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Top Gear Chris Harris Drives P100D vs Porsche 911R

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by mdevp, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    The average European drives fewer miles, gets fewer tickets, and most their roads have lower speed limits. At least in France, England, Italy, Portugal, and Spain. It's not littered with sports cars doing the Le Mans thing on public roads. LA drivers go faster and I see more 500+ HP track cars in LA. The only place I saw more sports cars than LA was old Paris, but it was during the Paris Air Show. Lots of foreign big spenders present and armed guards. Sheikhs and such.

    In the US, it is not odd around here to have 80 kph city streets in residential zones. 90 for 2 lane farm road. 120 is normal controlled access for much of the country. We had a lot of race tracks, but urban sprawl moves them further and further away.
    There are only 3 road courses within short distance to me, California Speedway, Willow Springs, and Buttonwillow. A couple hours more will get you to 2 tracks in the Las Vegas area and one in AZ.

    The most common form of participant motorsport in the USA is not drag racing, but it does make TV more interesting since idiots call street racing by the name of drag racing. Street racing uses trees, curves, curbs, potholes, pedestrians, animals, bicyclists, spectator cars, parked cars, oncoming traffic, stoplights, police chases, and normally requires alcohol or teenage peer pressure to function correctly. Alcohol for the adults who never grew up so they can act 18 years old. None of that is required for drag racing since it's closed course event with safety equipment and rules, with only 1 way traffic.

    The most common is a form closed course driving is a roadracing time trial that has speeds capped at about 60 mph called Solo2 or AutoX (same, one is sanctioned by the SCCA, the other is informal, but same sport).

    It's everywhere. All you need is a helmet and a car.
     
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  2. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

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    Most respected motor journalist in the world says, "I have no idea how it works". Lol
     
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  3. conman

    conman Active Member

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    By the way I saw TG's review of the roadster and it's actually quite interesting if you listen to the script, you'll see them say that it WILL run out of juice at X miles and then show whatshisname demoing what it's like if he's run out of charge, but they didn't say that it DID run out of juice. Very deceptive.
     
  4. 12Pack

    12Pack ..

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    #24 12Pack, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    Guys, the 911 is just a different type of car. That's why I thought it was a silly comparison. Like my beloved V12V, it's a personal luxury sports car meant for when you want to bang down canyon roads or hit the track, shifting gears and rev matching yourself. Or even just going to the grocery store with the memory of the last canyon drive ringing through your head.

    The Models S is the peak of efficient, family sized motoring, with the special ability to warp across to the next intersection. There's certainly room in my life for one of each.
     
  5. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    I'd never even heard of him. Top Gear is more of an entertainment show, not a gearhead show, or am I missing something?

    A little research shows his claim to fame is saying Lambos suck to drive and understeer tragically. OK... There are two kinds of cars. Cars you make understeer and cars you have not driven. And he got in a fight with Ferrari about press cars, but then got on his knees to resolve it best I can tell. He lives off press cars, so take that for what it's worth. Is Tesla going to give him a Press Car? Or is Porsche more likely?

    BTW - I had no trouble whatsoever hanging the tail out on the Gallardo LP560-4. It's a drift monster. I trailbraked too hard and got it to push, but I can do that in anything, and it was not significant.
     
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  6. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    Of course not but where does he derive his income? Without ICE factories and ICE supplier factories what would his income look like?

    Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying he's doing this on a conscious level. I specifically made that point in my post. Of course he does not see and know that Tesla (and the likes of Tesla) are the future (although he will pay lip service to that), but in my view he subconsciously makes unfair comparisons. I believe that he truly believes everything he is saying and is true to himself. But I also believe he's fighting an internal struggle that he admits to himself that he does not want to confront when he tells us he's "scared" of Tesla. It's the same fight that's gone on many times in the past. He only knows about "gears" and he's too old for silicone valley so his reaction is completely normal. His reaction is exactly the same as the top wooden horse buggy craftsman's magazine (if there was one) would have had when Ford's Model T started to roll off the line. Do you think that old fellow would give the Model T a glowing review? No, he likely said where are you going to find gas for it? There's hay and watering holes everywhere! Sound familiar?

    Self preservation is human nature. It's build into our genetics.
     
  7. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    from what I know of Chris' reviews - honestly this is a very very good review.
    Against a 911R which is very much a "Chris" car, for the P100D not be be laughed off the field is compliment alone.
    imho he absolutely would have approached this review as an open minded sceptic.

    I was fully expecting him to completely trash the handling, but actually he came across very complimentary about it, only commenting about the slight floatiness that in truth is fair comment. Even the brake fade he only referred to as from repeated use from high speed, but fine on the road. As for making people ill, bet he can make passengers ill in the 911R too.

    Re: the interior - while many, including me, like the clean lines of the interior, it remains fair comment that against its competitors the Interior could have more class for the price. This though harks back to the compromises that Tesla had to make to get the car to the market.
    I, for one, am pefectly happy with those compromises.

    It is a heck of a lot easier for Tesla to add some bits of interior trim than it is for everyone else to add a competitive BEV drivetrain along with all the rest of the functionality.

    Quiet though just takes getting used to, it is indeed very different, the acoustic theatre of a well honed multi cylinder ICE still runs in my blood. I find I can easily live without it and mostly the racket ICE vehicles makes grates on my nerves these days. An Aston at full chat will still turn my head nonetheless.
     
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  8. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I found it odd that he didn't talk about how comfortable his 2nd cameraman was in the back seat of the Porsche.
     
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  9. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    I do not agree.

    What are the best features of EV drivetrains?

    Instant power at all speeds regardless of the transmission. Untested. 5.6s in top gear at 50mph to 70mph for passing for the 911R. 2.9s for P85.

    Time to achieve safe operating oil temp for engine. 0s for Tesla. 30s or more for a racing engine.

    dB at 65 mph.

    Average fuel range at 7am each morning.

    Ability to enter 'ZEV Intercity Areas' or 'HOV lanes' or park in 'EV parking'.

    There is more to a Model S than the blast of massive torque at 0 mph a P100DL produces. Sure, it's quicker than a Porsche. But it goes far deeper than that. A Model S 60 is a superior commuter car than >95% of ICE vehicles sold for the typical driver.

    The P100D is not only stupid quick, it has EV DNA to the max. All the neat features of an EV econobox, but with supercar acceleration available on request with no downside. No emissions, no valve adjustments, no turbo rebuilds, no rod bearing failures, no warmup, etc.
     
  10. Zetopan

    Zetopan Member

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    People need to learn to calm down about this. It is obvious that this testing was just the setup for Chris Harris' next irrelevant comparison of a Yugo against a 10 cubic yard dump truck. The fact that they decided to "compare" this current pair of vehicles demonstrates their total cluelessness.
     
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  11. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    On this site, I routinely hear how Tesla and EVs are going to put a nail in the ICE coffin blah blah blah. I'm guessing that Chris has heard the same kind of banter, and compared it to one of his all-time favorite cars.

    The Model S is a devastatingly quick appliance. But Chris doesn't review S class MBs and 7ers. Nearly every car he is driving and reviewing is focused on driving enjoyment. At the moment, EVs are no threat to that segment. They fall apart (limp mode, etc.) before the journalists can even complete a full lap on a typical road course.

    I get that you guys are enthusiastic about the brand, but try to be a little more objective. Even a base 911 has sporting traits that no EV will have for the foreseeable future. It doesn't make the Model S any less amazing as it's driving my arse to work every day and dusting everyone at the stoplight.
     
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  12. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    A turbo 911S just got handled by a toothless Camaro who married his cousin. Would have got handled by 2 mulletmobiles except they curbed the base ZL1 hard early and didn't get as many runs as the Porsche 911 Turbo S. Results at end.



    It was run with nanny's all off and a MANual trans. You can see he left some meat on the table.

    Truth? You do not drive your family car at that level. These are track toys. Both the cheap ones, and the expensive ones. Today's cars are simply too fast in the corners to use their abilities on public roads.

    Hardcore truth? Pike's Peak and Le Mans and F1 are getting EV technology. LaFerrari, 918, McLaren P1 were plated street cars.

    Yes, there will be EV systems is the world's fastest cars from here on out. The Model S is more of a family sedan with a Performance option. No ceramic brakes, massive use of carbon fiber, removal of backseats, ultra stiff suspension, etc.
     
  13. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    but you miss the point of Chris review as an "old school die hard performance oriented petrolhead"

    He just drove it as a car - and made minimal reference to the EV bit which is covered endlessly everywhere.

    The act that he drove it, enjoyed it, didn't trash it for braking/handling/turn in is my take away from the review, and having seen him savage some other so called performance kit, I think he was very balanced in his view.
     
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  14. BLKTSLA

    BLKTSLA Member

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    I don't find this review surprising, it's not that he was trying NOT to like it, I just think he was doing this review just as fan service and he admitted it in the beginning. Clearly he wanted no part of reviewing this car but so many fans asked him why he hadn't so he did it to please them, and thats what we have here a review based on demand not his genuine desire to review this car and it shows in his analysis. Not taking anything away from his analysis its his opinion but its biased based on his desire to want to review it or even like it. I value his opinion on all the cars he WANTS to review and they are great reviews this isnt quite his best work...
     
  15. xveys

    xveys Member

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    I quite liked the review. Indeed he compares apples with oranges, but what an orange to compre the P100D against. Say what you will, but the 911R is a fantastic car, any given day. Just comparing those 2 cars is already a lot of praise coming from a petrol head like Chris Harris. Doens't matter that both cars serve different purposes and take care of different car enthousiants' needs.

    Two things slightly irked me during the review though:
    1) The battery only had 63miles left in the battery during the drag stip, and power output was limited. Even so, he was able to destroy the 911R the first time, and almost keep up with it the second time to 150mph. At max battery, the story might have been different, but it still is a great testament to the P100D output, even at low SoC.
    2) that bird poop on the left rear taillight in the final segment :D
     
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  16. Kanting

    Kanting Member

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    Guess it's impossible for him to understand Infinite Improbability Drive.
     
  17. BLKTSLA

    BLKTSLA Member

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    I noticed that too but just suspect thats what they got when they shot the b-roll footage for the IC after launching and driving so much, no way he's beating that 911R without full power 350+ wh... so chalk that one up to shoddy editing. ;)
     
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  18. Dax279

    Dax279 Member

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    I enjoyed the view as well and noticed that he called the sears being co weed with cheap leather. Am I wrong in that given these were white seats that what he was sitting on was the fake stuff? I guess if this is the case, then it was hard for him to tell it was not real.
     
  19. Pezpunk

    Pezpunk Member

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    oh they'd move the goal posts again. they used to complain about range and acceleration. now they want to pretend the quarter mile doesn't matter and complain about acceleration over 130mph. if Tesla adds a second gear, then they'll just move on to complaining about weight or engine noise or something.
     
  20. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. On track days, or car shows, perhaps. On other given days, it's as useful as a sports car.

    Did you drive your >500hp manual 2 seater to work daily? My wife did for awhile, but eventually even she got tired of the restrictions. 200+ mph and 1.1x g cornering and 60-0mph in 90 feet with tragic visibility and no ground clearance isn't fun on city streets unless you derive enjoyment from people looking at you.
     
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