Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

To Performance or not to performance... AWD? P? I can't decide!

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I've seen people say this on this forum and another forum, but never understood. Can you or someone explain? What is the point of having breaks if the tires stop the car? And how do tires stop a car? I am clueless. Thanks.

On the off chance someone can use this info from your masterful troll.

Brake pads and rotors (or drums) convert the mechanical energy of your vehicles motion into heat by applying friction from the pads against the rotors. Pads are fixed mechanically to the car, rotors are fixed mechanically to the axles. At this point, most vehicles have brakes strong enough to slow the vehicle they're on faster than the tires can handle, which is how you hear the skidding sound a tire makes when stopping. Basically the tire's grip runs out long before the brake pad's grip on the rotor.

Repeated hard braking causes heat to soak into the rotors and pads, though, which starts to cook the pad material and glaze them. Basically polish them into a smooth shiny surface, which can't apply the same level of friction anymore. On top of that, brake fluid starts to boil in the caliper assembly, turning it into a compressible gas, which means when you press the brake pedal you need to pump it to produce enough pressure to re-compress the boiled fluid plus push fluid into the cylinders to operate the brakes. This process starts to run away, as glazed pads are pushed harder and harder to produce stopping force, heating them longer and more quickly, causing them to glaze more and eventually produce gasses that collect between the rotor and pad surfaces, preventing you from stopping at all. This will get worse and worse until the pads fail, the rotors warp from the heat, all of your brake fluid boils off, or all of the above.

Larger rotors act as a more efficient heat sink, and the increased friction surface applies more stopping force with less effort over a larger area. Larger pads also require less force to produce the same amount of friction, and have more area to shed heat from. All of this combines to keep the entire system cooler over repeated hard braking events, and preventing most of the negative things I described. Damage can still be done, but it takes more repeated, harder abuse.

Another benefit that the P3D has is the two part rotors. Typically, because the rotor assembly is all one cast unit from where the pads interface through to where the hub, wheel, and rotor are attached, the metal contracts and expands as one large unit. This can produce warping, uneven expansion, and generally produces a lot of vibration and pulsing pedal during hard driving. In a worse case scenario, you can see failures in rotors by having cracks form. But that's pretty extreme. By having two physically separate pieces of dissimilar metals, Tesla allows the friction surface to expand and contract as it needs, but the mating surface between wheel/rotor hat/hub remains consistent. This eliminates all of those effects, but usually two piece systems are much more expensive.

</mansplain>
 
If you'd like a detailed breakdown of what each part of a cars braking system does, and does not do... and what benefits you can (and can't get by upgrading any of them, I strongly recommend this article-

GRM Pulp Friction

It's written by a moderately well known professional brake systems engineer who has done brake design and testing work for GM, Ford, Stoptech, and others, written books on brake system design, and teaches SAE master classes on the topic... (also does a decent bit of track racing himself)

The ultimate conclusion of course being if you want to stop your car shorter, you need to upgrade your tires, not your brakes. Since the tires are what actually stop the car.
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there will be some kind of difference between an AWD with 4s tires and P. The surface area of the pad and caliper have to be worth something in there.


No, they really don't have to be worth anything (and factually aren't for a normal stopping distance test).

Read the link I posted to understand the physics of why that's the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrDabbles
So what did you do OP?

I went for a quick drive in my AWD 3 last night, and it is a damn quick car. If you aren't doing track days I think the AWD car is plenty for anyone. Fear of missing out drives us to make non rational decisions some times and I almost went P because of that but I'm really happy I didn't. AWD is plenty. With federal and CO tax credit 42,5k for the AWD (without EAP) is also an amazing price IMO.
 
You wont be disappointed, the P3D is more than anyone needs. That said I bought a P3D and have no regrets!

This car has changed my life, literally. Autopilot in traffic and for long trips is gold. The performance is thrilling and the car is solid.

For now at least my commute is so much shorter down 85 with the carpool lane. Not sure if it will soon be clogged with Teslas, lol!
 
  • Like
Reactions: astrowunder
Well I was supposed to take delivery yesterday of my new AWD MSM on white interior. They delivered the wrong interior color. Luckily there are some inventory cars arriving next week and I will be rematched to a new VIN and given the correct MSM on white.

Not sure how they missed this...
 
My P100D still never gets old. While the price difference was quite a lot for the X, not so much with the M3. Still,i am glad I got a used P vs a brand new non-P. I am now considering trading my RWD M3 for the performance model.
I just bought an M3P to replace my M3 AWD. Bought it today, Dec 16th. It is being delivered Tuesday the 18th. Whoo-hoo!
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrDabbles
Good to know. Thanks! I was worried my car was going to be a customer reject.

After they delivered the wrong color last week, they said they had some inventory cars coming in this Tuesday. So I was a bit concerned the car I wanted was available so quickly and thought maybe it was a customer reject car. Turns out the vin is higher than the wrong one they delivered anyways. New one is 147,xxx
 
I have my final contract now. It says the car has 50 miles on the odometer. Is this normal for a new car?

My AWD M3 had about 50 miles on it. There are some minor paint issues that Tesla is correcting, making me think that my car might have been rejected by an original purchaser due to the nearly 50 miles on it. Regardless, it is an awesome car, and the Telsa warranty is superb. So happy that I purchased a M3P.