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To P or NOT to P...

tanner

Active Member
Nov 17, 2013
1,118
286
SoCal
Okay, so I currently have a 2013 P85 (specs in sig or HERE: Mint Condition P85 with LOW MILAGE (7,800mi) - $72,000 OBO) and I want to trade up to a car with autopilot - I tested it yesterday and now I'm hooked :love:!!!!! The only thing is, when comparing the P85D and the 85D, the $30,000 difference is pretty big, especially for shaving off a second for the 0-60 time.... But here's my real question, my current car does 60 in 3.9 seconds (85D does it in 4.2), how much will I really notice the .3 second difference between my existing Model S and the 85D I'd most likely upgrade to? Was anyone else in a similar situation? Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays!
 

luvnMyTS

Member
Jan 6, 2015
340
203
Los Angeles, CA
I just posted something regarding the P90D versus P85D, Ludicrous versus Insane on Tesla's other site. While not certain, based on Tesla saying that a P85D upgraded to Ludicrous will not be as quick as P90D with Ludicrous. My P90D without Ludicrous appears to be quicker than a P85D (2.97 versus 3.2 0-60). Point being, for $3,000 instead of $30,000 you might consider upgrading to a 90D. If the same holds true, the 90 kWh puts out a little power, its possible that the 4.2 0-60 for the 85D might improve by a couple of tenths. Again, just possible.

As far as seat of your pants, probably won't fee much of a difference. If anything, you might feel the 85D or 90D is a little quicker since with All Wheel Drive, it will have better traction and launch out of the hole quicker. Just might not carry the same speed all the way to 60 MPH with less horsepower. But your butt feels torque more than it feels horsepower, so it's likely the 85D or 90D would "feel" quicker to you, despite taking an additional couple of tenths to get there. And for the $3,000, you might get it to where it's almost identical. Worst case scenario would be that it's the same speed, but you've added 6% range.

That was another test I did. I had read where most were showing only a 4% gain in rated range from a 90D versus an 85D. Tesla states "about" 6%. However, on my P90D, I did my first full range charge to 100% and it gave me 269 miles of rated range, versus a P85D being rated at 253. So I got a 6.3% increase in range on my car. 90D, if the same, would increase from 270 to 286/287 rated range.
 

mwulff

Member
Jan 15, 2015
348
25
Danmark
I have driven all the cars you mention and honestly the difference is minimal. Ask yourself how often do you launch the car at full throttle? If the answer is anything but "almost all the time" then get a non-P model.
 

JeffS

Member
Oct 7, 2015
239
48
Wisconsin
I puttered around with this decision. You can see from my sig, I ended up with an 85. No D, no P. The price difference was $50,000.

It was not hard for me to cave on the P. I don't race. And even if I did, the 85 beats 95% of the cars out there. In WI, I strongly wanted a D, but after staring at the numbers for a while, realized I could buy a Tesla AND a Tahoe for the price of the P85D. That's just me though.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,706
22,703
Texas
I have driven all the cars you mention and honestly the difference is minimal. Ask yourself how often do you launch the car at full throttle? If the answer is anything but "almost all the time" then get a non-P model.
^^^^ This. The P is really more about bragging rights than anything else. (Of course, if money is no object, then why not?)
 

dirkhh

Middle-aged Member
Jul 7, 2013
3,638
126
Portland, OR, USA
I ended up buying the P85D and if I had the chance to re-do the decision I'd definitely go with the 85D.
After the first few times of demonstrating it I think I haven't switched the car into insane mode in something like 6 months.
And in non-insane mode the difference to an 85D is almost non-existant.
 

Caligula

Member
Oct 14, 2015
596
149
San Diego
FWIW, I've lamented "not getting the V8" on more than one occasion. I believe this would be more livable if the top end didnt suck so much.
 

tanner

Active Member
Nov 17, 2013
1,118
286
SoCal
I ended up buying the P85D and if I had the chance to re-do the decision I'd definitely go with the 85D.
After the first few times of demonstrating it I think I haven't switched the car into insane mode in something like 6 months.
And in non-insane mode the difference to an 85D is almost non-existant.
Out of curiosity, why don't you leave it In insane mode all the time? Does it degrade range?
 

NorCalSJ

Member
Aug 14, 2014
136
0
Silicon Valley
I ended up buying the P85D and if I had the chance to re-do the decision I'd definitely go with the 85D.
After the first few times of demonstrating it I think I haven't switched the car into insane mode in something like 6 months.
And in non-insane mode the difference to an 85D is almost non-existant.

funny how you can have two opposite opinions from two different P85D owners. I don't do launches but I love the power at my fingertips. My car stays in Insane mode all the time. I'm also upgrading to the Ludicrous next week and can't wait. If I was to buy now I'd go with the P90D.
 

tanner

Active Member
Nov 17, 2013
1,118
286
SoCal
FWIW, I've lamented "not getting the V8" on more than one occasion. I believe this would be more livable if the top end didnt suck so much.
Do you regret not getting the P?

- - - Updated - - -

funny how you can have two opposite opinions from two different P85D owners. I don't do launches but I love the power at my fingertips. My car stays in Insane mode all the time. I'm also upgrading to the Ludicrous next week and can't wait. If I was to buy now I'd go with the P90D.
Your 0-60 will only increase by .2 though with the L upgrade...
 

mferris

Member
May 10, 2015
35
1
Cary, NC
As an observation - I have and 85D and drove a P85D as a loaner last week. The P was within 1000 serial numbers of my car and both about 3000 miles on the ODO. I may have just been me but the P felt lighter and much more fun to drive even without stomping on it. Same wheels, same steering setting, same suspension. I don't know if the larger rear motor puts more bias on the rear end power but as I drove it in Insane mode the entire day it felt much more natural and sporty even when I was just driving within normal commute parameters. May have been the accelerator pedal sensitivity or just the freaking motors. But there is nothing wrong with the 85D, it silently passes/leaves everyone but felt heavy in comparison.

If this holds true when I get closer to my next car - I will consider the P (or comparable alternative manufacturer if it exists). First world problems.
 

tanner

Active Member
Nov 17, 2013
1,118
286
SoCal
As an observation - I have and 85D and drove a P85D as a loaner last week. The P was within 1000 serial numbers of my car and both about 3000 miles on the ODO. I may have just been me but the P felt lighter and much more fun to drive even without stomping on it. Same wheels, same steering setting, same suspension. I don't know if the larger rear motor puts more bias on the rear end power but as I drove it in Insane mode the entire day it felt much more natural and sporty even when I was just driving within normal commute parameters. May have been the accelerator pedal sensitivity or just the freaking motors. But there is nothing wrong with the 85D, it silently passes/leaves everyone but felt heavy in comparison.

If this holds true when I get closer to my next car - I will consider the P (or comparable alternative manufacturer if it exists). First world problems.

No, the difference in weight between motors is negligible, even the performance motor is only the size of a watermelon.
 

benf

Member
Oct 20, 2015
140
15
Yorba Linda, CA
(85D does it in 4.2)

FWIW, in my actual testing with the vbox, the 85D hits 60 in 3.9 seconds, not 4.2 if you're comparing things apples to apples with the 1 foot rollout. Tesla shows 0-60 numbers for the P models with a 1 foot rollout and 0-60 for the non-P models without, which is silly.

I went through the same struggle, and I felt the 85D was a happy medium in terms of performance per dollar. I wanted the P, but couldn't justify $30k for 1 second 0-60. 1 second is a lot, don't get me wrong, I just decided having a second (or third) car to throw my dogs in was a better use of the $30k.
 

Kandiru

Active Member
Oct 20, 2014
1,212
395
USA
710G243rXVL._SL1500_.jpg
 

tanner

Active Member
Nov 17, 2013
1,118
286
SoCal
FWIW, in my actual testing with the vbox, the 85D hits 60 in 3.9 seconds, not 4.2 if you're comparing things apples to apples with the 1 foot rollout. Tesla shows 0-60 numbers for the P models with a 1 foot rollout and 0-60 for the non-P models without, which is silly.

I went through the same struggle, and I felt the 85D was a happy medium in terms of performance per dollar. I wanted the P, but couldn't justify $30k for 1 second 0-60. 1 second is a lot, don't get me wrong, I just decided having a second (or third) car to throw my dogs in was a better use of the $30k.
Are you sure? Everything I've read seems to indicate 4.3... Including this: https://m.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2yy6ka/model_s_85d_060_much_better_than_advertised
 

mwulff

Member
Jan 15, 2015
348
25
Danmark
I had a P85D as a loaner for a week and after that week I was happy to get back into my regular S85 RWD. I prefer it to the D-models because of the front-motor whine. Now granted it's not extremely loud, but it is a noise that is there all the time.

If I were to upgrade from a P85 to an autopilot car I would probably go 85D or 85. Especially in SoCal where there is more "jam than traffic" ;). But lets face it: All Teslas (even the 70-non D) has more than enough power for any regular driving situation and will destroy almost any ice car from a red light.

I personally don't get why it would be worth it to spend $30-50k more just to shave a few seconds of a 0-60 time that is already low.

Since the suspension on the P and non P models are now the same there is no real difference in driving dynamics anymore. Just choose between comfy (air suspension) or a little more sporty/planted (coils, and they are really comfy too).

I would rather have an S85 + large stack of index stocks than a P85DL and no stocks. But that is really a personal choice and everybody should spend their money as they like.
 

cinergi

Active Member
Sep 17, 2010
2,176
40
MA
I had a 2012 P85 and traded it in for a 90D and I don't regret it. It's just as fast (better on low end due to increased traction) and gets more range than it's P counterpart...
 

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