Top Gear Chris Harris Drives P100D vs Porsche 911R

[xveys]

I disagree. On track days, or car shows, perhaps. On other given days, it's as useful as a sports car.

Did you drive your >500hp manual 2 seater to work daily? My wife did for awhile, but eventually even she got tired of the restrictions. 200+ mph and 1.1x g cornering and 60-0mph in 90 feet with tragic visibility and no ground clearance isn't fun on city streets unless you derive enjoyment from people looking at you.

Precisely my point and I agree fully. It is absolutely not a useful car, nor is it for daily driving. I don't think the manual transmission is for anyone but the absolute hardcore Porsche fans, and this car was designerd specifically for that crowd in mind. I suspect that no 911R owners drive this car to work (if they even work, that is ). I'm saying it's just a bloody great car as far as performance, mechanical engineering and overall cool-ness factor go.
If you have to make an absurd comparison between the P100D and any other car, the iconic and super performant 911R fits great in a strange kind of way of rthe speed and race aspect of it. The drag race is about speed and performance after all. I think he also chose the 911R because he absolutely loves it from a racing and track point of view. Chris Harris didn't talk about the daily drive quality of the 911R afterwards, did he?
I think this review mostly shows that while the P100D has immense power to beat the pack leading 911R in what it does best, it is also a great sedan. Many facets to our 'one-trick pony EV'

 

[brianman]

Broad point...

I think the car review methodology needs to evolve, especially when evaluating a car like the Model S. More specifically, each of the key axes need to be reviewed against "relevant competition".


Elon (and co.) keep touting the 0-60 and (more recently) the 1/4 mile. The 911R is a great car to test against for that.

Tesla keeps touting safety. Great, use Volvo or whoever are considered the "gold standard" of safety (if you exclude Tesla) and compare against those for safety.

It's an EV. Bring out every non-silly competitor to evaluate against on that front for range, cost to refill, time to refill, efficiency, "green reality", etc.

Interior? Show us competitors in its price range, body style, and passenger capacity and compare against that. I keep hearing reviews saying "well, if you compare to a Mercedes __ or BMW __ then..." where said vehicle isn't shown or even pictured. They could say it doesn't beat the Serenity interior and I couldn't see why, because I don't have the movie handy to compare with while reading the review.

Etc.


If they followed this methodology, I'd actually get a useful evaluation of the car on each of the interesting axes. Instead, I "look forward" to a review of how the Tesla semi can beat a Ferrari in the 1/4 mile, but get dinged because "it's so much harder to park the semi."

 

[DIL]

Precisely my point and I agree fully. It is absolutely not a useful car, nor is it for daily driving. I don't think the manual transmission is for anyone but the absolute hardcore Porsche fans, and this car was designerd specifically for that crowd in mind. I suspect that no 911R owners drive this car to work (if they even work, that is ). I'm saying it's just a bloody great car as far as performance, mechanical engineering and overall cool-ness factor go.
If you have to make an absurd comparison between the P100D and any other car, the iconic and super performant 911R fits great in a strange kind of way of rthe speed and race aspect of it. The drag race is about speed and performance after all. I think he also chose the 911R because he absolutely loves it from a racing and track point of view. Chris Harris didn't talk about the daily drive quality of the 911R afterwards, did he?
I think this review mostly shows that while the P100D has immense power to beat the pack leading 911R in what it does best, it is also a great sedan. Many facets to our 'one-trick pony EV'

This and it's also an apt comparo b/c both cars defy physics in different ways. The Porsche with an engine hanging in the worst possible location and the massively heavy MS that can beat it

 

[Seawind300]

The take away I got was the runs in the P100D were laid back , easy to steer, easy to control, walk in the (very quick) park. When he drove the 911R ....... it looked like it was a race car drivers grip.... not a car for the inexperienced, one wrong move and bad things could happen.

So relaxed in the Tesla and so busy and intense in the 911.


Mike

 

[brianman]

Something that struck me when I first watched the video but didn't have time to capture the quote:

... that doesn't necessarily want to go in a straight line of its own accord ... requires some driver input ... 911R ...

This sounds like a broken car to me. Maybe he just needs some new tires and an alignment. Or a better way of saying what he actually meant.

Or was he talking about auto-steer? If so, I'd love to see a review of that feature in the 911R.

 

[Shock-On-T]

I do not agree.

What are the best features of EV drivetrains?

Instant power at all speeds regardless of the transmission. Untested. 5.6s in top gear at 50mph to 70mph for passing for the 911R. 2.9s for P85.

Time to achieve safe operating oil temp for engine. 0s for Tesla. 30s or more for a racing engine.

dB at 65 mph.

Average fuel range at 7am each morning.

Ability to enter 'ZEV Intercity Areas' or 'HOV lanes' or park in 'EV parking'.

There is more to a Model S than the blast of massive torque at 0 mph a P100DL produces. Sure, it's quicker than a Porsche. But it goes far deeper than that. A Model S 60 is a superior commuter car than >95% of ICE vehicles sold for the typical driver.

The P100D is not only stupid quick, it has EV DNA to the max. All the neat features of an EV econobox, but with supercar acceleration available on request with no downside. No emissions, no valve adjustments, no turbo rebuilds, no rod bearing failures, no warmup, etc.

An even better commuter car is an S75D (I declare bias). Half the price, same car inside and out, all the EV benefits, and still has more than enough grunt.

 

[larmor]

With me it's not so much a superiority thing as a lack of understanding why all cars are not the same.

The 911R has worse mileage than full sized pickups and SUVs but with a much smaller tank, and no storage or passenger room.

One Trick Pony. 70 sqft interior, 5 cuft luggage for 2. Constant fuel stops unless you drive like a miser. Traditional Porsche policies and maintenance (no track use, expensive routine maintenance), fast tire wear, tail happy unless you keep nannys on.

I think it would be a hoot to run a 911R around a track, but I would not drive it to work. A Ford Focus would be a better car for that, even if a Focus cost more than a 911R. A 911R is just slightly up the foodchain from a motorcycle because it has a roof.

A Model S is INTENDED to be driven on the street. The 911R is ALLOWED to be driven on the street. Big difference.

This... RS version is a purpose built track car that can drive on the street. Tbf better compare 911 RS to an s class. If Tesla actually made a track purpose two seat car, I'm sure it would blow apart a 911. Remember the target for handling was to be McLaren...

 

[brianman]

If Tesla actually made a track purpose ... car

I really, really look forward to the day when this doesn't map to "if false". Unfortunately, it doesn't look to be within my lifetime.

 

[Peewee]

As a new Tesla owner, I think it's kind of sweet how people react to any criticism. People react like like someone spit on their child in the supermarket.

I think it's a fair video. In no way, shape or form did he use the 911R to trashtalk the Tesla's characteristics. He just used it to dragrace.

For me it was a 1st time to see that the Ludicrous mode needs to warm-up. And cool down. This is something the videos made by Tesla enthusiasts seem to forget to mention. And although he has some remarks on the driving, which although you don't have to agree with him seems fair, he constantly tells us how impressive the car is.

I enjoyed the video and think 99% of the viewers who don't own a Tesla, think as it as a positive review for the P100D.

 

[conman]

For me it was a 1st time to see that the Ludicrous mode needs to warm-up. And cool down. This is something the videos made by Tesla enthusiasts seem to forget to mention.

Except that that's wrong. Ludicrous mode can be used all day every day (as I drive mine.) Ludicrous+ mode is what requires the warm up and temperature controlled. The difference is 0.3s, but even ludicrous mode would have been substantially faster than the 911R; they just had to go all out for demonstration purposes.

 

[thegruf]

What if he didnt bother wit max battery/Ludicrous+ etc

Probably would have owned the 911R just as a jump in, press the go pedal whilst the 911R driver was setting up his launch control.

Arguably even more impressive would have been to see both cars without launch control, and actually I would like to have seen comparison of the cars rolling at 30mph and hoofed up to 70mph - suspect that might have been quite close.

The real translation of all this is that the P100D is a phenomenal machine for overtaking on the highway, at any (legalish)speed ludicrous+ or not and in real life that is plain fun but also allows for perfectly safe overtaking of slower cars when other lesser cars simply would have to wait in line. Better still, whilst not a razor edged track car, it is perfectly capable of managing the twisty stuff, can be pointed at an apex and will hold its line without washing wide and does an excellent job of disguising its 2+ton mass save for a bit of floatiness on some undulations, and the brakes are essentially fade-free in road use - all distilled from Chris' review i think.

Then you have all the EV goodness on top of that.

 

[FutureShock]

From watching the vid, I don't feel that Chris Harris was really 'biased' in any sort of overt way, despite some of the comments here.

It felt rather like he had just been confronted with a new paradigm that he'd never experienced before, and he recognized instantly that there were some outstanding things about it, but, he was having a hard time wrapping his head around it too.

I think this is pretty normal, and a very 'honest' reaction to such a situation.

And overall, he had many nice things to say about the car. And the criticisms he leveled were probably accurate too... the Model S is not a 'perfect' car, no matter what Consumer Reports rates it. Harris believes the interior could be more expensive-feeling, the steering feel could be a bit better, the brakes even higher-end, the suspension can get a bit 'porpoise-y', etc. etc.

He is not the first person to mention those things, and remember, the lofty price point the P100D occupies is indeed 'no compromise'. If you can't nitpick there, where can you?

So, I'd say, lay off the guy. I think he got whacked over the head with the future, and is still kinda processing it. In a good way, hopefully.

.

 

[12Pack]

Its interesting reading the thread to see how strongly people feel about the superiority of the Model S.

Old joke: there are 10 types of people - those that get binary, and those who don't.

Its also clear there are two types of folks here - those who get "analog" driver's cars and those who don't. The latter are banging away about how much quieter and more spacious the Model S is etc.

I love my daily driver Model S - and I love my weekend / track driver as well.

 

[u00mem9]

Its interesting reading the thread to see how strongly people feel about the superiority of the Model S.

Old joke: there are 10 types of people - those that get binary, and those who don't.

Its also clear there are two types of folks here - those who get "analog" driver's cars and those who don't. The latter are banging away about how much quieter and more spacious the Model S is etc.

I love my daily driver Model S - and I love my weekend / track driver as well.

This. To anyone that is honestly unable to understand why a P100D isn't delivering the character that the reviewer is looking for: Put down the crazy conspiracy theories that he is subconsciously bias to the evil ICE empire and look inward. You might just discover another dimension of the automotive landscape that you OBVIOUSLY have been unaware exists. Personal growth opportunity.

Sheesh.

 

[DIL]

You guys are restoring my faith. There are gearheads among us...

As a new Tesla owner, I think it's kind of sweet how people react to any criticism. People react like like someone spit on their child in the supermarket.

I think it's a fair video. In no way, shape or form did he use the 911R to trashtalk the Tesla's characteristics. He just used it to dragrace.

For me it was a 1st time to see that the Ludicrous mode needs to warm-up. And cool down. This is something the videos made by Tesla enthusiasts seem to forget to mention. And although he has some remarks on the driving, which although you don't have to agree with him seems fair, he constantly tells us how impressive the car is.

I enjoyed the video and think 99% of the viewers who don't own a Tesla, think as it as a positive review for the P100D.

From watching the vid, I don't feel that Chris Harris was really 'biased' in any sort of overt way, despite some of the comments here.

It felt rather like he had just been confronted with a new paradigm that he'd never experienced before, and he recognized instantly that there were some outstanding things about it, but, he was having a hard time wrapping his head around it too.

I think this is pretty normal, and a very 'honest' reaction to such a situation.

And overall, he had many nice things to say about the car. And the criticisms he leveled were probably accurate too... the Model S is not a 'perfect' car, no matter what Consumer Reports rates it. Harris believes the interior could be more expensive-feeling, the steering feel could be a bit better, the brakes even higher-end, the suspension can get a bit 'porpoise-y', etc. etc.

He is not the first person to mention those things, and remember, the lofty price point the P100D occupies is indeed 'no compromise'. If you can't nitpick there, where can you?

So, I'd say, lay off the guy. I think he got whacked over the head with the future, and is still kinda processing it. In a good way, hopefully.

.

Its interesting reading the thread to see how strongly people feel about the superiority of the Model S.

Old joke: there are 10 types of people - those that get binary, and those who don't.

Its also clear there are two types of folks here - those who get "analog" driver's cars and those who don't. The latter are banging away about how much quieter and more spacious the Model S is etc.

I love my daily driver Model S - and I love my weekend / track driver as well.

This. To anyone that is honestly unable to understand why a P100D isn't delivering the character that the reviewer is looking for: Put down the crazy conspiracy theories that he is subconsciously bias to the evil ICE empire and look inward. You might just discover another dimension of the automotive landscape that you OBVIOUSLY have been unaware exists. Personal growth opportunity.

Sheesh.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Gearheads don't exist on TMC. Fake News!

 

[Peewee]

I would trade in my Tesla P100D for a 911R any day

 

[e-FTW]

I just saw Chris' video and read this thread. Am a long-time fan of Chris, and I think he was fair for where he's coming from.
And yes, there are gear-heads here, see my avatar. It ain't from my Tesla...

 

[Sharpgt]

I thought it was extremely positive especially considering the source. It's not easy to impress a race car driver that has driven just about every fast car on the planet!

 

[aus]

It's pretty OBVIOUS, most of the people who posted negative remarks DIDN'T WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO.
He raced a 911R, but I didn't hear ANY comparison between the two car ANYWHERE in the videos.
So for all the people who asked, "did he really compare a MS against a 911R" the answer is NO he didn't.

I also love the people here who think they drive better than Chris Harris. Lets see your driving credentials???

It is nice to see there are some gear heads trickling in here among all the people who have completely drunk the Musk cool-aid. Chris appeared to be VERY impressed with the car overall at the end of the video. Don't know why so many are so butt hurt over him pointing out some obvious faults... like the interior materials.
I know it's hard to believe for many of you, the there is no "perfect car" and an automotive journalist is suppose to point out these faults.

PS. For the gearheads here, the next vid is of the Ford GT. GREAT review of an amazing car.
.