To Long Range or Not to Long Range...

[TrickyDimitri]

I replaced my S70 with a 90, because I was afraid to take it on trips. (250 mile range vs 300) There aren't enough super chargers in my area yet. I couldn't drive from Raleigh NC to Asheville, for example, without having to take a major detour through Charlotte. Having a 70 made the dire predictions of my husband true, so I solved that with a bigger battery.

We recently took the S to Atlanta and some pleasant conversations with others waiting for our cars to charge. There was a man who had recently bought a used S60, and he'd left his family at the beach a few hours early. He had to drive at 60mph or less to make it between charging stations. His family was going to meet up with him in a second car to drive the rest of the way home. I couldn't drive below the speed limit on the interstate without popping a blood vessel. Part of the fun is not getting trapped in 3 lanes of traffic that seem determined to keep everyone else boxed. A little nudge to the throttle gets you unstuck, but it does use more energy.

I think it makes the journey more civilized to stop a couple of times and chat with new people. I've learned a lot by talking to owners from all around the country. For example the New Yorkers do all or most of their charging at Superchargers. There are a lot of them up there, but very long wait times. But they don't have a charger in their garage - they don't have a garage.

I know they are building more chargers, so you have to figure where you might want to road trip. How far apart are the chargers?

The new one they are building in Stateville does nothing to help me as our family lives in the mountains of NC and TN. It would be an extra hour drive out of the way to go to the Asheville supercharger, so I will pay for the extra range. I get why they picked Statesville to catch the I-40 traffic, but nobody with any sense in Charlotte would go up the nightmare that is I-77 to hit I-40 going West.

 

[CLACHAPELLE]

The new one they are building in Stateville does nothing to help me as our family lives in the mountains of NC and TN. It would be an extra hour drive out of the way to go to the Asheville supercharger, so I will pay for the extra range. I get why they picked Statesville to catch the I-40 traffic, but nobody with any sense in Charlotte would go up the nightmare that is I-77 to hit I-40 going West.

Thanks! I was wondering where they would build along the I40 corridor, and Statesville looked like the best choice. Do you have an address and ETA?

I have family in Asheville, and grew up about a mile from that charger. It's a great location for me, but I'm sorry it is out of the way for you.

I wonder if they take into account the elevation when they're placing chargers. I can barely make it between Burlington and Asheville in the cold going up almost 3000 ft, but I can skip Burlington entirely going BACK to Raleigh. That's with the 300 mile range.

 

[CLACHAPELLE]

Model 3 will be the second vehicle for us, replacing a Nissan LEAF with 80 miles of range and dropping. Our primary vehicle for road trips will continue to be our Model X. I definitely don't see the value in spending $9,000 on the long range for our usage. The only time I would take the 3 on a road trip would be if my wife and I had to take separate vehicles for some reason and even then the 220 miles should still get me where I am going (especially compared to my current range in the LEAF).

I am not even sure if I really want Autopilot, I could see just getting a color other than black and probably the premium upgrades package.

Just beware that 220 miles isn't 220 miles most of the time not if it's colder than about 60 degrees, you drive faster than 60 mph, you have more than one person in your car or extra weight (luggage), or are going up hill.

I didn't get Autopilot the first time and actually had it foisted upon me the second time. (Fun story) But now I actually like it for longer drives and for keeping me safer while I'm messing with all the screens and functions.

 

[Qbenjamin]

Don't force yourself on the range topic, get what you need. I've taken a couple of road trips in my S60, and I can definitely tell you that it sux to not have the additional range. I look at it from the viewpoint that I don't do it very often (once or twice per year), so is it really worth it to get the bigger battery if you seldomly use it..?

 

[CmdrThor]

Just beware that 220 miles isn't 220 miles most of the time not if it's colder than about 60 degrees, you drive faster than 60 mph, you have more than one person in your car or extra weight (luggage), or are going up hill.

I didn't get Autopilot the first time and actually had it foisted upon me the second time. (Fun story) But now I actually like it for longer drives and for keeping me safer while I'm messing with all the screens and functions.

I am fully aware of the impact of temperature, speed, and elevation on electric vehicle efficiency. The longest drive without charging I'd potentially want to make is 175 miles. If it's cold I'll just drive closer to the speed limit. And worst case, there are plenty of charging options along the way. 95% of my drives in Model 3 will be about 16 miles each way with 0-5 miles being on an interstate that I would likely use Autopilot. Doesn't quite seem worth it.

 

[kwest2]

Wonder what the actual range will be...CNET recently tested VW's e-golf, which was EPA Rated at 125 miles but actually displayed/achieved 145 miles. I was really hoping for a 250 range option and, like others, am struggling on whether $9k is worth it for those 3-6 trips/year. Leaning towards no.

2017 Volkswagen e-Golf electric hatch edges toward 150-mile range

 

[Justmurr]

Funny that I debated starting this very topic myself yesterday and my situation is very similar.
I was so jacked up about getting my 3 in my hands as soon as possible that I jumped all over first production version knowing it was over my self-imposed budget and then slept on it.
It's all relative to your situation and I'm feeling great about my change to the standard battery, the few extra months of waiting are going to be rough but I'm still feeling good about it since I'll actually be able to debate adding EAP...it was out of the question otherwise.
The wife is drawing up a contract for me to sign that states how this is indeed my final decision.
Now ...should I actually sign it or not?

 

[EchoDelta]

The mass majority of my driving for the Model 3 will be around town, so the smaller battery would work just fine. The rub is, both my wife and I have family that live a little over a 100 miles away. We make that trip often and the 220 mile range is just enough to scare me off. I am planning to fork over the extra $$ for the additional range. I also have very high hopes for this car and plan on having it for a long time. I'm sure some longer road trip vacations will be in our future.

If I were you I'd offer to help them install a NEMA 14-50, regardless of your battery choice.

 

[gambit48]

Yeah, I think for the great majority of people, particularly if they have more than one car, the base is more than adequate.

We're one of the very few people who can justify needing the longer range. My wife has a 100+ mile commute each way. Granted it's only once or twice a week, but the base wouldn't be adequate once you take into account environmental factors, a slight battery degradation, and Tesla recommending you keep the battery at @80% charged. There is a Supercharger or 2 along that way, but she doesn't want to have to stop with such a long commute/day. Just wants to get home.

No destination charging at her workplace and surprisingly, the Bay Area has relatively very few Supercharger stations (even planned ones) and none close to her work.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I drive an old-style S60 and well over half my miles are road trips, so I am familiar with the slow Supercharging and having to drive slowly and be careful on longer (140+ mile) trip legs. In general, the bigger battery cars Supercharge twice as fast as my S60 (yes, really). Nevertheless, I make it work and have taken it on a number of 2000+ mile road trips, without difficulty (but I monitor my range carefully). My limit is 550-600 miles per day but I am usually in no hurry and can deal with fourteen hour driving days.

Some things I'd like to point out about the Model 3 "standard" versus "long range":

• The standard 3 will Supercharge faster and have a somewhat longer range than my classic S60.
• Tesla is adding infill Supercharging Stations along many routes (by this time next year all of my 140 mile trip legs, except one, will be gone). Means more, but shorter, stops and easy highway speed driving between them.

So, if they plan to only take road trips a few times a year, and don't plan to do so in adverse weather, many owners will find the standard 3 adequate for their needs. For serious road-trippers, however, pay the $9000 and get the long range version.

Some advantages of the long range versus standard:

• The battery warranty is good for more miles on the long range 3.
• The larger battery will be cycled less for a given mileage, so less degradation over time.
• Increased resale value (you will get some of that $9000 back someday, unless you keep the car until the wheels fall off).
• Road trips are quicker and easier. By a lot.
• The long range 3 will be quicker off the line than the standard, for those who care about such things (I don't, 5.6 seconds is plenty fast).
• Greater ability to deal with inclement weather on road trips.

My 2¢.

 

[h2sux2]

I'm in the same boat.
I've been driving an 80mi range LEAF for 4yrs.
And while, yes I only use it locally (work, groceries, kids, etc) it has serve me well.
(I've only taking twice in a trip to SF-Sacramento ~240mi round trip in those 4yrs)

Do I want it all? Yes. But we also have an SUV that would most likely be our road-trip car, and 220mi w/supercharger would actually allow us to do road-tripping. And $9k would pretty much pay for Premium and AP.

I think, however, that I would miss the acceleration, the faster recharge rate, and the fact that it has a better cushion for battery degradation. I can't make up my mind either.

For the base I have an estimate of Jan-Mar 2018, so if that proves to be accurate, I don't think that I'd have issues with the fed credit. (I suspect that it would be fully available until end of June 2018).

 

[Qbenjamin]

Wonder what the actual range will be...CNET recently tested VW's e-golf, which was EPA Rated at 125 miles but actually displayed/achieved 145 miles. I was really hoping for a 250 range option and, like others, am struggling on whether $9k is worth it for those 3-6 trips/year. Leaning towards no.

2017 Volkswagen e-Golf electric hatch edges toward 150-mile range

In my S60 I only receive about 70% of my max range due to the highway speeds in FL being 75-80 mph. In the city, even in bad congestion, my range barely moves away from the rated milage due to lower speeds (less energy consumption).

 

[gambit48]

I don't think the difference in acceleration should matter to anyone. Half a second is too close to really notice. Especially when the base model is already down to 5.6 seconds. That's already really fast for a non-performance model of a car. Unless you plan on drag racing the thing, 5.6 is plenty fast for just driving around town or merging onto the freeway.

 

[PRSIST]

So, when the prices were announced, I was pretty well convinced I should get the long range version "First Available" version. Partly because I felt that it would "Guarantee" the full $7500 fed rebate, partly because I know my situation is changing as my wife and I will be moving at 2x in the next two years (Wife's fellowship then her getting a full time job), and partly because my plan is to keep the car for 10 years and wanted to have the extra range as who knows what my situation would be.

However, my wife has a SUV. This is what we use for nearly any long range trips as it has more cargo room and is a very comfortable, quiet ride. I work 100% from home (for now) and I am putting maybe 100-150 miles on my car a week depending on the errands I need to run. The furthest I drive on a regular basis is to a costco about 60 miles away once a month. And even then, there is a supercharger not too far from the costco and a car charger at the whole foods across the street.

I don't anticipate ever taking a job where the commute was over 50 miles each way daily. I'm in IT and more telecommute gigs open daily. As I was doing the math, even if I planned to keep the car 10 years, after tax and interest on 9k would add up to $9600 on a 5 year loan. So, over 10 years, thats 960 a year. That's $80 a month for a feature that currently I would utilize maybe utilize 2-3 times a year? That seems....steep? And looking at the "Depreciation" of the battery on the S, it doesn't look like the range will drop to something like 150 miles. And it also appears that as long as I take delivery of my car in Q1/Q2 of next year, I should be fine for the rebate.

Am I missing something obvious here? Or does taking the long range in a two car household where one is a long range SUV make little sense?

This is over simplification, but I think you will understand what I am recommending. I would buy a golf cart with 310 miles of range before buying a tricked out Model S 60 with maybe 210 miles of range.

Hope that helps. Get the most for what you can afford...you won't regret it. Remember that stuff happens, your circumstance can thake a turn you don't expect. Boy Scout Motto: Be Prepared.

 

[shrspeedblade]

I don't think the difference in acceleration should matter to anyone. Half a second is too close to really notice. Especially when the base model is already down to 5.6 seconds. That's already really fast for a non-performance model of a car. Unless you plan on drag racing the thing, 5.6 is plenty fast for just driving around town or merging onto the freeway.

-It doesn't matter to you, which is really good for your wallet, but that doesn't mean it won't matter to others.

-Half a second is equal to about 50hp in a car this size, the fact that the LR is half a second quicker while being over 250lbs heavier means it traps higher which equals better passing power, which people want/need more than 0-60 anyway. A number of people will notice.

-I agree completely that 5.6 is still pretty darn quick and plenty fast for driving around/merging/etc.

-If I planned on taking it drag racing I'd continue saving my pennies for a CPO P85D!

 

[voize_reazon]

If I were you I'd offer to help them install a NEMA 14-50, regardless of your battery choice.

Not a bad idea..

 

[gambit48]

-It doesn't matter to you, which is really good for your wallet, but that doesn't mean it won't matter to others.

-Half a second is equal to about 50hp in a car this size, the fact that the LR is half a second quicker while being over 250lbs heavier means it traps higher which equals better passing power, which people want/need more than 0-60 anyway. A number of people will notice.

-I agree completely that 5.6 is still pretty darn quick and plenty fast for driving around/merging/etc.

-If I planned on taking it drag racing I'd continue saving my pennies for a CPO P85D!

True. I'm sure it will matter to someone. There's always some exception out there. I'm just curious as to who you think it would matter to. Just some hypothetical. By matter, I mean it's one reason to choose to pay the $9,000 rather than it just being a side benefit. I mean, I'm certainly not complaining about it being faster, but I'm paying the $9,000 for the extra range. I'm paying for the range whether or not it's faster than the smaller battery or not.

Like you said, anyone taking it drag racing is better off with a CPO P85D.

 

[Shock-On-T]

I drive about 80-90 mile trips to my parents to visit. I think in 5-10 years i can still make it with no problem. Especially if i just plug in when i get there, an have a few extra miles of juice on my way home.

I agree if 10 years is your plan, you might enjoy EAP or even full autonomy better by then

I installed an HPWC at my parents place. Bought second hand, installed myself. Easy.

 

[WileyTheMan]

..and then suddenly we wanted to take the Tesla on any trip where it was feasible, because it was so much nicer to drive.

See, I envision myself like this. Just itching for an excuse to take a trip with the fam and the New Toy, and not worry about gassing up (see, its still in my vocabulary) so much.

 

[tccartier]

So, when the prices were announced, I was pretty well convinced I should get the long range version "First Available" version. Partly because I felt that it would "Guarantee" the full $7500 fed rebate, partly because I know my situation is changing as my wife and I will be moving at 2x in the next two years (Wife's fellowship then her getting a full time job), and partly because my plan is to keep the car for 10 years and wanted to have the extra range as who knows what my situation would be.

However, my wife has a SUV. This is what we use for nearly any long range trips as it has more cargo room and is a very comfortable, quiet ride. I work 100% from home (for now) and I am putting maybe 100-150 miles on my car a week depending on the errands I need to run. The furthest I drive on a regular basis is to a costco about 60 miles away once a month. And even then, there is a supercharger not too far from the costco and a car charger at the whole foods across the street.

I don't anticipate ever taking a job where the commute was over 50 miles each way daily. I'm in IT and more telecommute gigs open daily. As I was doing the math, even if I planned to keep the car 10 years, after tax and interest on 9k would add up to $9600 on a 5 year loan. So, over 10 years, thats 960 a year. That's $80 a month for a feature that currently I would utilize maybe utilize 2-3 times a year? That seems....steep? And looking at the "Depreciation" of the battery on the S, it doesn't look like the range will drop to something like 150 miles. And it also appears that as long as I take delivery of my car in Q1/Q2 of next year, I should be fine for the rebate.

Am I missing something obvious here? Or does taking the long range in a two car household where one is a long range SUV make little sense?

Is your current car an EV? If not then GET THE EXTRA RANGE!! You will find "like many" that the car is just so good that you will likely drive much more than you would a gasser because the driving experience is sooooo much better!! You might find that your gas SUV is parked and collecting dust and you will be in a competition with your wife every day to see who gets to drive the Model3. Lololol !!

And as has been mentioned in this thread factors such as changing weather conditions or unexpected headwinds along your route can turn what normally would be easily done into a range anxiety ridden experience at 10-15 mph or more below the speed limit just to reach your next plug. And you really will likely drive a Model3 more than you currently drive your gasser.

IMHO range is KING and the "Buy the biggest battery you can afford" still rings true ESPECIALLY for those like me who are using their Model S / X / 3 as their only vehicle!