To MCU2 or not to MCU2?

[Zuikkis]

@Droschke just reboot. This has happened to many people, including me.

Just got MCU2, Proximity Sensors don't engage automatically

I don't know if this is just part of the upgrade, but 2 things I have noticed right away after getting my MCU2 upgrade. a) The proximity graphic is no longer on the driver dash, but only on the main console screen (annoying) b) The proximity sensors and graphics don't automatically engage when...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Droschke]

@Droschke just reboot. This has happened to many people, including me.

Just got MCU2, Proximity Sensors don't engage automatically

I don't know if this is just part of the upgrade, but 2 things I have noticed right away after getting my MCU2 upgrade. a) The proximity graphic is no longer on the driver dash, but only on the main console screen (annoying) b) The proximity sensors and graphics don't automatically engage when...

teslamotorsclub.com

Thanks @Zuikkis - Just a bit more info:

- I did a factory reset before turning in my MCU1 to the service center just to erase all my stuff from it and start from a clean page with MCU2.
- When I got the car back from the service center, first I did another factory reset to avoid facing any issues some owners have been reporting when certain features/settings were not working properly and that a factory reset fixed it for them (in my case, I was not losing any settings due to the pre MCU2 install factory reset I had performed).
- I then reconfigured all the settings the way they were with MCU1.
- I also remember I rebooted only once which was a week ago (just to test the reboot with MCU2).

Based on your experience, I'll reboot one more time and will report the results back here.

Thanks again.

 

[Droschke]

Thanks @Zuikkis - Just a bit more info:

- I did a factory reset before turning in my MCU1 to the service center just to erase all my stuff from it and start from a clean page with MCU2.
- When I got the car back from the service center, first I did another factory reset to avoid facing any issues some owners have been reporting when certain features/settings were not working properly and that a factory reset fixed it for them (in my case, I was not losing any settings due to the pre MCU2 install factory reset I had performed).
- I then reconfigured all the settings the way they were with MCU1.
- I also remember I rebooted only once which was a week ago (just to test the reboot with MCU2).

Based on your experience, I'll reboot one more time and will report the results back here.

Thanks again.

@Zuikkis - You are a genius A simple reboot fixed it. The chime and the IC visuals are all back. Now I have to hope that it stays that way.

Thanks again.

 

[gearchruncher]

FYI, for people still considering this, take the path I did. Pay Tesla for MCU2 and then sue them to get the money back since the car was under warranty but could no longer do what was advertised:

How to sue Tesla over historical claims

I sued Tesla in small claims and won. Twice! You can too. I had two claims: I have a car with AP2.5. Tesla advertised this car as having “all hardware needed for full self driving capability.” When I went to subscribe to “Full Self Driving Capability,” Tesla required a $1,000 hardware upgrade...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[wooter]

FYI, for people still considering this, take the path I did. Pay Tesla for MCU2 and then sue them to get the money back since the car was under warranty but could no longer do what was advertised:

How to sue Tesla over historical claims

I sued Tesla in small claims and won. Twice! You can too. I had two claims: I have a car with AP2.5. Tesla advertised this car as having “all hardware needed for full self driving capability.” When I went to subscribe to “Full Self Driving Capability,” Tesla required a $1,000 hardware upgrade...

teslamotorsclub.com

By the looks of it you successfully misrepresented your case, and Tesla didn't show up to defend.

HW2.x cars get a free upgrade to HW3.0 if you buy FSD. If you don't have FSD, you don't get the upgrade. If you get the FSD subscription, Tesla requires you to buy the upgrade for 1K, since you can cancel the subscription after 1 month and not pony up the full amount required to make the upgrade worthwhile.

MCU1 is compatible with HW3.0 and FSD, but lacks some visualisations. MCU2 is not a requirement for FSD and HW3.0.

 

[gearchruncher]

HW2.x cars get a free upgrade to HW3.0 if you buy FSD. If you don't have FSD, you don't get the upgrade.

You say this like it's an undisputed fact, but it's not, it's a Tesla policy, and policies can be wrong (and 100% are in this case)

I bought a car before HW3 even existed. Tesla advertised the car as "having all hardware needed for FSD." The HW3 upgrade policy came into effect AFTER the car was purchased.

The judge found that them requiring $1000 for a HARDWARE UPGRADE to subscribe to FSD constituted false advertising.

If Tesla felt this was easily defendable, they should have shown up. They would have needed to explain how FSD was different than FSD. It was their choice to offer subscriptions to FSD. It was their choice not to show up to court. And their leader says they show up every time they are right, and zero times when they are wrong... Tesla's decision to not show is 100% their fault, and could easily be seen as not having a sufficient legal basis to defend.

Even without the "buying" FSD question, the fact the car couldn't do stop light chimes because it doesn't have the "FSD Computer" would constitute damages.

My MCU2 claim was based on the fact that MCU1 could no longer do what it was advertised to do- voice recognition and mapping. Tesla acknowledged this was a SW bug with no known resolution date, and wanted $2,000 to solve it with MCU2, despite the car being under warranty.

However, not a single person with MCU1 has received FSD, so I'd like to see Tesla say in a court of law under oath that MCU1 is compatible with FSD. They also charge more to upgrade MCU2 if you have HW2/2.5, so if all you want is MCU2, you still have to pay more because the car doesn't have HW3. Which are damages for false advertising as well...

 

[Krash]

…Tesla's decision to not show is 100% their fault, and could easily be seen as not having a sufficient legal basis to defend…

How many times has Tesla shown up on small claims court, for any reason?

…I'd like to see Tesla say in a court of law under oath that MCU1 is compatible with FSD…

Neither MCU2 nor MCU3/Z are compatible with FSD because FSD doesn’t exist. Only FSD Beta exists.

 

[gearchruncher]

Neither MCU2 nor MCU3/Z are compatible with FSD because FSD doesn’t exist. Only FSD Beta exists.

Tesla sells a product called "Full Self Driving Capability." You can buy it in the app. They sell it as a outright purchase, as well as a subscription.

Tesla advertised: "All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver."

Tesla will not let you subscribe to "Full Self Driving Capability" without a hardware update. They want money for that hardware update.

Clearly the car did not have all hardware needed for full self driving capability, per Tesla's own purchase process.

At no point in the process is Full Self Driving called beta. It's just a thing Tesla lets you buy, but only if you have specific hardware.

This is not hard or complicated. There are only a few facts here that need to be presented to prove false advertising.

Also, EVERY autopilot feature is beta even after 6 years- so Tesla is going to have to explain what that means, and when a customer is actually owed what they paid for. I imagine a judge would not be very open to Tesla saying "yeah, it's been 6 years, and we've had FSD on HW3/MCU2 for a year now, but don't worry, it will come someday, so this owner has no claim."

Which of course would require them to state, in court, under oath, that FSD will come to MCU1.

People are confusing the FSD Beta software for the product Tesla sells which is called Full Self Driving Capability. They won't sell you FSD Capability without a hardware upgrade. This tells you all you need to know to show that the advertisement was false.

How many times has Tesla shown up on small claims court, for any reason?

I have no idea. But I do know for a fact they have reached out to multiple people BEFORE the case ended up in small claims and settled with them. You can see it in the public records.

 

[Krash]

Full Self Driving Capability is not Full Self Driving. Full Self Driving does not exist yet. Hence the word “capability”. When you state…

…we've had FSD on HW3/MCU2 for a year now…

We haven’t had FSD. Because FSD doesn’t exist yet. We’ve only had FSD Beta.

People bought something that doesn’t exist. People bought the capability for it to exist. And I’m sympathetic to those who were “fraudulently induced” into thinking it would already be finished.

But your logic does not hold. Tesla will not be required to…

…state, in court, under oath, that FSD will come to MCU1…

because of course Tesla can’t know whether it will work until it is finished. And it’s a reasonable argument for Tesla to make that, when FSD is done, if it doesn’t run on HWx or MCUx, that Tesla will upgrade those then, but that until it is finished, Tesla doesn’t have to upgrade them.

 

[gearchruncher]

We haven’t had FSD. Because FSD doesn’t exist yet. We’ve only had FSD Beta.

So you also agree that Traffic Aware Cruise Control, Autosteer, Auto Wipers, Summon, and Auto park don't exist either?

Don't forget, City Streets Autosteer has been coming "This Year" since 2019. So anyone could easily sue over the delay in release of that too. Beta is not some magic get out of litigation free card. Tesla has misrepresented the timeline just as much as the hardware requirements. If I had paid for FSD CAPABILITY in the past, I would have taken Tesla to court over loss of use.

Anyway, what is you point of arguing here? Tesla had their chance with me to make all these arguments to an impartial judge, and decided not to. You trying to keep others from taking Tesla to court?

 

[dark cloud]

So you also agree that Traffic Aware Cruise Control, Autosteer, Auto Wipers, Summon, and Auto park don't exist either?

Not yet, but they are close...

getting closer...

getting really close now..

 

[Rottenapplr]

If money considerations isn’t an issue and youre sitting on considerable wealth I would upgrade and trade, but I don’t see the option of barely driving the car and buying another car for a moderate upgrade in computer speed and interface improvements compelling.

 

[2101Guy]

I love how persons are desperately trying to cling on to something..a word here, word there..to TRY to defend Elon in his false advertising/deceptive marketing. The allegiance to Elon is admirable.

But sorry. Gearcruncher (And others) took it to the court of law. And in return, got their court costs AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS awarded to him/them.


A court win resulting in thousands of dollars awarded? Is a win. Period.

Even better? Gearcruncher gets to share all of the details and strategy for others to use if they choose.

Congrats again, Gearcruncher!

 

[vcor]

One solution is for Tesla to stop the sale of FSD subscriptions, or charge a $1199 first-month fee that just happens to include a free HW3 upgrade. I would hate for Tesla to do that, but a slight restructuring of the offer would solve the problem. Likely not what anyone really wants, but I guess they may be forced to by those that sued Tesla.

 

[2101Guy]

One solution is for Tesla to stop the sale of FSD subscriptions, or charge a $1199 first-month fee that just happens to include a free HW3 upgrade. I would hate for Tesla to do that, but a slight restructuring of the offer would solve the problem. Likely not what anyone really wants, but I guess they may be forced to by those that sued Tesla.

Or, just maybe, Tesla could have also been more succinct/crisp/clear in what they are offering/were offering, etc, as it relates to what FSD (or FSDb or FSD capability, or FSD Timeline, etc) can ACTUALLY do/Will actually do, and very specific info on the hardware and its limitations. And saying owners would be held responsible financially for any new hardware needs as time went on.

But if they would have stated that very crisply/clearly upfront? Not sure the FSD take rate would have been as high as it was.

Selling the dream (vs reality) is a well known old school marketing strategy...and cant deny that its often still highly effective.

 

[gearchruncher]

One solution is for Tesla to stop the sale of FSD subscriptions, or charge a $1199 first-month fee that just happens to include a free HW3 upgrade. I would hate for Tesla to do that, but a slight restructuring of the offer would solve the problem.

As long as they charge that $1199 fee to EVERYONE, regardless of what hardware they have.
The instant they had differential pricing based on your hardware, there is basis for a false advertising claim.

 

[AndrewTX]

You say this like it's an undisputed fact, but it's not, it's a Tesla policy, and policies can be wrong (and 100% are in this case)

I bought a car before HW3 even existed. Tesla advertised the car as "having all hardware needed for FSD." The HW3 upgrade policy came into effect AFTER the car was purchased.

The judge found that them requiring $1000 for a HARDWARE UPGRADE to subscribe to FSD constituted false advertising.

If Tesla felt this was easily defendable, they should have shown up. They would have needed to explain how FSD was different than FSD. It was their choice to offer subscriptions to FSD. It was their choice not to show up to court. And their leader says they show up every time they are right, and zero times when they are wrong... Tesla's decision to not show is 100% their fault, and could easily be seen as not having a sufficient legal basis to defend.

Even without the "buying" FSD question, the fact the car couldn't do stop light chimes because it doesn't have the "FSD Computer" would constitute damages.

My MCU2 claim was based on the fact that MCU1 could no longer do what it was advertised to do- voice recognition and mapping. Tesla acknowledged this was a SW bug with no known resolution date, and wanted $2,000 to solve it with MCU2, despite the car being under warranty.

However, not a single person with MCU1 has received FSD, so I'd like to see Tesla say in a court of law under oath that MCU1 is compatible with FSD. They also charge more to upgrade MCU2 if you have HW2/2.5, so if all you want is MCU2, you still have to pay more because the car doesn't have HW3. Which are damages for false advertising as well...

Do you think a similar claim would be accepted if your car is no longer in the warranty period?

 

[Akikiki]

FSD is a project within Tesla. It has at at least one Project Manager. Ask the Project Manager. Project Managers don't lie, however the truth changes.