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Toronto people. Do you regret having a single charger or is it sufficient?

Discussion in 'Canada' started by hemants, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. hemants

    hemants Member

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    Also, for those with a single charger, did you install a 240V or a wall charger?

    Cheers
     
  2. mibaro2

    mibaro2 Member

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    Be interesting to see the answers to this.
    I have dual chargers, so I can't answer your question. (I believe dual chargers only make a difference when supercharging).
    For what it's worth, I have a 240v plug for charging at home since I am usually there for 5hrs in a 24hr period.
     
  3. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Dual chargers allow faster AC charging. With the Sun Country Highway chargers and limited Superchargers in Canada dual chargers absolutely make sense. Plus, from an altruistic perspective the faster you can charge your car the faster you free up the charger for someone else.
     
  4. Jgdixon

    Jgdixon Member

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    I have dual chargers and both a nema 14-50 and a HPWC at home. The dual chargers are needed for the HPWC or anything above 50 amps I think. The supercharger bypasses the on board chargers I believe.
     
  5. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Correct. A single charger can handle 40A, 240 VAC and dual chargers handle 80A, 240VAC.

    The supercharger completely bypasses the internal charger(s), and so whether you have one or two has no impact on supercharging speed.

    The second charger is low cost, so I don't know why somebody wouldn't include it. On resale, I can see a lot of people not considering the car because of the absence of the second charger. If I would buying used, I would not consider a single charger car.
     
  6. PoweredByRain

    PoweredByRain Member

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    Looking at the flip side, however, who would want to do AC charging other than overnight once the Supercharger network is more extensive? (And 40A is enough for overnight). At that point the extra charger could just be extra weight that is never used.

    Even today, the reality is that the vast majority of public AC chargers are 30 A. Dual chargers aren't going to help you there.

    In other words: there is no simple answer to this one. If you need to be able to charge the car quickly at home, then absolutely get the second charger in the car. If you live somewhere where Superchargers are available, then why spend the money on a capacity you won't use? If I lived in the Toronto area and had a reasonable excuse to drop by the DVP&Lawrence once a week, I'd use the Supercharger there and drive on Tesla's dime. :) But then, I am frugal/cheap.
     
  7. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I'm not from Toronto, and have dual chargers, but have an opinion anyway. :smile:

    You don't need dual chargers for overnight charging at home. If you have 240V 40A it is more than enough for daily use, 100% of the time.

    Where you want dual chargers is when you're on the road and have access to higher power stations (mostly the Sun Country network). If Superchargers are available then it doesn't matter. But if you're ever waiting for your car to charge on AC then you really really want to have dual. Trust me.
     
  8. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    One of the things that I think I am going to like in owning an EV is never having to visit a gas station. So why would I want to go to a Supercharger except when it is necessary? DVP&Lawrence is even between my office and home, but I wouldn't take that route on purpose and I wouldn't want to take the detour and go there and wait 30 mins to get charged. I am cheap too but my time does have value!
     
  9. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    It looks like the Montreal - Windsor corridor will be full of SCs shortly. But once you get off that corridor, Canada is pretty much SC wasteland and will likely be for a while yet. But there are a fair number of 70 Amp Sun Country chargers.
     
  10. KenN

    KenN Member

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    I just want to remind everyone that BC is (still) part of Canada!!

    :tongue:
     
  11. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    So far.... Eventually you'll all get sick of supporting the bankrupt Ontario government with your transfer payments, and get the good sense to separate! :crying:
     
  12. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    Alberta may be joining us in the land of the debtors with WTI at $55.40.
     
  13. m1ker

    m1ker Member

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    We haven't received our car yet, but I went with dual chargers. I do a fair amount of road trips, and since we don't have a supercharger in Calgary yet, I wil be coming home from road trips with a low charge. Dual chargers at home will put 96KM back in the car in an hour, so we can still use it shortly after I get home.

    The second charger can be added after the fact, it just costs a little more. I opted for duals purely out of an interested in lowering my time at public chargers. I will need them from time to time, and figure this will save me time.
     
  14. PoweredByRain

    PoweredByRain Member

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    #14 PoweredByRain, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
    True, but again: do you want to do a road trip with 70A charging? It's faster than 40A, but it's still GLACIAL compared to a Supercharger. If it's at 208V, that's typically 200V under load, so 200*70 = 14 kW. Still 3 hours to do what a Supercharger can do in 25 minutes. Two hours driving, 25 minute stop becomes two hours driving, three hour stop. Repeat.

    That sucks, if you ask me. It's unlikely that there's three or more hours of really interesting things to do within walking distance of every 70A charger.

    To me, the Model S is not a viable long-distance trip car unless you're on the Supercharger network or you're really willing to take your time, and have a lot of patience. And if the car is not used for long-distance travel, there's really no need for dual chargers as 40A is enough for overnight.

    You really have to look at how you plan to use the car, and where, before deciding whether it's worth it to you to get the option. If the extra cost is not a big deal, and you like to have the best spec, then just go for it. Otherwise, I'd say it's a waste.
     
  15. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Of course a SC is best. I'm from Sudbury and only decided to buy the car once a SC was announced for Barrie. I agree that 70A charging is impractical for any regular distance travel. But I can see an occasion arising where there was no SC available. I'd rather sit and wait for 3 hours than 6. Do what you want of course. For the negligible cost, I think that the second charger is a little bit of insurance.
     
  16. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    +1...it will be a while before Supercharging is covering all major routes in Canada (think Trans-Canada heading West from Ontario)...until then, or, if your schedule demands that you need to recoup charge quickly, the second charger is the better way to go imo...

     
  17. rapoport3a

    rapoport3a Member

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    The duals have it, imo. Three days ago I went to the Grimsby ON art gallery for an opening and parked at the Jaff Sun Country charger in downtown Grimsby, at 80A. After an hour and five minutes, my specified charge was complete. Taking twice that time, if I'd had only one charger, wasn't possible.

    All that notwithstanding, if you're never going to encounter more than 40A at 240V or slightly less, in theory you don't need the second charger. Just make sure after arriving anywhere with the potential for more than 40A that you don't need more charging time than you have…something I was unwilling to bet on when we bought our car (and installed an HPWC).
     
  18. KenN

    KenN Member

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    I think you're limiting your thinking too much. There are limitless road trips which could be supported by supercharging, but the distance to destination needs a top-up somewhere.

    From experience, driving from my home in North Vancouver to Merritt, BC. Range charge overnight and thus leave with 100% charge. That isn't enough to make it to Merritt - 280 km through the mountains. But, with a stop in Hope (this summer, before the SC went live), I could stop for a 1-hour dinner at the sun country SC-90 (69 amps of electrony goodness). Same thing on the way back. Without the dual charger in the car, that stop would be almost twice as long.

    Now that the Hope SC is live, the same logic applies if driving to Kelowna. One can get topped up in Hope in 20-30 minutes, but it takes anything from 290-390 km rated range (weather/wind dependent) to get over two summits to Kelowna. A stop at either the SC90 or the SC70 in Merritt for an hour or so would add the range needed to make the final push to Kelowna without worrying. Again, you'd almost double the wait in Merritt with the single charger.

    Charging isn't always about going to full capacity, but rather about making sure you've got enough to get to destination. Regardless of how well the SC network rolls out, there will always be destinations just beyond their reach.
     
  19. troutymontreal

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    Dual Charger is a waste of money. Tesla will have the Chademo chargers available in January which allow you to use the non Tesla charging network with direct DC charging at around 50KW.
    THis along with the ever increasing SC network makes the dual charger option a waste of money in my opinion. We already have 2 SC stations between Mtl and Toronto. The Chademo adapter is going to go for around 450$ and will let you charge at 50 KW which is better than the dual charger with 240 Volts.
     
  20. Jgdixon

    Jgdixon Member

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    I think you are missing the point. If you have a need for faster charging at home you need an HPWC and dual chargers. I got the HPWC for the rare occasion I come home with very little charge and then have to go back out in a short period of time. It's all about the safety factor.
     

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