla. They are just negative people who like to rile things up.

On the other hand my VIN is 000251 and I am scheduled to pick my car up at noon on Friday. I do have some concerned and have decided to hold off on selling my existing car until I know the X is reliable. As we discussed last month you are welcome to join me when I pick up my car. Maybe this will help you make a more informed decision.
_______________
Reservation #8143 | Order Confirmed 12/17/15 | Prod VIN 0251 | VIN Assigned 12/23/15 | P90D | Titanium Metallic | Tan Leather | Ash wood | Light Headliner | 20" silver helix wheels | Premium upgrade | Autopilot | Six seat (2-2-2) | Towing | 72 Amp Charger | Delivery Scheduled for 2/26/16 | Orlando Service Center
Please update "http://ModelXTracker.com" with information about your Model X order.
 
MrBoylan, thanks for your detailed response, it is greatly appreciated. I have followed your posts, while you tried to fit a Tesla in you back parking area. It is a shame that it won't fit, in light of your passion for the vehicle.



Mike




I would echo what others have said: forums tend to attract fanboys (hi!) and critics; those who love the car and brand and those who want to vent about it (or undermine it). I follow the forums and Facebook page pretty closely and while there are some quirks and issues, to me they don't seem excessive (but admittedly, I lean more toward the "fan boy" side than the critic). If you have a low sensitivity to "quirks" and your closest service center is not close then see if you can delay your Model X order or outright cancel it. I cancelled a confirmed order and have been told I will get a full refund ("the check is in the mail"), so if you have a legit concern (mine was the car not fitting in my driveway), then make a case to your DS about why the time is not right for you to buy and you may be able to get a refund. I think what worked in my favor is that I had ordered a regular 90D and AFAIK, those have not really entered production yet. If your P90D is further along, then a full refund is less likely.

I wouldn't count on getting more than what you paid for it by buying it and selling it. Depending when you take delivery, demand for a P90D with no waiting may be high enough to command a decent premium, but you'll also have to cover your state sales tax. That's a few extra thousand $$$ added to your cost base that you'll have to recover in the sale price. A potential buyer will effectively be paying that tax twice (once to cover your cost, once for him or her upon registration). Buying one new, the buyer only pays that tax once and gets to pick all of their favorite options, instead of settling for what you picked. You could potentially lose more than $5K in that transaction.

But last night I went to the "Meet Model X" even in NYC and was reminded again why I fell in love with this car. The panoramic windshield, the sexy falcon wing doors (which worked flawlessly), automatic driver's door open and close (which worked flawlessly), 17-inch touch screen, seating for 7 (or at least 6) full size people, full electric drive train with a ludicrous amount of acceleration. The list goes on. There is quite literally nothing like the Model X on the road today. The Model S is also amazing, but it's really a different, slightly less futuristic vehicle. The higher driving position, roomier passenger compartment, massive front visibility and capacious entry to the rear afforded by the falcon wing doors make the X unlike anything else on the road today. If being a trailblazer is something you enjoy, then get the X. Will there be a few quirks? Probably. Early adopters pay that price. But it does seem that Tesla is doing their best to correct as many issues as possible during the QA phase (before delivery) so I wouldn't be surprised if the real show-stopper issues are minimal by the time you take delivery. But really, it's a personal choice. Good luck, whichever path you choose.

- - - Updated - - -

FarmerDave, thanks for your opinion.
@MikeJr:

Just for comparison, I've had my Model X for about a month, and my only significant complaint is about a fussy charge port which I'm sure Tesla will resolve. Everything else works amazingly well, and I am quite satisfied.

Four months after I bought my Lexus LS460 (CR "most reliable vehicle"), I moved from California to Pennsylvania. A month later the Lexus started losing 95% of its power when cold, nearly stalling. Problem correction involved replacement of both mass airflow sensors and the entire engine wiring harness. I'm certain those won't fail on the Tesla since they don't exist!

Bottom line, drive one and see how you like it. Comfort is equivalent to the Lexus. Safety is far beyond it.

Then if you think it's not for you, find someone who wants it as a NEW car, make financial arrangements and add them as an owner BEFORE you take delivery. After delivery you can get the DMV to remove you from the title. The new owner will have all the rights of an original buyer.

This is just my opinion, make of it what you will.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Darryl, maybe the delay in production of MX vehicles will work out for the best. Mike
Mike Jr:

If you were one of the first 500 you may have something to worry about but considering you have yet to be assigned a VIN and there are already 1,100 in front of you, by the time your car goes into production Tesla should have the issues resolved. Having ordered the Black Onyx wheels may have been a blessing.

I think if you asked Tesla S owners about the quality of their car you would find the satisfaction rating to be extremely high.

Also, others are right, people rarely make positive comments on forums. All you normally see are complaints. If you notice there are less than 50 users who post most of the negative content. You will see the same complaints over and over again. Some of these users have never seen a Tesla and have no plans on ordering a Tesla. They are just negative people who like to rile things up.

On the other hand my VIN is 000251 and I am scheduled to pick my car up at noon on Friday. I do have some concerned and have decided to hold off on selling my existing car until I know the X is reliable. As we discussed last month you are welcome to join me when I pick up my car. Maybe this will help you make a more informed decision.
_______________
Reservation #8143 | Order Confirmed 12/17/15 | Prod VIN 0251 | VIN Assigned 12/23/15 | P90D | Titanium Metallic | Tan Leather | Ash wood | Light Headliner | 20" silver helix wheels | Premium upgrade | Autopilot | Six seat (2-2-2) | Towing | 72 Amp Charger | Delivery Scheduled for 2/26/16 | Orlando Service Center
Please update "http://ModelXTracker.com" with information about your Model X order.
 
Take what you read here with a grain of salt.

Model X VIN Sig 265 is my 4th Tesla. My only concern is when can I get Sig VIN 732 (probably early March).

We have driven our first X 5,000 miles in less than two months. I finally got around to taking it in today to get a few minor items addressed. Painless.

The service center actually called me and ask when it would be convienient to bring it in because they wanted to ensure everything was perfect. I could have waited a year to get it in and it would have been no problem.

I met another Model X buyer while at the service center who was unable to get a test drive appointment so instead of heading home I gave him and his friend a two hour owner guided demo drive. He was stunned at how responsive and controlled the X is. He could not stop using auto drive. Loved it. Headed home to confirm his order.

The X is an amazing machine and absolute joy to drive.
 
Mike Jr:

If you were one of the first 500 you may have something to worry about but considering you have yet to be assigned a VIN and there are already 1,100 in front of you, by the time your car goes into production Tesla should have the issues resolved. Having ordered the Black Onyx wheels may have been a blessing.

This is what I'd say too. I actually cancelled my Signature Model S order and got back in line for a production Model S, and I'm glad I did; by getting a somewhat later build number, I had a lot less trouble than the person I know who got a Signature. You'll probably be fine.
 
To All Forum Members - Thank you for all the information that you have provided across the Tesla Motors Club forums. With all the testimonials, images and opinions, along with our first hand interaction with the Model X, we chose to cancel our MXP90D order today. I will not spell out our reasoning in detail. However, I will share for those that are interested, that there were two overriding concerns that we could not overlook: A - The Fit & Finish of the three Model X that we experienced was not up to par compared to any vehicle we have owned, luxury or non-luxury. B - The lack of a folding second row seats was a loser for us. It just was not something that we could ultimately tolerate or compromise our needs and desires, just to own the vehicle.

Finally, we asked ourselves one question: Take away the novelty of all electric, if we were in search of a new vehicle and comparing it to any other vehicle of our choosing, would we give it serious consideration for ownership. Both of answered with a sound 'no'.

Thank you to all and Best Wishes,

Mike
 
What is troubling about the Tesla Motors products, is that they seem to be plagued with knit-picky and recurring issues: From these forums, I have read the Model S has/had tire wears issues, drive unit issues, and had an endless amount of production issues coming right off the production line.

I drove my new Model S off the lot on March 7, 2014. In that time, I've had one door handle stick, and condensation in one rear tail light.

Forums like this are lightening rods for complainers and for people to post problems. Plus, if you praise Tesla, you get labelled a "fanboy" and there seems to be more reward here for criticism than praise. I've got most of reputation points for my criticism of Tesla rather than my praise of them.

Yes, there are problems with Tesla. And I'm not involved with the Model X roll out so I can't comment on your concerns there, which seem valid to me. I just take issue with your comment that the Tesla Model S is "plagued" with issues. Reading this forum, I'd probably feel the same, but owning the car, I know something completely different, which is the immense joy I get everyday from driving my car.

My wife's BMW, my Tahoe Hybrid, and our family's Nissan Leaf have all be in the shop much more than my Tesla. Plus, my Tesla is the best material thing I have ever purchased. Thankfully, this forum wasn't nearly as brutal on Tesla when I came here to read comments before deciding to buy.

I'm sorry to see you'll miss out on that pleasure.

Now bring on the fanboy comments... ha!
 
To All Forum Members - Thank you for all the information that you have provided across the Tesla Motors Club forums. With all the testimonials, images and opinions, along with our first hand interaction with the Model X, we chose to cancel our MXP90D order today. I will not spell out our reasoning in detail. However, I will share for those that are interested, that there were two overriding concerns that we could not overlook: A - The Fit & Finish of the three Model X that we experienced was not up to par compared to any vehicle we have owned, luxury or non-luxury. B - The lack of a folding second row seats was a loser for us. It just was not something that we could ultimately tolerate or compromise our needs and desires, just to own the vehicle.

Finally, we asked ourselves one question: Take away the novelty of all electric, if we were in search of a new vehicle and comparing it to any other vehicle of our choosing, would we give it serious consideration for ownership. Both of answered with a sound 'no'.

Thank you to all and Best Wishes,

Mike

Mike you will be missed.
 
To All Forum Members - Thank you for all the information that you have provided across the Tesla Motors Club forums. With all the testimonials, images and opinions, along with our first hand interaction with the Model X, we chose to cancel our MXP90D order today. I will not spell out our reasoning in detail. However, I will share for those that are interested, that there were two overriding concerns that we could not overlook: A - The Fit & Finish of the three Model X that we experienced was not up to par compared to any vehicle we have owned, luxury or non-luxury. B - The lack of a folding second row seats was a loser for us. It just was not something that we could ultimately tolerate or compromise our needs and desires, just to own the vehicle.

Finally, we asked ourselves one question: Take away the novelty of all electric, if we were in search of a new vehicle and comparing it to any other vehicle of our choosing, would we give it serious consideration for ownership. Both of answered with a sound 'no'.

Thank you to all and Best Wishes,

Mike

MikeJr, did you lose your deposit? is TM still going to build your confirmed car?
you spec'd it really nice, maybe somebody can pick it up with a discount.

good luck on your search
 
Common to become a victim of "Forum Induced Anxiety".

Some posters seem to become super focused on negative aspects, and even potential negative aspects. In some respects this can be very cathartic and a way for people to vent off steam, however it also has the potential to over produce unrealistic concern over a purchase.

.

Common to become a victim of "Forum Induced Optimism".

Some posters seem to become super focused on positive aspects, and even potential positive aspects. In some respects this can be very encouraging and a way for people to look past problems, however it also has the potential to over produce unrealistic optimism over a purchase.