TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Top Gear Chris Harris Drives P100D vs Porsche 911R

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by mdevp, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. mdevp

    mdevp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    524
    Location:
    nj
    I can't quite get a read on how he feels about the car, is he a bit biased? He seems not to know even some really basic things about EVs. Especially about EVs driving around from 100-130mph.
    Chris Harris Drives: the Tesla Model S P100D
     
    • Informative x 2
  2. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,262
    Location:
    Redwood Shores, CA
    Meh. Yet another ICE fan struggling to come to terms with a paradigm shift.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 1
  3. Tiger

    Tiger Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    416
    Location:
    Estonia
    I wonder what they'd say, if Tesla made a just that much more cozier interior, and fast acceleration up to 150 mph.
     
  4. bhzmark

    bhzmark Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,717
    I thought it was actually pretty sincere and honest and overall strongly positive
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    5,492
    Location:
    California
    Yes, he was sincere about his bias. :D
     
    • Like x 1
    • Funny x 1
  6. SSedan

    SSedan Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Greenville Wisconsin
    I only watched the first half, but honestly what seems to be missing is outside Germany how many folks ever go over 100mph in their sedan?
    I traded in a sedan that would do 160mph on a used P85, in two years I had hit 100mph once on a single pass at the dragstrip. For a true drivers car the electric response sub-60mph is what makes the Tesla so great. I get to enjoy the crisp electric response every time I get in the car, not once have I ever gotten to 140mph(130mph just once) and I have owned a several vehicles that could do it.

    The handling in the Model S is very good, not great but definitely good enough to exceed the speed limits on most corners on public roads so the one trick pony comment is not valid.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. 12Pack

    12Pack Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2017
    Messages:
    88
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    #7 12Pack, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    Indeed I thought it was a pretty positive review from a guy that drives race cars and doesn't really understand or appreciate the efficiency benefits of an EV.

    What was not really ok was to compare the Model S for the pure driving enjoyment of a 911r. As a Model S (100D) owner who drives a full on manual V12 Vantage in the weekend, I certainly appreciate the latter's ability to run rings around the Models S for pure analog driving pleasure. I'm on track about once per month - and that's no place for a Model S.

    And at the same time I appreciate the Model S for its serene and controlled ride when the aim isn't just pure driving. Indeed the rest of the family will no longer get into the Vantage with me because "it's too rough".

    Especially since he complained about the price, perhaps would have been more appropriate to compare it to an S class. I think it's interesting that ICE luxury cars are so appreciated for the quality of their interior when in fact they just do the same old stuff in a more fashionable way. The Tesla does ground-breaking stuff without having to have fancy leather to further its appeal.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Disagree x 1
  8. McRat

    McRat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    4,224
    Location:
    Norco, CA
    #8 McRat, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    Did he really compare a 911R to a P100DL? A 2 seater track car to an 5-7 passenger sedan? The Porsche is more $ and not really useful as a sedan. The 911R appears to have better power to weight.

    Seems he forgot the part of where the Porsche should be warmed up before bouncing the limiter at WOT if you want it to last 1000 miles.

    And skipped the whole "full tank when you wake up, ready to go, it can safely pre-heat in your garage thingy".

    And passengers in the back seat of ANY car get sick if the driver is an arse. I put 4 adults in a luxury mid-priced luxury sedan ($95k), then threw the car around an AutoX course with the nanny's off and max effort. The laps were 0m40s, and at 2 laps, the passengers needed 'fresh air'. The same passengers went on a 550 mile road trip at speeds up to 90mph in complete comfort.

    So my car is a Vomit Comit, or a Lazy-Boy recliner, depending on my skills at controlling a car appropriately for conditions.

    Apparently Top Gear's Chris Harris only learned to drive solo, so he needs more education about how to drive an automobile correctly in different situation. Hauling arse on the street with passengers is for 18 year olds. First time they have to clean puke out of their car, they might learn. Chris has not.
     
    • Like x 6
    • Helpful x 1
  9. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    5,141
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    My thoughts exactly. The author needs to take a course in comparative analysis since he fails on the most important points to consider.

    But I guess it's like the old horse and buggy experts looking at the motorcar. Despite the fact that one is superior is so many ways, they will find ways to rig the game. They have to because their livelihood depends on it. Big oil and ICE related adds pays their bills, puts food on their tables and roofs over their heads and they'll never forget that, even if it some of it comes to the surface unconsciously.

    They know like all of us that the writing is on the wall...

    Britain to Ban New Diesel and Gas Cars by 2040

    China's Fossil Fuel Deadline Shifts Focus to Electric Car Race
     
    • Like x 1
  10. SarahsDad

    SarahsDad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    NC
    At the beginning he states "I've slightly chosen to ignore the whole Tesla thing because it scares me." You could smell the fear through the rest of the video. He's not ready for his whole world to be turned upside down.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. Ande

    Ande Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Norway
    Top gear ? Biased ... Noooo
    Just like they never faked the early Tesla test...
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Funny x 1
  12. McRat

    McRat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    4,224
    Location:
    Norco, CA
    With me it's not so much a superiority thing as a lack of understanding why all cars are not the same.

    The 911R has worse mileage than full sized pickups and SUVs but with a much smaller tank, and no storage or passenger room.

    One Trick Pony. 70 sqft interior, 5 cuft luggage for 2. Constant fuel stops unless you drive like a miser. Traditional Porsche policies and maintenance (no track use, expensive routine maintenance), fast tire wear, tail happy unless you keep nannys on.

    I think it would be a hoot to run a 911R around a track, but I would not drive it to work. A Ford Focus would be a better car for that, even if a Focus cost more than a 911R. A 911R is just slightly up the foodchain from a motorcycle because it has a roof.

    A Model S is INTENDED to be driven on the street. The 911R is ALLOWED to be driven on the street. Big difference.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
    • Informative x 1
  13. VikH

    VikH Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    USA
    Surprised Harris hasn't had much experience with the MS. Overall I feel like they missed a lot of the great features of the car (i.e. range, storage capacity, autopilot, etc...). I also think his passengers were sick from him accelerating the car, not from it being too floaty.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. McRat

    McRat Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    4,224
    Location:
    Norco, CA
    #14 McRat, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    I think Chris should have compared two more similar vehicles.

    The 911R vs Kaw H2 (G2). The H2 seats 2, and with a backpack has the same luggage capacity as the Porsche. It as a closer use profile to the Porsche than the Model 3 does to the Porsche. 2 people, sunny day, stop at a lot of gas stations, attract every cop in 5 miles to your location, then park it and take your real car to work.

    If it's 0 to 150 mph that is now the critical performance criteria, the H2 reaches it in 9 seconds and 400 meters. The 911R does not come even close. Like comparing a crawling on the sidewall vs jogging in the park. It takes the 911R over 12 seconds just to reach 130mph. The H2 can go 0 to 100mph to 0 mph in about the same time 911R can go 0 to 100 mph.

    And just like the Porsche, the H2 is not the fastest version.
     
    • Informative x 1
  15. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    5,141
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    #15 Canuck, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    Is there anyone in a better position than him to understand "why all cars are not the same"? If there was an ICE under the hood of the Tesla how many time do you think we'd see it on the cover of C&D? and how many articles would we see about it?

    Instead, Car & Driver hates Tesla, tells us they will fail since they only build "concept cars" that don't work in reality, and those who run Tesla are so arrogant as to think they are infallible...

    Right C&D -- hit them with a personal ad hominen attack. It's about all you've got left now that Tesla is going mainstream and "Tesla’s Model S outsells Mercedes S-Class, Porsche Panamera, and BMW 6/7 Series combined in the US". You better tell your children to consider another profession if they are looking to follow in your footsteps. We love the coal miners but at the same time their children are much better off finding a different occupation. You better do the same with your kids. Despite your insults, no one needs to be infallible to see the writing is on the wall in large block letters. You can play your unfair comparison games, parading as as a fair and impartial journalist in your comparison reviews, but the cat's out the bag and you'll never get him back in -- you'll only get cut up trying to -- which is fun to watch since I'm on the side of the cat.

    I understand @McRat comes at it from more of a comparison basis than me, and he makes some good points as to why the comparison is a joke, but until we call them out on dishonest journalism that is more interested in self-preservation than proper comparative analysis, we are only telling them to prune the plant when I say the plant needs pulling to deal with the disease. We know that will never happen, and they will go down name calling and using their platform to try to deceive, at least in my view, so I'm not willing to pull any punches with them. They are not impartial car reviewers in my view -- they are lackeys for big oil and the ICE industry through and through. This says all we need to know about them:

    It's classic psychological projection -- C&D is the only who will be dying if they don't change with the times -- not Tesla.

    It's beyond ironic that C&D is telling Tesla to survive by including an ICE -- since that's only needed for C&D's survival -- not Tesla's. An ICE would kill Tesla but they are so blinded by big oil and the ICE industry that they can't even see that, at least not on a conscious level anyway.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,170
    Location:
    California
    I've never seen someone work so hard to dislike something with which he is clearly impressed.
    Note to Chris Harris: That "not quite right feeling" you have is the feeling of being mistaken about your negative preconceived notions of Tesla. From the beginning, you were "scared" you might like the Model S, and your fears were realized.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Love x 1
  17. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    8,016
    Location:
    EU
    Guys, you have to understand the 0-60 or to quarter mile is a very American thing.

    In Europe car enthusiasts like to race their cars. The Top Gear guys certainly do. And that does not mean a drag strip. They are also probably more used to the English or German standard of interior appointments, as opposed to the Detroit standard...

    In those areas, Model S is genuinely lacking. It does not surprise me that the sole Brit in this thread gets it. That said, I do agree with said Brit, that it is a testament to Model S certainly to even compete in that category. The drivetrain truly is world changing.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    960
    Location:
    California
    #18 eye.surgeon, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    Chris Harris is probably the most respected motor journalist in the world among serious car enthusiasts.I thought his opinions were spot on but colored by his European viewpoint.. The MS makes more sense in North America than it does in Europe. We have lower speed limits and more wide-open driving, wider lanes, bigger parking spots, and garages. For Americans, 100-150 MPH performance is pretty irrelevant. I've owned a Porsche 911 and found it annoying for my daily commute, I never got out of 3rd gear and it had 7.

    it was very interesting to see the that Tesla absolutely crush the 911R through 150 MPH-- fo those that don't follow Porsche, the 911R is the absolute darling of the performance car world right now.
     
    • Like x 7
    • Helpful x 1
    • Love x 1
  19. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    8,016
    Location:
    EU
    #19 AnxietyRanger, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    I have absolutely no idea why Chris Harris of all people would have such a motivation. It isn't like he's running an ICE factory.

    Knowing how Top Gear races even big German saloons, that's what they do.

    More than just 0-60 matters in judging a car's performance - at least in Europe it does.

    Incidentally, that's one reason why American cars are often disliked in Europe. It is not just Tesla.
     
  20. conman

    conman Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I thought it was quite sincere from a group that is by their own admission against EVs in general and have avoided them. The point of it was everyone insisted to him that he test the P100D because they focus on performance cars almost exclusively and people recommended he drive the P100D because of its obscene acceleration. His qualms ended up being about finish, or the sparseness of it, or whatever, and ultimately NOT about the way it drives - he said it drove remarkably well and basically annihilated the porsche in the traffic light and real world driving range. In the end he "got it" that it really was a great drive despite it being competition for luxury saloons as well as a porsche 911R at acceleration. What he missed was harping on about the warm up process to get 100% acceleration for ultimate performance was not required on a daily basis and that 95% of the performance was there always, and it STILL annihilates all cars up to the most expensive Bugatti - to top the 2.5 of the Bugatti requires the warm up.

    I did the comparison for myself. I was about to pull the trigger on a 911 turbo and after much angst and comparing them, the P100D won hands down on so many more things and I had to give up on what was my dream car because the Tesla fulfilled my dream even more without my long history of love with porsches.
     
    • Like x 6
    • Helpful x 1

Share This Page