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Toronto - Montreal

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Did the Toronto - Montreal - Toronto route Sunday and yesterday.

I was really stressing about skipping Belleville and stopping at Kingston and was compulsively checking the SC status at Kingston. It was pretty steady 3 of 6 full for all of Sunday morning on the way to Kingston but I took a chance and skipped Belleville and committed to Kingston (Sunday at noon in an outlet mall parking lot with poor snow removal - who knows what can happen). 3 of the stalls were open but I could not get over 100 kW on the first stall so I moved to another open stall and went right up to about 135 kW (apx - I have all of the exact TeslaFi data if anyone is interested in full trip details).

Surprisingly my next stop at Cornwall also only had 2 open stalls and 2 of the cars (with an open stall between them) were so far over the line that I actually could not squeeze my car between them. (I tried, but no one was moving). I had to tuck into the stall at the end next to the shed which was almost snow blocked, but I got in and surprisingly managed very high charging speeds (about 145 kW).

All of which to say, on the way back to Toronto, I left Montreal with a little less than I would have liked, and while initial estimates had me reaching Kingston with about 20%, weather was not too cold and my speed was not excessive, (it may have been a little windy) but the estimate dropped like a stone and moved to 8 - 9 % getting to as low as 7% with over an hour of travel time remaining. I dropped my speed to 110 km/hr and even turned off the heat and it moved up a percent or so -

I almost bailed at Cornwall but decided to take a chance - (Brockville would have been perfect) and with about 55 minutes left to Kingston I slowly increased my speed and arrived at Kingston with 7%. (Kingston was empty - but this was Monday at about 10 am).

Not clear to me why the estimate was off so much and the car was using so much "power" but from Kingston (I did a short charge instead of hanging around, intending to splash and dash at Port Hope) to Port Hope and from Port Hope to downtown I was driving "with traffic" and the estimate was very very close to final arrival.


I can actually feel the stress in my upcoming trip just reading this. Exacerbated by kids and a wife in the car. Would you do the same stops again or change it up?
 
Ha! Interesting question. I had my elder mother in the car on the way back to Montreal and I was solo on the way back home to Toronto and one thought I had in my mind on the way home while the car was showing 13% - 11% - 9% - 7 % with still lots of travel time before hitting Kingston, was “thank goodness my wife is not in the car!” (With all due respect to my wife - my boys would have been excited about it).

Would I have done anything different? It depends on whether you have good charging available when you reach Montreal and what state of charge you want to arrive at, and then I try and work backwards.

If I was going on a Sunday and would be planning to arrive in Kingston around noon I would watch the supercharger availability at Kingston very very closely, and I might decide to stop at Belleville. The problem with that strategy though, is that in the winter, depending on road conditions and lots of other factors, Belleville to Cornwall can be a stretch and you will need to charge pretty high in Belleville which also takes longer. If congestion at Kingston wasn’t a problem, then leaving home FULL, and going straight to Kingston works very well because you don’t need that high a charge to then stop at Cornwall or charge a little more and stop at Pt Claire before you hit Montreal. (Of course, Cornwall being a solid 7 or 8 minutes off the highway has its own issues). So no, I would probably do that the same and just go straight to Kingston unless availability was showing zero available as I was getting near Belleville (which is still about 45 minutes from Kingston).

On the way from Montreal back to Toronto, if I had my wife in the car, I would definitely have bailed out at Cornwall for a top up when I saw Kingston showing estimated 7% at arrival. (But in hindsight that would have been the wrong decision because I would have arrived at Cornwall “too early” (high state of charge) and would have lost time going on and off the highway. I figured as long as I could maintain at least 110 km/hr (although for a bit it seemed touch and go) I would be better off pressing on. (If I had to turn off the heat - it would be awhile before I would hear the end of that ;)

I have had my car since October 2018 and I have done lots of road trips. I am always happy to take it on a trip and NoA (or even just enhanced AP) makes all the difference for me in driving comfort - not being tired etc. I also don’t mind the stopping every couple of hours for a short charge - but I am definitely more attuned to what the car is doing, where I need to stop, planning my next stop etc than in our ICE SUV.
 
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Ha! Interesting question. I had my elder mother in the car on the way back to Montreal and I was solo on the way back home to Toronto and one thought I had in my mind on the way home while the car was showing 13% - 11% - 9% - 7 % with still lots of travel time before hitting Kingston, was “thank goodness my wife is not in the car!” (With all due respect to my wife - my boys would have been excited about it).

Would I have done anything different? It depends on whether you have good charging available when you reach Montreal and what state of charge you want to arrive at, and then I try and work backwards.

If I was going on a Sunday and would be planning to arrive in Kingston around noon I would watch the supercharger availability at Kingston very very closely, and I might decide to stop at Belleville. The problem with that strategy though, is that in the winter, depending on road conditions and lots of other factors, Belleville to Cornwall can be a stretch and you will need to charge pretty high in Belleville which also takes longer. If congestion at Kingston wasn’t a problem, then leaving home FULL, and going straight to Kingston works very well because you don’t need that high a charge to then stop at Cornwall or charge a little more and stop at Pt Claire before you hit Montreal. (Of course, Cornwall being a solid 7 or 8 minutes off the highway has its own issues). So no, I would probably do that the same and just go straight to Kingston unless availability was showing zero available as I was getting near Belleville (which is still about 45 minutes from Kingston).

On the way from Montreal back to Toronto, if I had my wife in the car, I would definitely have bailed out at Cornwall for a top up when I saw Kingston showing estimated 7% at arrival. (But in hindsight that would have been the wrong decision because I would have arrived at Cornwall “too early” (high state of charge) and would have lost time going on and off the highway. I figured as long as I could maintain at least 110 km/hr (although for a bit it seemed touch and go) I would be better off pressing on. (If I had to turn off the heat - it would be awhile before I would hear the end of that ;)

I have had my car since October 2018 and I have done lots of road trips. I am always happy to take it on a trip and NoA (or even just enhanced AP) makes all the difference for me in driving comfort - not being tired etc. I also don’t mind the stopping every couple of hours for a short charge - but I am definitely more attuned to what the car is doing, where I need to stop, planning my next stop etc than in our ICE SUV.


This is great and our minds are thinking alike. My boys would be ‘push it push it’. My Daughter would be stressed out. My wife and I would probably get into an argument as she would be happy to take our monster extended Escalade that gets 1000km per tank and not worry about it. She clearly doesn't understand (hence the fight). I used to love driving that tank so much for road trips but currently in a never ending honeymoon period with the Tesla.

I have been doing my calculations based on 60-65% efficiency based on current weather and how warm my battery is when I leave. I wonder if I can put my car into Insane+ mode when plugged in at home to heat the battery on shore power? Will have to try this later today.
 
This is great and our minds are thinking alike. My boys would be ‘push it push it’. My Daughter would be stressed out. My wife and I would probably get into an argument as she would be happy to take our monster extended Escalade that gets 1000km per tank and not worry about it. She clearly doesn't understand (hence the fight). I used to love driving that tank so much for road trips but currently in a never ending honeymoon period with the Tesla.

I have been doing my calculations based on 60-65% efficiency based on current weather and how warm my battery is when I leave. I wonder if I can put my car into Insane+ mode when plugged in at home to heat the battery on shore power? Will have to try this later today.
The honeymoon never ends with a Tesla! :)

I wish I had a button that has the same functionality just in terms of heating the battery as your Insane+ button! I hate not having full regen ever since the temps dropped below 10 C in the GTA.
 
Exactly the same. My wife goes along with it, and definitely agrees with the "no gas / environmental aspect" but does not yet have her head around (and in fairness, most people don't) the concept of "charging less but more often" and every time we stop (and we have done Montreal, Tremblant, NY, Pennsylvania) and I announce "time to go" she asks "why don't you just fill it up so we don't have to stop again".

I also enjoy all the planning that goes into it (both in advance and during).

As I tell people, it definitely takes longer than an ICE road trip (I don't know about you, but even when I am on a long road trip, I typically do not stop for 45 minutes for lunch, I stop, grab a snack, go to the bathroom and we are back in the car in 10 or 15 minutes with gas), it just does, but most of the times, that's ok.

The few times it isn't (when I need to be in the middle of nowhere in the US for camp visiting day by 11 AM Sunday morning and the extra 60 - 70 minutes of travel time makes all the difference), I will take the other car (which is quieter, cooled seats, heated steering wheel and generally more comfortable than the 3) but I still prefer to take the Tesla.

What car do you have? In a LR AWD with 100%, even with a full car, you should have no problem at all (even in the winter) getting to Kingston.

(Just noticed from your sig - P85D?)
 
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Exactly the same. My wife goes along with it, and definitely agrees with the "no gas / environmental aspect" but does not yet have her head around (and in fairness, most people don't) the concept of "charging less but more often" and every time we stop (and we have done Montreal, Tremblant, NY, Pennsylvania) and I announce "time to go" she asks "why don't you just fill it up so we don't have to stop again".

I also enjoy all the planning that goes into it (both in advance and during).

As I tell people, it definitely takes longer than an ICE road trip (I don't know about you, but even when I am on a long road trip, I typically do not stop for 45 minutes for lunch, I stop, grab a snack, go to the bathroom and we are back in the car in 10 or 15 minutes with gas), it just does, but most of the times, that's ok.

The few times it isn't (when I need to be in the middle of nowhere in the US for camp visiting day by 11 AM Sunday morning and the extra 60 - 70 minutes of travel time makes all the difference), I will take the other car (which is quieter, cooled seats, heated steering wheel and generally more comfortable than the 3) but I still prefer to take the Tesla.

What car do you have? In a LR AWD with 100%, even with a full car, you should have no problem at all (even in the winter) getting to Kingston.

(Just noticed from your sig - P85D?)

Yep. P85D with 35k and 4% battery degradation (based on my poor math skills and ODB dongle data).
I haven’t been on many long trips so the whole ‘not topping it off’ is still a bit unsettling for me as range anxiety is still somewhat new and this is my first winter with dismal efficiency stats.
 
Yep. P85D with 35k and 4% battery degradation (based on my poor math skills and ODB dongle data).
I haven’t been on many long trips so the whole ‘not topping it off’ is still a bit unsettling for me as range anxiety is still somewhat new and this is my first winter with dismal efficiency stats.
You'll get used to it quickly. The point of not topping it off is to save time while it is charging at a slower rate when the battery has more charge in it and instead use that time driving to the next supercharger station to deplete the battery more so that it charges faster when the battery is at a lower state of charge. Its a much more efficient approach.
 
You'll get used to it quickly. The point of not topping it off is to save time while it is charging at a slower rate when the battery has more charge in it and instead use that time driving to the next supercharger station to deplete the battery more so that it charges faster when the battery is at a lower state of charge. Its a much more efficient approach.
I tend to be on the conservative side, especially in the winter, and I also tend to drive on the faster side, so I typically don't leave a supercharger without the Nav showing me arriving at my next charging stop with less than apx 22%. (more or less)
 
I tend to be on the conservative side, especially in the winter, and I also tend to drive on the faster side, so I typically don't leave a supercharger without the Nav showing me arriving at my next charging stop with less than apx 22%. (more or less)
Good strategy especially during winter. I use a 15% number in the summer. Haven't gone on a trip this winter yet, but 20% approximately would be my choice as well. Of course you would use this guideline if the next stop is that much further that you need to charge to 80%, otherwise I would have more percentage left at the destination just to save time charging slower at a higher state of charge.
 
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Arrived at Kingston with 7% charged for 17 minutes and left with 62%. (I could have stayed another apx 15 - 20 minutes and possibly had enough to skip Port Hope but didn't want to wait for charging to slow too much, and thought I would get coffee anyways at Port Hope. Kingston has lots of clothing stores, but no coffee right near the SC)

Arrived at Port Hope with 14% and charged for 12 minutes - left at 52%.

Arrived downtown Toronto with 20%.
 
While the charging speed does taper pretty radically after a certain percentage, if Cornwall is the next stop, you need to take into account all of the time required to get off the road, get to Cornwall SC and then get back on the highway. In that case, spending some extra time in Kingston and thereby skipping Cornwall may be worth it.

Going the other way (back to Toronto), I thought I would try less time in Kingston and a short stop in Port Hope. Whether I actually saved any time, very hard to know, but it was reasonably quick over all so I was happy with the way it worked out. (Also, psychologically, I felt better being on the move - sort of like using Waze to take a bunch of side streets to save 3 minutes compared to sitting on a main street with some traffic.)
 
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