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Assuming the car has been full charged in 'normal mode', does anyone know how long it takes to fully charge into 'range mode' using a 14-50 at 240V? I'm particularly interested in this for the 40kWh battery. Does anyone have real experience on this with the 60kWh battery? My commute is only about ~15miles a day but I expect to occasionally drive ~100 miles a day. The problem is that I won't know too far in advance when I'll be doing the ~100 mile day. Given that I could be considered an aggressive driver I'm wondering whether the 40 kWh battery is sufficient given what I now know about degradation over life.
After reading a L.A. times article that stated they were getting ~160 miles on the 85kWh battery I'm now concerned about those ~100 mile trips. My original thinking was that I would be able to do that easy with the 40kWh battery in 'normal' charge. Now I'm not so sure that the published EPA/Tesla numbers are a good guide. Can anyone confirm that the EPA number is arrived at in 'range' mode?
After reading a L.A. times article that stated they were getting ~160 miles on the 85kWh battery I'm now concerned about those ~100 mile trips. My original thinking was that I would be able to do that easy with the 40kWh battery in 'normal' charge. Now I'm not so sure that the published EPA/Tesla numbers are a good guide. Can anyone confirm that the EPA number is arrived at in 'range' mode?
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Yes--EPA uses a range charge. You can see that the rated range is 265 miles (in the 85 kWh car) on a range charge.
Once there are more timer choices, which should come with future upgrades, you will just be able to set the finish time at X, plugin overnight, and not worry about it. If the "too far in advance" is only twenty minutes, then you'll have a problem without an HPWC and twin chargers.
The rule of thumb when selecting battery size is to get the largest battery you can afford. Battery degradation is known to be not bad for the Roadster, it's speculated that it will be better for the Model S but really it won't be known for a few years.
Especially since you are in California with so many Superchargers I'd consider a 60kWh with Supercharger access anyway. 100 Miles of aggressive driving would be way to close to a 40 kWh standard charge but easily within a 60kWh standard charge.
Thanks for the confirmation Jerry. Do you know what the EPA range is when charging in 'normal' mode (or where I can find that information)?
Affordability is hard metric to go by. I'm not a big fan of taking out a loan to buy a car. But with a loan I could get the 60, or even 85 kWh, battery. However, with less 15 miles in my round trip commute, I find it very hard to justify 85 kWh. If it was only $7K to increase to 60 kWh I'd have a lot less difficulty with bumping up to the next size. For what ever reason, it is more cost effective to go from 60 to 85 kWh than going from 40 to 60 kWh. It would have been nice if they provided a more flexible pricing selection when it came to battery size.
Bottom line, $10K is a lot of money and I'd want to be sure I'd get real value for it. Adding another $2K just makes it more difficult since I don't plan on taking road trips -- but then again, one never knows the future. At a plus up of $12K, one wonders why not just get the 85 kWh battery (only $8K for a 25 kWh addition). But, by then I've slid down to the bottom of that slippery slope :biggrin:.
Affordability is hard metric to go by. I'm not a big fan of taking out a loan to buy a car. But with a loan I could get the 60, or even 85 kWh, battery. However, with less 15 miles in my round trip commute, I find it very hard to justify 85 kWh. If it was only $7K to increase to 60 kWh I'd have a lot less difficulty with bumping up to the next size. For what ever reason, it is more cost effective to go from 60 to 85 kWh than going from 40 to 60 kWh. It would have been nice if they provided a more flexible pricing selection when it came to battery size.
Bottom line, $10K is a lot of money and I'd want to be sure I'd get real value for it. Adding another $2K just makes it more difficult since I don't plan on taking road trips -- but then again, one never knows the future. At a plus up of $12K, one wonders why not just get the 85 kWh battery (only $8K for a 25 kWh addition). But, by then I've slid down to the bottom of that slippery slope :biggrin:.
roblab
Active Member
I agree with above posters: charge to standard mode, then when you are about 45 minutes from leaving, switch to range mode (use the app), and it will be ready to drive away. My experience is that charging in range mode and then NOT leaving it sit, but driving on out is less damaging to the batteries.
Also, I would like to politely say that I used to be "aggressive", but it is quite easy to back off a notch and get a lot more range. I set the car on cruise, move one lane to the right and take it easy. I always get better range than the EPA average, and I get there feeling better, living longer. After a while it is more fun to see how well your power graph goes, instead of your speedometer.
I could drive crazy and cut my range in half, but why? That's only for LA Times, or NYT reporters who want their names immortalized in the annals of simple mindedness.
Also, I would like to politely say that I used to be "aggressive", but it is quite easy to back off a notch and get a lot more range. I set the car on cruise, move one lane to the right and take it easy. I always get better range than the EPA average, and I get there feeling better, living longer. After a while it is more fun to see how well your power graph goes, instead of your speedometer.
I could drive crazy and cut my range in half, but why? That's only for LA Times, or NYT reporters who want their names immortalized in the annals of simple mindedness.
Also...if you r in California....remember the $2500 state refund (a check for $2500 mailed out to you) is only given for 60 or 85kw batteries...NOT the 40kw.
This means the effective cost of the upgrade is $10000-$2500 = $7500. Close enough to your desired cost of upgrade! (About $7000)!!!
I think all Californians should be explicitly told this by Tesla reps or right in the online design studio! Seems like the 40 to 60kw upgrade would be a lot easier to stomach knowing this. (The do a good job of letting you know that the 40kw will not supercharge).
can anyone comment on other states? Are there states rebates available for the 40kw battery in other states (or states that only rebate the biggest battery or have any other weird restrictions?
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
@fizzazzle, there's no reason for the California $2.5k rebate not to be made available to the 40 kWh Model S as well the moment Tesla starts production and gets through the paperwork with the CA CVRP folks. Note that the 60 kWh version didn't show up on the list of eligible vehicles till a couple of weeks after the 60s started rolling off the line in Fremont. And, the 40 kWh pack is larger than the capacity of pretty much every other eligible EV out there barring other Tesla-powered EVs.
Whether funds will remain in the CVRP project - atleast for the early 40s - is another matter.
Whether funds will remain in the CVRP project - atleast for the early 40s - is another matter.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that is a correct argument. The 40kWh is not on the list yet because it is not out yet. Once it is out it will be added just like the 60kWh. The battery size of the 40kWh is still twice as large as other EVs so there is no reason why it won't qualify for the refund once it is out.
As for the other advice about range charge, I agree with what's mentioned.
1) Don't hesitate to use it if you feel there is a chance you need it, as long as you don't do it everyday it should not be a significant impact on life. From what I can tell of the battery life charts, even if you range charge every day you will still be able to match the warranty (125k miles to 70% SOC capacity left for 60kWh pack). Of course you can do better if you don't do it everyday.
2) range charge as late as possible (1-2 hours before leaving allowing for charging time) to minimize the amount of time the car is at 100% SOC. The time the battery is at 100% SOC (or extremely close) seems to have a bigger impact than range charging.
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My biggest concern about buy the 40kWh would not be the range today, but rather the range 8 years from now. Battery degradation is still an unknown. My second biggest concern would be the lack of supercharging capability, which consigns the Model S to being an around-town car. It's far too nice a car to be so limited!
But back OT, when I'm planning to take a trip of above ~140 miles, my practice has been to Standard charge the car overnight, then flip to Range charge about 90 minutes before I go. (Voltage at my house is only 208.) At 240v, it should only take an hour to go from Standard range (which will likely be about 235 if it's sat for some time after completing the charge) up to the 265 Range charge level, but I'd still want to give yourself a bit of time margin and start the Range charge about 75 minutes before you plan on leaving.
This is all easy to do now that the smartphone apps are out. It will be even easier once Tesla adds timed charging....
But back OT, when I'm planning to take a trip of above ~140 miles, my practice has been to Standard charge the car overnight, then flip to Range charge about 90 minutes before I go. (Voltage at my house is only 208.) At 240v, it should only take an hour to go from Standard range (which will likely be about 235 if it's sat for some time after completing the charge) up to the 265 Range charge level, but I'd still want to give yourself a bit of time margin and start the Range charge about 75 minutes before you plan on leaving.
This is all easy to do now that the smartphone apps are out. It will be even easier once Tesla adds timed charging....
I didn't think it made sense either!!!! (Given how the 40kw battery on the MS still has more range then any other EV...).
Thanks for the correction...and sorry to anyone I may have confused (or cost another $10000 convincing you to upgrade!)
I'd still say the 60 kw for added range and supercharging is the better option...but to each their own
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