Torque and Horsepower upgrade kits on M3P?

[ysaliens]

I mean I have a brand new performance 3....and years ago pretty much nothing came close and that was one of the reasons I wanted one.

Now I finally could afford it....lots of cars come close, some are faster.
It's still better than anything. But the gap has shrunk considerably.

The fact it accelerates the same going up or down hills says there's something there. The Y is also a bit faster. Significant? 20hp is 20hp.
They updated the battery a bit for 2021 but aren't allowing more power out....maybe it's yet another software update coming? Maybe the motors are maxed out? Shame if the latter...

Tesla has not updated the 3 performance-wise while other cars have gotten faster every year without exception. The difference between a M3P and most Audi/BMW/Porsche used to be SECONDS. Now it's half a second for many...

 

[Phlier]

They updated the battery a bit for 2021 but aren't allowing more power out.

Don't get me wrong, man, I'm on your side here; I'd LOVE to see Tesla uncork the Model 3 Performance!

But just to touch a bit on the statement quoted... Just because a battery pack is a bit larger doesn't necessarily mean that you can drain that battery at the same (or greater) rate. A battery's "C" rating (the rate it can discharge energy) isn't a constant, it changes according to the chemistry and design of the battery.

If the newer battery has a lower C rating, then it doesn't give any room for greater acceleration, as one of the limiting factors for acceleration is the rate at which you can pull energy out of the battery.

There's so many other limiting factors that at this point it's pretty much a guessing game as to the bottleneck for the Model 3 Performance. It could be the rate at which the battery can deliver energy, it could be the size of the wires carrying that current, it could be the motors, the inverters.... heck, it could even be the strength of the drive train itself that is the limiting factor.

Now that Tesla has completed their S and X refresh, hopefully they'll spend some resources on updating the 3 and Y.

Fingers crossed!

 

[Knightshade]

Now I finally could afford it....lots of cars come close, some are faster.

Which ones are faster without costing 50% more (or higher)?

Again apart from the C8 (and good luck getting one cheaper) I can't think of anything.

It's still better than anything. But the gap has shrunk considerably.

Can you give some examples? Second time asking.

The Y is also a bit faster.

No, the Y is actually slower.

They updated the battery a bit for 2021 but aren't allowing more power out....

There's no indication there's more to deliver.

Capacity isn't the same thing as can deliver more power at once, as Philer explained in some detail.

Tesla has not updated the 3 performance-wise while other cars have gotten faster every year without exception. The difference between a M3P and most Audi/BMW/Porsche used to be SECONDS. Now it's half a second for many...

BMW M3 Squares Off Against The Tesla Model 3 Performance In A Drag Race | Carscoops

Is an electric vehicle the new performance king?

www.carscoops.com

[2018 BMW M3 0 to 60 times]
The M3 Competition, on the other hand, has a 3.0-liter M TwinPower Turbo six-cylinder engine that develops 444 hp (331 hp / 450 hp). It allows the sedan to run from 0-60 mph (0-96 km/h) in 3.8 seconds[/QUOTE]

it goes on to mention the M3 CS, which drops it to 3.7, but starts at nearly $100,000.

So 3 years later how's it going BMW?

First drive review: The 2021 BMW M3 Competition goes into reverse puberty

It’s a teenage dream, with all the screens and touch controls, but the 2021 BMW M3 hasn’t lost its grip on reality. Or adulthood.

www.motorauthority.com

BMW quotes a 0-60 mph time of 4.1 seconds for the base car and a top speed limited to 155 mph; it’s set at 180 mph with the available M Driver's Package. The M3 Competition shaves off 0.3 second to catapult to 60 mph in 3.8 seconds

So... bout the same. And still costing more BTW-

Bear in mind, the 2021 M3 base model costs $69,900, and with the competition package costs $72,800. Both of these are BASE prices with any decent optioning they go up quite a bit.



Over at Audi I guess the S4 would be the nearest comparo car... so let's see their big improvement!

Faster If Not Fiercer: 354-HP 2018 Audi S4 Tested!

A speedier Audi sedan caught in a sibling rivalry.

www.caranddriver.com

our S4 test car returned the same 4.3-second zero-to-60-mph sprint as the S5

2024 Audi S4 Review, Pricing, and Specs

The S4’s classy cabin and performance-oriented powertrain are wrapped in a handsome but subtle design, making the S4 a comfortable and capable sleeper.

www.caranddriver.com

60 mph: 4.2 sec

WHOA! SUCH IMPROVEMENT! MUCH WOW!





These "competitors" are still universally slower than the non performance LR AWD with the AB upgrade

Lemme know when they reliably beat THAT at a remotely comparable price and I'll listen to how they're "catching up" to the P.

 

[ysaliens]

The 2022 BMW M3 X-drive actually does a 3.0 0-60 -

The 2022 Audi RS3 (yes the RS line is more of a competitor than the regular S) is in the mid-high 3s
Mercedes' AMG coupe is now in the 3s as well.

All of these can be modified to go faster still.

The M3P does 3.1 (with rollout) and cannot be modified.
The Tesla is still my choice but all of those cars used to be in the high 4s or 5s when the model 3 was announced.

 

[dfwatt]

I replaced my well worn PS4S on my BMW M2 with RE71R (predecessor to RE71RS). The tires had amazing grip. So much so thaty when I drove over painted road surfaces it sounded like Velcro being pulled apart with the rubber sticking to the painted surfaces. They wore out quickly but had more grip than the PS4S. The RE71RS I've heard are even better. But I would not buy them again for regular street use as they were very loud on the highway, to the point I was using my noise cancellation earbuds to protect my hearing. I don't remember the noise level in the car but it was over what OSHA would allow in our shop for more than 30 minutes of exposure. LOL

The near-universal take on the re71 is that if they are used as both Street and track tire you're going to love them on the track and hate them on the street. They also are expert at throwing stones into your body work

 

[Knightshade]

The 2022 BMW M3 X-drive actually does a 3.0 0-60 -

The car in that video is $97,000.... as cited in the video.

It's laughable you'd give that as an example of "competition" for the $56,900 Model 3 performance.

The 2022 Audi RS3 (yes the RS line is more of a competitor than the regular S) is in the mid-high 3s

https://www.carindigo.com/news/2022-audi-rs3-revealed-401-hp-motor-0-60-in-3-8-sec-awd-with-drift-mode

That says 3.8.

So... even slower than the non performance Model 3 AWD if you have AB.

Extra embarrassing for Audi given it seems like they're gonna want like 70k for that and the AWD with AB is 52k.

Mercedes' AMG coupe is now in the 3s as well.

Now you're comparing 2-doors to sedans?

LOL as the kids say.

Double LOL since the base AMG coupe remains slower than the AB non performance 3 while costing like 20-30k more (or higher depending on options.

The M3P does 3.1 (with rollout) and cannot be modified.

Again your claims are not accurate.

It does 2.998 with rollout- in fact tested by the same source as the one you just posted from

The Tesla is still my choice but all of those cars used to be in the high 4s or 5s when the model 3 was announced.

I mean, I literally just gave you links showing they were in the high 3s and low 4s when the 3P came out... and mostly still are in 2021 editions.


So again none of your claims appear supported by facts- indeed they seem largely contradicted by them, and to get even close (not quicker) to the Ps performance you need to spend tens of thousands more (and only get those close results using magic launch modes, where in a P you just floor the thing).

 

[Gimmethecash]

2017 M3: 3.8 (Motortrend)
2017 RS3: 3.6 (Motortrend) 3.5 (C&D)

Not 4’s & 5’s for these two when the Model 3 was announced.

 

[ysaliens]

Ok guys - you're right.

I never said the M3P is slow. It's still faster than most. That's not my argument.
But it hasn't gotten much faster in 4 years.

The M3 LR got the AB which brings it much closer to a M3P. You can say the LR got a lot faster with that update and the dual 5% software updates.
The M3P doesn't have such an option. And it doesn't have the option to put a bigger turbo on it like gasoline cars.
You're stuck with what you have and what you have hasn't changed in a bit.

The base model S is now faster. That probably means the new model 3 performance is right around the corner (reddit has a thread with someone finding firmware references to it). But it's not here now.

 

[Gimmethecash]

The base Model S LR is the same 3.1 0-60 as the M3P, not faster. It’s also $33K more.

 

[Knightshade]

Ok guys - you're right.

I never said the M3P is slow. It's still faster than most. That's not my argument.
But it hasn't gotten much faster in 4 years.

It hasn't needed to.

It's still (apart from possibly the C8) the quickest car on the market anywhere near its price.

By quite a bit.

All the other ICE cars you've mentioned cost significantly more and (apart from a $97,000 BMW) are still slower.

The M3 LR got the AB which brings it much closer to a M3P

It closes half the gap roughly (slightly less than half really)

. You can say the LR got a lot faster with that update and the dual 5% software updates.
The M3P doesn't have such an option.

The P got faster with both 5% updates.

The dragtimes video you were linked to showing a 2.9x run with a P was after the second 5% update.


There's no "additional" unlock because there's nothing to unlock.

And it doesn't have the option to put a bigger turbo on it like gasoline cars.

Neither do the gasoline cars if you care about the vehicle warranty (or overall drivability or reliability in many cases).

The base model S is now faster.

It's actually about the same... but the S costs about $33,000 more.

Which continues to make the 3P a phenomenal deal.


You keep acting like price is irrelevant for some reason.

 

[ysaliens]

The base model S 0-60 is a true 0-60....and not rollout numbers. It's ~0.1-0.2s faster to 60 and it runs high 10s quarter mile which is quite a bit faster than M3P
Sure it costs 33K MORE but I'd make the argument you get WAY MORE VALUE FOR THE MONEY than the current M3P. It gets ~25% more range, it gets a way nicer interior, it gets a better sound system, it gets better seats, a real instrument cluster, and better infotainment.
Not to mention the air suspension and quieter ride which aren't even an option on the 3.

I would get one if it wasn't so big. The new base model X is also going to be in that ballpark and again will be a better value than the current 3P.
I would gladly pay 80-90k for a faster model 3 with more range.

 

[Knightshade]

The base model S 0-60 is a true 0-60....and not rollout numbers

Source?

I haven't seen an actual test yet of that.

. It's ~0.1-0.2s faster to 60 and it runs high 10s quarter mile which is quite a bit faster than M3P
Sure it costs 33K MORE

Gonna stop you there- because your argument hasn't made sense from the start- and still doesn't.

If costing 50% more doesn't matter then just buy a Plaid.

I mean, it's 100% more but does 1.99 0-60, so now you're finally quicker than the $97,000 BMW.

Congrats!

 

[ysaliens]

You can find the times in the Model S section of the forum.

But regardless, I took this a bit off topic and I'm sorry. Let's get back on topic.
I hope we get another software update for 2021 refreshed model 3s with a tad more power. Or an unlock option.
I also hope a refreshed M3P comes this or next year

 

[thesmokingman]

The car in that video is $97,000.... as cited in the video.

It's laughable you'd give that as an example of "competition" for the $56,900 Model 3 performance.

https://www.carindigo.com/news/2022-audi-rs3-revealed-401-hp-motor-0-60-in-3-8-sec-awd-with-drift-mode

That says 3.8.

So... even slower than the non performance Model 3 AWD if you have AB.

Extra embarrassing for Audi given it seems like they're gonna want like 70k for that and the AWD with AB is 52k.




Now you're comparing 2-doors to sedans?

LOL as the kids say.

Double LOL since the base AMG coupe remains slower than the AB non performance 3 while costing like 20-30k more (or higher depending on options.





Again your claims are not accurate.

It does 2.998 with rollout- in fact tested by the same source as the one you just posted from

I mean, I literally just gave you links showing they were in the high 3s and low 4s when the 3P came out... and mostly still are in 2021 editions.


So again none of your claims appear supported by facts- indeed they seem largely contradicted by them, and to get even close (not quicker) to the Ps performance you need to spend tens of thousands more (and only get those close results using magic launch modes, where in a P you just floor the thing).

Don't sweat it man. Those other cars will get killed on the street or really anywhere else if those cars don't have a pro driver. Regular ppl can't hit those advertised times. And on the street its even more comical.

 

[csammy]

I don't consider the Model 3 Performance a "fast" car because it has a really slow trap speed. That's what matters to me more, trap speed instead of 0-60. Here in Florida we don't stop at 60 and we don't always start at 0.

I was considering leasing a M3P but I can't get past that slow 116 ish trap speed. That's barely faster than my old Challenger SRT. M3P might win stop light wars, but roll races and the highway? No.

I'm leaning towards either the Model S Long Range to lease, or a used 2020 Model S Raven to purchase. But the M3 competition xdrive just came out and the base model is 76k, which is what I'm interested in. I learned a JB4 tune on the new M3/M4 competition xdrive turns into into a 10 second monster at 130+ trap speed. That rivals the M5 competition, which in itself can be tuned to be even faster. A 2019 M5 competition is in my consideration list as well, but I prefer leasing next time around and an M3 xdrive seems more appealing performance wise than an M3P or Model S Long Range, especially since the M3 xdrive can be modified to put out alot more power.

 

[Knightshade]

I don't consider the Model 3 Performance a "fast" car because it has a really slow trap speed. That's what matters to me more, trap speed instead of 0-60. Here in Florida we don't stop at 60 and we don't always start at 0.

I was considering leasing a M3P but I can't get past that slow 116 ish trap speed. That's barely faster than my old Challenger SRT. M3P might win stop light wars, but roll races and the highway? No.

I'm leaning towards either the Model S Long Range to lease, or a used 2020 Model S Raven to purchase. But the M3 competition xdrive just came out and the base model is 76k, which is what I'm interested in. I learned a JB4 tune on the new M3/M4 competition xdrive turns into into a 10 second monster at 130+ trap speed. That rivals the M5 competition, which in itself can be tuned to be even faster. A 2019 M5 competition is in my consideration list as well, but I prefer leasing next time around and an M3 xdrive seems more appealing performance wise than an M3P or Model S Long Range, especially since the M3 xdrive can be modified to put out alot more power.

If all you care about is trap speed and don't mind pay a ton more $ to get it (since you're looking at cars starting at 76k and topping 100k if you actually option them decently) then skip all that slow German garbage and buy yourself a Plaid Model S.

Even better no need to mod and void your warranty to still be able to flat out embarrass even the modded versions of those M cars.

 

[Sam1]

I don't consider the Model 3 Performance a "fast" car because it has a really slow trap speed. That's what matters to me more, trap speed instead of 0-60. Here in Florida we don't stop at 60 and we don't always start at 0.

I was considering leasing a M3P but I can't get past that slow 116 ish trap speed. That's barely faster than my old Challenger SRT. M3P might win stop light wars, but roll races and the highway? No.

I'm leaning towards either the Model S Long Range to lease, or a used 2020 Model S Raven to purchase. But the M3 competition xdrive just came out and the base model is 76k, which is what I'm interested in. I learned a JB4 tune on the new M3/M4 competition xdrive turns into into a 10 second monster at 130+ trap speed. That rivals the M5 competition, which in itself can be tuned to be even faster. A 2019 M5 competition is in my consideration list as well, but I prefer leasing next time around and an M3 xdrive seems more appealing performance wise than an M3P or Model S Long Range, especially since the M3 xdrive can be modified to put out alot more power.

I will tell you as a BMW owner, DO NOT buy a BMW. You will spend thousands upon thousands keeping it running on an annual basis. And also most people are moving away from JB4 because it's antiquated piggyback technology. They're trying really hard to remain relevant, but they're old news for the most part. If you go the BMW route, at least just flash MHD on it.

 

[csammy]

If all you care about is trap speed and don't mind pay a ton more $ to get it (since you're looking at cars starting at 76k and topping 100k if you actually option them decently) then skip all that slow German garbage and buy yourself a Plaid Model S.

Even better no need to mod and void your warranty to still be able to flat out embarrass even the modded versions of those M cars.

I do have a budget range and as much I would like to get a Model S Plaid, the payment doesn't fit into it. The lease options aren't very good at the moment and I'd be better off leasing a Model S Long range for considerably cheaper (though I'm still displeased with Mr. Elon Musk's recent price increase on the Long Range). This will likely be my option if I can't find a 2020 Model S Raven to purchase for a decent price in this current used car market.

 

[csammy]

I will tell you as a BMW owner, DO NOT buy a BMW. You will spend thousands upon thousands keeping it running on an annual basis. And also most people are moving away from JB4 because it's antiquated piggyback technology. They're trying really hard to remain relevant, but they're old news for the most part. If you go the BMW route, at least just flash MHD on it.

What's troubling is that you are not the first to tell me this. I have heard the same from other BMW owners, techs who worked on them, etc.. to avoid getting a BMW, even a new one.

Also the only reason I mentioned JB4 is that M3/M4 xdrive owners are reporting great results with it. Like this:

 

[Sam1]

What's troubling is that you are not the first to tell me this. I have heard the same from other BMW owners, techs who worked on them, etc.. to avoid getting a BMW, even a new one.

Also the only reason I mentioned JB4 is that M3/M4 xdrive owners are reporting great results with it. Like this:

There's a reason you are hearing it from every angle, it's true.