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Top Gear compares P85D with i8 on a race track...

The ‘85’ signifies the flagship’s 85kWh battery output

That's not how things works. That's not how any of this works.

-----
On an other note, do these track hybrids (BMW i8, Spyder and others) ever get problems with overheating (of the electric part of the drivedrain) or an empty battery mid lap (I know the ICE can recharge the battery, but does it get enough time to do so) ?
I've never seen anybody complain, so I guess the addition of an ICE helps alleviate these concerns.
It's not mentioned in this article, but then they didn't talk about the P85D overheating either.
 
That's not how things works. That's not how any of this works.

-----
On an other note, do these track hybrids (BMW i8, Spyder and others) ever get problems with overheating (of the electric part of the drivedrain) or an empty battery mid lap (I know the ICE can recharge the battery, but does it get enough time to do so) ?
I've never seen anybody complain, so I guess the addition of an ICE helps alleviate these concerns.
It's not mentioned in this article, but then they didn't talk about the P85D overheating either.

My understanding is that the issue with the i8 is not limited power due to overheating electric powertrain, but limited power due to emptying the battery after only a short period of "full performance" driving.

And with a depleted battery the i8 is not a fast car by anyone's definition.
 

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
Moderator
May 17, 2009
18,280
162
Nevada
At the end of the day the Model S was the second slowest car on the track. Even cars like the VW Golf Station Wagon R achieved a faster track time.

At the end of the day all day track performance is not what the Model S is about. Maybe someday there will be a track version of the car but the current model is for burst of acceleration more than sustained 120+mph performance. Something very few people do anyway. They should improve this and likely will at some point.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
9,873
8,044
Merced, CA
At the end of the day all day track performance is not what the Model S is about. Maybe someday there will be a track version of the car but the current model is for burst of acceleration more than sustained 120+mph performance. Something very few people do anyway. They should improve this and likely will at some point.

Agreed. Why anyone would take an MS and even try to run it for a long time on a track is beyond me. Drag strip? Sure, but even then they hopefully wait a good long time between runs. I wouldn't want to put my battery through that.
 

David99

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Jan 31, 2014
5,031
7,987
Nomad (mostly US)
Agreed. Why anyone would take an MS and even try to run it for a long time on a track is beyond me. Drag strip? Sure, but even then they hopefully wait a good long time between runs. I wouldn't want to put my battery through that.

The Model S is really only a performance car when accelerating from 0 maybe 80 on a straight line, and fails at every other aspect of 'performance'. When not fully charged it drops, when cornering it falls behind many much cheaper cars, when trying to hold high speeds for a while it runs out of breath... People here try to point how little all of this matters in the real world. But seriously, how much does 0-60 in 2.8 vs 3.1 sec matter? It's just bragging rights. There is no safe situation in normal traffic where you need it or have any advantage.
 

Skotty

2014 S P85 | 2020 3 P19"
Jun 27, 2013
2,584
2,031
Kansas City, MO
If you are concerned about track performance, you need to wait for the next Roadster. Track Performance is not the mission of the Model S.

Though I admit, I'm curious to investigate why track performance wouldn't be a little better than what you all are saying. Given that it has fast acceleration, good cornering grip, and low center of gravity. Must be reduced output due to thermal limitations or something. And of course, the weight doesn't help. The heavier it is, the more energy it takes to move it around the curves.

When the next Roadster finally comes around, I think you will see a track monster. Look out when that happens. :)
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
13,089
9,414
In some ways, the P85D may be a worse track car than a P85+. It weighs 300 lbs more, the suspension supposedly is softer, and Tesla also switched away from staggered wheels (which does result in noticeably lower lateral gs) . The higher peak power may not necessarily make up for that depending on the track.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
9,873
8,044
Merced, CA
The Model S is really only a performance car when accelerating from 0 maybe 80 on a straight line, and fails at every other aspect of 'performance'. When not fully charged it drops, when cornering it falls behind many much cheaper cars, when trying to hold high speeds for a while it runs out of breath... People here try to point how little all of this matters in the real world. But seriously, how much does 0-60 in 2.8 vs 3.1 sec matter? It's just bragging rights. There is no safe situation in normal traffic where you need it or have any advantage.

Wow. There's a lot there but it seems unqualified. Which 5 or 7 passenger full sized sedans is the P85+ or P85D slower when cornering?

Yes, power drops off some:

65% SOC 460 rear wheel hp:

p85d65P.jpg


90% SOC 498 rear wheel hp:

90SOC0to60.jpg


But it's not drastic. In fact, ICE cars have conditions under which power drops off too like a hot day or going up in altitude. A 400 hp ICE in denver only makes 330 hp. It losses 70 just to elevation.
 

thegruf

Active Member
Mar 24, 2015
2,324
2,123
indeterminate
My understanding is that the issue with the i8 is not limited power due to overheating electric powertrain, but limited power due to emptying the battery after only a short period of "full performance" driving.

And with a depleted battery the i8 is not a fast car by anyone's definition.

The problems with the i8 are far more serious than this.

The electric bit doesn't last that long
Then the ICE bit isnt that powerful
But the biggest deal is that the ICE cant charge the battery and provide useful power at the same time.

So once the battery if flat you are left with an undersized engine hauling a battery around but unable to charge it.
And it has synthesized sound ffs.

Actually in many real world scenarios this car is a major fail.
A friend of mine bought one, kept it for about 3 months, averaged about 30mpg and sold it, describing it as the worst decision he had ever made in his life.
(not entirely true as he sold it for more than he paid for it!!!)
 

thegruf

Active Member
Mar 24, 2015
2,324
2,123
indeterminate
It was still good enough to trounce the P85D.

Please point me to where Tesla claim the P85D is a track car?

Guess what there isn't any claim anywhere.

You might as well put the P85D up against a Jeep or Land Rover on an offroad course and say the P85D is "trounced" for the relevance of your comment.

On the street things are very different to a few laps around a track.
 

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