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To emit or not emit? CA vs Trump

msm859

Member
Oct 23, 2019
433
778
California
Just an opening gambit. They’re still playing softball. Hardball comes when CA raises the gas tax to the point where everyone switches to EVs. Wait until the Tesla truck and Y are available.

Actually I would like to see a gas guzzling tax with a formula designed to exempt the manufacturers who have agreed to follow the California requirements. Hit GM with a $1000 - $5000 tax on their trucks and suv's - see how fast they adopt California requirements.
 

msm859

Member
Oct 23, 2019
433
778
California
Price of gas is about the equivalent of $4.75. CAD per gallon in Toronto. As far as I am concerned that should be closer to $10 and I still own 1 gas car but $$$$ is the only thing that changes behaviour consistently.

Only problem with that it would hurt the poor and working middle class. That is why a gas guzzler tax would be better. Use the funds to offer incentives for people to buy EV's.
 
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Struja

"Fanboy"
Jun 27, 2017
1,052
1,075
Toronto, Canada
Only problem with that it would hurt the poor and working middle class. That is why a gas guzzler tax would be better. Use the funds to offer incentives for people to buy EV's.
This is very true but to the extent that the poor and working middle class are over using their gassers they have to learn to modify their behaviour as well.

In our family, my wife’s ICE is our last resort vehicle. Tesla is used for all road trips, family outings, shuttling the kids to and from their activities and where we can, we avoid using either car altogether. I would hate to target middle class and below but even those groups have to modify their behaviour. Half my family is blue collar union workers in Michigan and by in large I’ve never seen a group more reliant on their cars for meaningless stuff (like a visit to the corner store which is in walking distance). My point being, I think we need a culture change.
 

msm859

Member
Oct 23, 2019
433
778
California
This is very true but to the extent that the poor and working middle class are over using their gassers they have to learn to modify their behaviour as well.

In our family, my wife’s ICE is our last resort vehicle. Tesla is used for all road trips, family outings, shuttling the kids to and from their activities and where we can, we avoid using either car altogether. I would hate to target middle class and below but even those groups have to modify their behaviour. Half my family is blue collar union workers in Michigan and by in large I’ve never seen a group more reliant on their cars for meaningless stuff (like a visit to the corner store which is in walking distance). My point being, I think we need a culture change.
I agree we need a cultural change and perhaps more public transportation. It is frustrating the problems we are having building a bullet train here in California. Still a lot of blow back. Sadly too many people have never ridden on one. I have used them in Europe and Japan- Amazing! I challenge anyone to go ride one and come back and say we should not have one.
 

bxr140

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
3,022
4,839
Bay Area
This is very true but to the extent that the poor and working middle class are over using their gassers they have to learn to modify their behaviour as well.

Sure, as long as there’s an educator to guide those less fortunate through learning that new behavior, where ‘educator’ is pretty much any alternative solution that is explicitly not just a policy change which forces the population to figure it out on their own.
 

msm859

Member
Oct 23, 2019
433
778
California
Can you imagine manufacturers having to deal with 50 different sets of requirements for vehicles. National standards make sense and reduce costs. State tax structures are the way to allow differences

Except no one is advocating 50 different standards. At most there would be 2. California's and the states that also want to adopt - and pretty much the rest of the world and then 2 the "other" states that are clueless about climate change. And I am not sure how state tax structures would allow differences. Although if California did lose the ability to set their own standards I would be okay with them adding a gas guzzler tax on vehicles/manufacturers that do not comply. I think a nice $10,000 gas guzzler tax on trucks/suvs on GM, FCA and others who do not want to join the California plan would change some minds.
 

AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,677
4,573
Northern California
There never was a high speed rail project in California. It was a big lie. The average speeds were going to be even less than conventional trains. Total fraud. Was going to take far longer to travel than by automobile.

Real answer would have been Hyperloop.
No kidding. With the ticket price projections I’ve seen, 50-80 dollars, I don’t see why anyone would take the train over flying.

This whole high speed rail project was a massive scam by the public officials to indirectly line their pockets. So much money has been spent already and nothing to show for it.
 

Vic_F

Member
Mar 8, 2015
289
187
Eagle, ID
Except no one is advocating 50 different standards. At most there would be 2. California's and the states that also want to adopt - and pretty much the rest of the world and then 2 the "other" states that are clueless about climate change. And I am not sure how state tax structures would allow differences. Although if California did lose the ability to set their own standards I would be okay with them adding a gas guzzler tax on vehicles/manufacturers that do not comply. I think a nice $10,000 gas guzzler tax on trucks/suvs on GM, FCA and others who do not want to join the California plan would change some minds.

Ca should not have any more rights than another state
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,813
44,369
Michigan
Ca should not have any more rights than another state
Indeed, all states should be able to protect their citizens from pollution.
And given air quality is partly geographic and population in nature, that results in differing abilities of the regions to purge said pollutants. Thus, for all states to be the same, each state must be able to set an allowable maximum pollution emission level. Or adopt the tightest state's level. Less pollution is better.
 

Merle

Member
Apr 5, 2019
167
163
Tahoe
Indeed, all states should be able to protect their citizens from pollution.
And given air quality is partly geographic and population in nature, that results in differing abilities of the regions to purge said pollutants. Thus, for all states to be the same, each state must be able to set an allowable maximum pollution emission level. Or adopt the tightest state's level. Less pollution is better.

Would be interesting for a neighboring State to sue CA because of the mismanagement of the forests, resulting in the massive wildfires in the past few years. The carbon release has been phenomenal.

The Getty Fire. The Kincade Fire. The Tick Fire. The Burris Fire. This is only a partial list of the wildfires raging across California. On Monday evening, firefighters continued to work tirelessly to control multiple, massive fires, both new and ongoing, across the state.
...
While black carbon is not the only concern when it comes to wildfire smoke, concerns have been raised around how California’s severe wildfires are impacting the state’s overall carbon emissions. In 2018, the carbon emissions released from California wildfires were about 68 million tons — which is about the same amount of carbon emissions that are produced to provide electricity to the state in a year.

The above was from a Salon article, but references can be found throughout the web.
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,813
44,369
Michigan
Would be interesting for a neighboring State to sue CA because of the mismanagement of the forests, resulting in the massive wildfires in the past few years. The carbon release has been phenomenal.



The above was from a Salon article, but references can be found throughout the web.

Maybe for transitory air quality, but the carbon released by burning the trees is the same carbon previously sequestered by the trees. So, in the same vein, one could then sue states for not having forests.
 
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