To go ELECTRIC or not? That is the question...

[Lasttoy]

I ask everyone to calculate my 125k miles with no gas, oil , filters. They just get the deer in headlights. They dont get it till they see the numbers. The next question is how do i charge at home. I explain i installed a 14.50 plug.
Oh, i installed solar system on roof.
This the most fun in a lifetime, explaining why it saves to own a Tesla.

 

[Merrill]

You can always come up with excuses why you do not want to do something, EV’s are something that requires a little thinking. I hear it all the time, will not fit in my garage, cannot go on a trip without stopping, how do I charge, nobody does the 10 year cost of ownership comparing all electric to gas. Also none of these even begins to talk about the environment.

 

[FlyinLow]

Another resource to help explain things. Most people in serious denial of the “EV advantage” won’t believe me alone. Got to site sources like Forbes:

SAP BrandVoice: Seven Reasons Why The Internal Combustion Engine Is A Dead Man Walking [Updated]

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

I do still think it's worth the investment to get a HPWC. There's also a durability issue. A HPWC is going to hold up much better under daily use than a UMC. I've killed 2 UMCs in ~5 years.... though I'm sure being limited to 32A will help with longevity.

Wait, so off topic, but I keep getting errors when trying to charge at 40 amps with my UMC. First 18 months, no problem. Next six, it kept dropping to 35 amps, now I’m down to 30 amps. If I bump it up, the next morning I have charging errors and it charged at 30 Amps. All upstream is solid.

Of course, Tesla says it’s OK.

So I’ve worn out the UMC?

 

[nwdiver]

Wait, so off topic, but I keep getting errors when trying to charge at 40 amps with my UMC. First 18 months, no problem. Next six, it kept dropping to 35 amps, now I’m down to 30 amps. If I bump it up, the next morning I have charging errors and it charged at 30 Amps. All upstream is solid.

Of course, Tesla says it’s OK.

So I’ve worn out the UMC?

Is your UMC hot or does it look discolored or melted? It might just be voltage sag from the utility line... that will make the car slow charging too.

 

[FlyinLow]

Wait, so off topic, but I keep getting errors when trying to charge at 40 amps with my UMC. First 18 months, no problem. Next six, it kept dropping to 35 amps, now I’m down to 30 amps. If I bump it up, the next morning I have charging errors and it charged at 30 Amps. All upstream is solid.

Of course, Tesla says it’s OK.

So I’ve worn out the UMC?

Speculation:

UMC firmware gets updated from time to time. Likely Tesla is sticking by the change they made by making all new UMCs 32A max charge rate. Likely a change to increase the longevity of the UMC and reduce the chance of issues with NEMA 14-50 receptacle in long term use.

Might be worth asking Tesla Service if your Gen 1 UMC has been software limited to 30A. Bring it with you the next time you’re at your local service center.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Is your UMC hot or does it look discolored or melted? It might just be voltage sag from the utility line... that will make the car slow charging too.

No heat or discoloration. I’d say 2 nights out of 7 it changes at 40 amps, others down at 30 now. When new, always at 40.

 

[nwdiver]

No heat or discoloration. I’d say 2 nights out of 7 it changes at 40 amps, others down at 30 now. When new, always at 40.

How long have you had your car? The amp curtailment started ~2-3 years ago. Initially the cars would ignore voltage sag. They may have become more sensitive to it. Watch voltage when it charges @40A vs when it charges @30A; I'd bet there's a bigger voltage sag on the nights it drops to 30A.

 

[FlyinLow]

Watching the EV charging station infrastructure building out is interesting. Electrify America is only one of the programs building out EV charging for all to enjoy. Fewer and fewer reasons to hold off buying a BEV.

Welcome to Electrify America | Locations

When a used compact BEV (battery electric vehicle) with 400 miles of range can be bought for the price of a current used Honda Civic or Toyota Corola then we will be truly below price parity... I know. For some, this is what it will take to drive electric...

For the many of us, we wish we had bought a BEV much sooner!

 

[T34ME]

Why? Because adding a solar power system to a house will cost more than the car in many cases. A Model 3 I can buy this year is a minimum of $44,000 before taxes and a medium sized solar system putting out 6kW for an all electric house (3 br, 2 bath, five person family) and that only covers about 60% of the needed electricity for this house with optimal south facing roof. Solar City quoted me $40,000 for this system.

This was my case. I chose not to invest in solar because of the fact that a system covering my whole roof would take 15 years to break even and is only warrantied for 20 years for the systems I've seen. I don't need a new roof, so a Tesla solar tile roof would be an unnecessary cost. Car charging and Winter in PA both negate any Net Metering that is advertised as cost mitigation. A large solar array would be an emotional purchase that my local realtor tells me will decrease the value of my house because it will be "ugly."

The advantages of a PV rooftop system are very much location specific as well as structure specific. So yes, the advantages of a solar system in PA may not be as great as for me in SoCal.

I paid $13K for my Solar City PV three years ago (costs have gone down since then). My system provides for 100% of my electrical needs year round and through net metering, I get a rebate from Edison every January.

Originally the payback on my system was around 7 years, but as a result of increased electrical rates, my payback is now around 5 years.

Rooftop PV demand is skyrocketing in California right now. An existing home with a rooftop system commands a premium on the resale market here.

You represent an edge case in PA. Compare the number of EVs in California to PA. But not to worry, the more PA depends on fossil fuels for home and auto, the sooner you will experience rapid global warming induced wild swings in temperature year round and increased electrical costs and the sooner PV will make more sense to our comrades in PA.

 

[jerry33]

Wait, so off topic

Of course, Tesla says it’s OK.

So I’ve worn out the UMC?

Unlikely. Lowered charging amps are generally caused by incoming power problems. Where I live the incoming power is very poor and so I charge at 33 amps and most of the time it doesn’t drop below 33. The second most common issue is house wiring. Third is what the neighbors are doing. The only way to be sure is to pay a good electrician to check it out. The UMC can have issues, but historically they have been heat related.

 

[brkaus]

Wait, so off topic, but I keep getting errors when trying to charge at 40 amps with my UMC. First 18 months, no problem. Next six, it kept dropping to 35 amps, now I’m down to 30 amps. If I bump it up, the next morning I have charging errors and it charged at 30 Amps. All upstream is solid.

Of course, Tesla says it’s OK.

So I’ve worn out the UMC?

As others have mentioned, it is probably not the UMC.

How did you verify "all upstream is solid"?

How quickly after you start charging does it drop?

If you set the current up to maximum, then plug in and watch the voltage on the center screen what does it do? What is the starting voltage? Does it drop as the current slowly ramps up? Does it jump around? If it drops, how much?

Any heat anywhere else? Check the breaker, the outlet, etc.

What happens if you take the UMC somewhere else?

 

[FlyinLow]

What happens if you take the UMC somewhere else?

Great way to test the UMC.

 

[Skotty]

No one needs a car. But then no one needs a house either. Or electricity. Or a phone. Or a TV. But if possible, we would like to continue enjoying these things, yes?

The bottom line is this. Science says, with almost certainty, that our fossil fuel use, although ushering in an era of prosperity for humanity over the last hundred years or so that we should be grateful for, is ultimately a bad thing and we need to stop using it so extensively or we will begin to pay serious consequences. The only potentially clean alternative to a fossil fueled car is an electric car. Thus, if we want to responsibly continue to enjoy automobiles, the majority of them need to be electric. End of line.

Obviously, we also need electricity to be generated from clean sources as well. That's another topic of great importance. Tesla knows this. It's why Tesla Energy exists, and why Tesla Motors is now Tesla.

 

[nwdiver]

No one needs a car. But then no one needs a house either. Or electricity. Or a phone. Or a TV. But if possible, we would like to continue enjoying these things, yes?

The bottom line is this. Science says, with almost certainty, that our fossil fuel use, although ushering in an era of prosperity for humanity over the last hundred years or so that we should be grateful for, is ultimately a bad thing and we need to stop using it so extensively or we will begin to pay serious consequences. The only potentially clean alternative to a fossil fueled car is an electric car. Thus, if we want to responsibly continue to enjoy automobiles, they need to be electric. End of line.

Obviously, we also need electricity to be generated from clean sources as well. That's another topic of great importance. Tesla knows this. It's why Tesla Energy exists, and why Tesla Motors is now Tesla.

Yep. The honest question is CAR or not. If you chose to have a car then ELECTRIC is morally obligatory....

 

[FlyinLow]

So many choices, We can choose to work close to where we live or live closer to where we work. We can ride a bike or take public transit when it's available. We can choose to live where there is robust public transit.

I choose to live in the country, outside of city congestion, and choose to drive.

 

[FlyinLow]

More discussions lately with smart people who work in the automotive industry brought up resources... metals that go into the heavy duty wiring, motors and battery structure, etc are going to increase in demand, along with the need to prepare for the cost of responsibly recycling batteries now that we see some at the end of their useful life, second life even.
Environmental impact of mining different valuable metals (copper) and concerns over demonstrated recycling program success is starting to plague the minds of legacy vehicle manufacturer executives.
Does Tesla have a detailed battery recycling plan we can read?

 

[FlyinLow]

With Volvo and Mack trucks moving toward electric propulsion as early as 2019 in New York City, it looks like there’s really no more argument against electric vehicle, is there?

Cost. That’s the only thing still finding its way down.

Did horses and carriages cost less than an early automobile? If so why did the more expensive automobile win out for the masses?

When people think this though the natural progression will be away from the gas pump. We’re seeing Accord, Civic and Prius owners trading up to a much more expensive Tesla Model 3...it’s already happening.

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

I know every house and installation can be different, but that is just a crazy figure for a general 6kW system. I would definitely get more quotes.

I agree. I have 7.6kw system with a Solar Edge inverter and 20 year warranty. It was $23,000. After the tax rebate it was about $16,000. When it costs $0 to charge your Tesla (with net metering), solar pays for itself even quicker.

 

[FlyinLow]

Next decision I must face... wait for Tesla’s truck or try another startup’s truck.

Great read here:
How Important Are Electric Pickups to Tesla's Mission? - Tesla Motors Club