To Elon Musk RE: My Former Model X

[NicoV]

They acknowledged my issues could not be fixed properly by 3rd parties, they tried.

And like I said before anyone with a paint meter can see your car has had paint work and that deminishes value.

Every mile you drive also diminishes values. Are you obsessed as much with driving the minimum amount of miles to preserve value?

 

[NikeWings]

Source of the latter? These would disagree with you, at least in terms of "proved" reserves.

The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency
Saudi Arabia - International - Analysis - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

While production numbers are easier to validate, reserves of all types, are less so. They are self reported and full of cited irregularities. As such, there are a multitude of sources which allow for almost any of the top 5 to land the number one spot depending on preferences.

Here are a couple of links to support the OP.
EIA Production numbers are more recent than you cited, There is also an interesting slide to track the ranking changes over a period of years. Technology has played a massive role in the last 5, driving much of the shifting. International - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
And for reserves, the EIA site allows for toggling from production, to reserves where the self reported numbers are listed. And this is one example of an attempted normalization of the self-reporting differences among countries. U.S. Has World’s Largest Oil Reserves | OilPrice.com.

 

[3Victoria]

Much of the US reserves are in shale, ie expensive in $ and even more environmentally unfriendly.

And the conclusion of that last report: 'Rystad concludes: “this data confirms that there is a relatively limited amount of recoverable oil left on the planet.” It goes on to caution that business-as-usual won’t work. “With the global car-park possibly doubling from 1 billion to 2 billion cars over the next 30 years, it becomes very clear that oil alone cannot satisfy the growing need for individual transport.” '

 

[N5329K]

Behaving as though a finite resource is infinite never works out. Whether the resource is whale oil or shale oil. Fortunately, I don't think we'll need to run out of the stuff to learn the lesson, thanks to Tesla. Something better has come along to motivate vehicles, and the oil sector might worry more about the world leaving it behind.
Robin

 

[purplewalt]

You should take notice because QUALITY CONTROL obviously sucks! And in the long run and at much bigger scale problems will kill your/Teslas profits.

I suggest you schedule some time and effort to take a tour of the Tesla factory @ Fremont.

And observe all the continual care, sophisticated and highly technical testing and retesting of body panels for manufacturing, assembly,fit, tolerances, finish, etc.: the quality control is off the charts.
Your words attempt to minimize and diminish the extensive efforts to ensure a premium product is being manufactured and delivered.
So NO, until you take the four of the Fremont factory, you are uninformed and completely wrong when you say quality control sucks.
If you have any ethics you will be embarrassed for the words you have written and the tactics you are trying to employ.


I do not doubt that there might have been some issues with any of the three cars that were brought to Austin for you to take delivery.
If you LIKE the car, then take it home and enjoy it.

If you DON'T like the car because it does not meet all your criteria (including quality control), leave it at the Service Center, and get your deposit back.
Simple enough.
Go find something else in this big old world to complain and grouse about.

 

[Electroman]

I don't know why so many people are trying to argue with the OP about his OWN preference. He wants a MC pearl white car with perfect paint and obviously Tesla is not able to satisfy him (they tried). He's moving on. I don't see any issue with someone demanding perfect paint job on a 100k+ car. It's reasonable.

Nothing unreasonable about that. Everyone has a right to get twisted about anything they think is important. If paint, is more important than driving dynamics and technology and EV experience then sure, there are plenty of gas cars that drives crappy but has excellent paint.

What is unreasonable and OP is getting a lot of flak are these comments:

EV and driver assistance is meaningless to me I don't commute anywhere.
At 2 bucks a gallon EV makes almost no sense for the premium you are paying.
Over paying for a car that STILL RUNS ON COAL OR OTHER FOSSIL FUELS is just kidding your self.
Those Lithium batteries are also horrible for the environment.
cut the crap Fanboys.
a fool and his money are soon parted," well I am no fool.
Because you have low standards makes you the greater fool not the EV advocate.

If you want an eye-candy garage queen, that is perfectly allright. But with that kind of an attitude, why even bother with an EV and waste everyone's time?

 

[TheQ]

Nothing unreasonable about that. Everyone has a right to get twisted about anything they think is important. If paint, is more important than driving dynamics and technology and EV experience then sure, there are plenty of gas cars that drives crappy but has excellent paint.

What is unreasonable and OP is getting a lot of flak are these comments:



If you want an eye-candy garage queen, that is perfectly allright. But with that kind of an attitude, why even bother with an EV and waste everyone's time?

A typical straw-man deflection argument, I came in here complaining about car issues and paint being the biggest and people start asking why do you care about paint when you have this awesome Tech EV state of the art machine.....I answer honestly, and then the FANBOYS like you cant wait to criticize my opinions and facts about oil vs EV to try to make it about something else.....its old, move on.

People like me who are having issues with paint and other fit and finish (and there is a very long list of us and many articles about it out there) have a right to be upset when treated poorly by Tesla when dishing out over 100k for cars and waiting years to get them.

 

[TheQ]

I suggest you schedule some time and effort to take a tour of the Tesla factory @ Fremont.

And observe all the continual care, sophisticated and highly technical testing and retesting of body panels for manufacturing, assembly,fit, tolerances, finish, etc.: the quality control is off the charts.
Your words attempt to minimize and diminish the extensive efforts to ensure a premium product is being manufactured and delivered.
So NO, until you take the four of the Fremont factory, you are uninformed and completely wrong when you say quality control sucks.
If you have any ethics you will be embarrassed for the words you have written and the tactics you are trying to employ.


I do not doubt that there might have been some issues with any of the three cars that were brought to Austin for you to take delivery.
If you LIKE the car, then take it home and enjoy it.

If you DON'T like the car because it does not meet all your criteria (including quality control), leave it at the Service Center, and get your deposit back.
Simple enough.
Go find something else in this big old world to complain and grouse about.

again this is just ignorance.....if QUALITY CONTROL was up to spec they would not have to order me 3 cars and there would not be 10's of articles out there about all the issues the Model X is having......again wake up, put down the Kool aid, and get real.

The car is at the Service center and I am getting 113k back.

 

[NikeWings]

Much of the US reserves are in shale, ie expensive in $ and even more environmentally unfriendly. And the conclusion of that last report: 'Rystad concludes: “this data confirms that there is a relatively limited amount of recoverable oil left on the planet.” It goes on to caution that business-as-usual won’t work. “With the global car-park possibly doubling from 1 billion to 2 billion cars over the next 30 years, it becomes very clear that oil alone cannot satisfy the growing need for individual transport.” '

Hi @3Victoria , this thread has veered off topic but I want to respond to your comments, particular since you took the time to read the article.

There was a time when unconventional E&P along with the transportation challenges from such remote shale areas were quite costly. However, the last decade of R&D dollars delivered amazing technology these past 5 years that dramatically reduced E&P costs from shale while simulataneously improving recovery rates. You may be associating your statement with your local Canadian Tar Sands impact, which has not experienced the same improvements primarily because of weaker technology investment and greater bitumen content. Thus the downturn saw Canadian production drop moreso than the U.S., which actually saw growth in areas like the Permian Basin due to lower break even costs from horizontal drilling technologies. Environmental issues also improved dramatically but not perfect, nor ever will be. Just wanted to point out that shale in & of itself does not mean it's more costly and/or environmentally more harmful than non-shale production as you stated. For macro support, compare the past 10 years of US production where conventional production shifted to a majority of unconventional production, while the cost per Bbl dropped from $50-$70 to $20-$30 depending on locale.

Good quote you selected! Yes indeed oil is limited. The concept of reserves does not imply unlimited resources, but the continued discovery of new unconventional reserves has inappropriately led many to speculate, believe, and espouse it. It's silly. Even the sun has a projected shelf life.

I'm very happy to take an Oil E&P discussion off thread. Dislike me if you will, but I love the entire energy industry. I have been committed to the tech side of E&P as well as the tech side of Renewables for 20 years. Everyday I'm fortunate enough to work with big oil's efforts to balance tech efficiency and effectiveness, as well as big industry's advanced manufacturing of next gen wind turbines, utility scale solar technology, improved nuclear waste management and yes, even better battery technologies as chemicals such as many lithium variants are quite toxic. Our world continues to transform to a better place but it's not because we drive Teslas, grow our own food or capture our own sunpower etc. Almost every company on the planet has a vested hand in this, including the ones most often hated. Tracking their progress is as critical as reporting on the problem.

 

[PtG62901]

again this is just ignorance.....if QUALITY CONTROL was up to spec they would not have to order me 3 cars and there would not be 10's of articles out there about all the issues the Model X is having......again wake up, put down the Kool aid, and get real.

The car is at the Service center and I am getting 113k back.

I think I agree with you, we know delivery quality isn't very good from Tesla historically. It is understandable because of their level of innovation, but still high. They aren't Honda yet. They have made up for it by providing service, to make the problems go away. The problem you have is they can't fix a paint job by providing good service. It think ordering 3 cars for you is great service. I hope my issues receive such outstanding service going forward.

We know things are way better then a couple of years ago, and will get better yet. I am very happy to have ordered a blue car, and not a white car at this point. lol

I think the attacks got too personal, and it would have been better to have everyone take a deep and calming breath, and walk away. If I was the OP, I would stop reading this thread, stop the auto notices, and just ignore it. If you don't have anything new and constructive to say, just leave it alone.

 

[ecarfan]

Again you guys are way to hung up on EV......its not an excuse to build cars with poor fit and finish. the only person that is parting you from your money for less value than you deserve is TESLA, and that's the point. Over paying for a car that STILL RUNS ON COAL OR OTHER FOSSIL FUELS is just kidding your self. Unless you have solar panels on your house, your car is still gets a majority of electricity from fossil fuels. Those Lithium batteries are also horrible for the environment

After reading that obviously false statement, and what you have said inother posts you have made in this thread, it seems likely to me that you are deliberately intending to create controversy and distorting reality to stir people up.

I no longer give you the benefit of the doubt and now must approach everything you say with my mind open to the possibility that nothing you have said is true or accurate, including your original post about paint quality complaints. On the internet it is easy to make stuff up using photos sourced from anywhere.

Go ahead and make some righteously indignant post. I really don't care. You have no credibility with me.

 

[purplewalt]

again this is just ignorance.....if QUALITY CONTROL was up to spec they would not have to order me 3 cars and there would not be 10's of articles out there about all the issues the Model X is having......again wake up, put down the Kool aid, and get real.

The car is at the Service center and I am getting 113k back.

Yes there is ignorance here.
Just not on my part.

Wake up and smell the coffee.
No Kool aid in my cupboard BTW

 

[TheQ]

Hi @3Victoria , this thread has veered off topic but I want to respond to your comments, particular since you took the time to read the article.

There was a time when unconventional E&P along with the transportation challenges from such remote shale areas were quite costly. However, the last decade of R&D dollars delivered amazing technology these past 5 years that dramatically reduced E&P costs from shale while simulataneously improving recovery rates. You may be associating your statement with your local Canadian Tar Sands impact, which has not experienced the same improvements primarily because of weaker technology investment and greater bitumen content. Thus the downturn saw Canadian production drop moreso than the U.S., which actually saw growth in areas like the Permian Basin due to lower break even costs from horizontal drilling technologies. Environmental issues also improved dramatically but not perfect, nor ever will be. Just wanted to point out that shale in & of itself does not mean it's more costly and/or environmentally more harmful than non-shale production as you stated. For macro support, compare the past 10 years of US production where conventional production shifted to a majority of unconventional production, while the cost per Bbl dropped from $50-$70 to $20-$30 depending on locale.

Good quote you selected! Yes indeed oil is limited. The concept of reserves does not imply unlimited resources, but the continued discovery of new unconventional reserves has inappropriately led many to speculate, believe, and espouse it. It's silly. Even the sun has a projected shelf life.

I'm very happy to take an Oil E&P discussion off thread. Dislike me if you will, but I love the entire energy industry. I have been committed to the tech side of E&P as well as the tech side of Renewables for 20 years. Everyday I'm fortunate enough to work with big oil's efforts to balance tech efficiency and effectiveness, as well as big industry's advanced manufacturing of next gen wind turbines, utility scale solar technology, improved nuclear waste management and yes, even better battery technologies as chemicals such as many lithium variants are quite toxic. Our world continues to transform to a better place but it's not because we drive Teslas, grow our own food or capture our own sunpower etc. Almost every company on the planet has a vested hand in this, including the ones most often hated. Tracking their progress is as critical as reporting on the problem.

NW in my ideal future US, all power would be HYDRO or fail safe Nuclear and all cars would be EV. Tesla would have perfect quality and fit/finish.......

 

[Saghost]

After reading that obviously false statement, and what you have said inother posts you have made in this thread, it seems likely to me that you are deliberately intending to create controversy and distorting reality to stir people up.

I no longer give you the benefit of the doubt and now must approach everything you say with my mind open to the possibility that nothing you have said is true or accurate, including your original post about paint quality complaints. On the internet it is easy to make stuff up using photos sourced from anywhere.

Go ahead and make some righteously indignant post. I really don't care. You have no credibility with me.

Photos? The OP never gave us any photos at all, not even a set from the internet.

It does seem interesting how many different secondary issues keep coming up, though.

 

[ecarfan]

Photos? The OP never gave us any photos at all, not even a set from the internet.

I went back again and looked through all 9 pages of this thread and you are right, no photos from the OP, my apologies.

 

[Electroman]

@KZKZ, my friend, what took you so long? I have been waiting for you and Drivin to troll away on this topic. I just realized out of the 84 dislikes I have received around 70 are from you and Drivin. I take that as a badge of honor.

I noticed you missed a few. Will you go ahead and make it complete? please..?

 

[thegruf]

refer
To Elon Musk RE: My Former Model X

Napabill had this sussed way back, catch up folks.
No evidence.
Whatsoever.
This one's more than well enough fed now.

 

[Xminus6]

I don't understand. If the EV aspect is unimportant to a buyer, why would you ever buy a Tesla? I think we can all agree that the fit, finish and materials of a Tesla compared to a comparably-priced vehicle are not up to par. That's just out of pure necessity as batteries/motors cost more than engines and associated parts.

The only reason I can imagine you'd want to buy a Tesla, specifically a Model X, if you don't care about the EV part of the car is to show off. The multiple cars you keep bringing up in your posts only reinforce that idea. I understand why you'd be frustrated about your experience and your paint issues and I wouldn't necessarily excuse them myself, but this thread is way past ridiculous by now. You don't want a Tesla, fine, move on and drive one of you other 25 cars.

 

[Electroman]

One thing we all can agree with OP (in his own words):

"A fool and his money are parted".

That reminds me of a corollary out of Murphy's law:

A fool is like a someone on top of a mountain. Everyone looks small to him and so does he to everyone.

-

 

[Jbailey]

I'm not an engineer or paint specialist, and I haven't actually seen the paint job, but this sounds like an Axis 2 Cluster B paint problem.

As I understand it, this is a fairly common problem that frustrates many well meaning paint and other service providers. Details can be found in the DSM-5 which if I remember correctly stands for Difficult Shade Matching, 5th edition.