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That would make sense -- it'll certainly be a *lot* easier for a custom shop which can look at an actual car -- but of course very few people in my area are getting a Model S! And I'm quite far from all the big cities where the really high-end custom shops are.
I may well take you up on that Chicago offer, I do visit the Chicago area since I have family there.
spatterso911 -- thanks very much for the offer... California, however, is a bit far from upstate NY!
With my current car in good shape and driving relatively little per year, I can afford to wait to get back in the queue, but really I probably will do so eventually (and hey, maybe the 2014 model will have some improvements, like the Roadster 2.0 did).
Thanks.
I guess I am better off as a "later adopter" than an "early adopter".I do *very much* appreciate the people who are willing to have their car examined by custom shops for my benefit...
Depends on what sticks to Alcantara and how thick the seal would have to be to stop "shedding". Some things just don't stick properly to other things, and it's a substance I don't know much about. Polyurethane sticks to a lot of things, though.
Of course if I get a Standard -- now that my Signature reservation is cancelled -- I'll have microfiber polyester headliner, and dash and door inserts, to replace/seal. Actually, customizers may understand better how to seal those more common materials. A customizer could probably *examine* the attachments on a Signature, as the attachment will be the same.
If I can arrange to solve these problems, it'll probably end up saving me money over the Signature anyway.
Hopefully with all your help I'll end up getting 'the perfect' model S for me in a year or two.
mwu
Member
I think you could probably use a vacuum bagging process to seal the headliner. You would use the headliner as its own mold to laminate another layer to it sealing away the polyester. I would probably choose an epoxy resin. Someone here may know more than me, but my understanding is epoxy resin creates a chemical bond whereas polyester resins create mechanical bonds (besides, you'd be allergic to that resin anyway). You could even use the process to put new fabric over the existing one if you didn't just want a hard smooth surface. I'd probably do it in a two-step process if I wanted to ensure a perfect covering over the existing headliner.
The process shouldn't be too expensive or difficult. There are plenty of people who build their own skateboards, kayaks, and hobby airplane parts using this process. You could do it yourself if you weren't so allergic -- my main concern would be getting the seal you need without making the headliner too thick to fit back into the car if any other panels need to overlap it.
The process shouldn't be too expensive or difficult. There are plenty of people who build their own skateboards, kayaks, and hobby airplane parts using this process. You could do it yourself if you weren't so allergic -- my main concern would be getting the seal you need without making the headliner too thick to fit back into the car if any other panels need to overlap it.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
mwu
Member
That is true. I can't imagine a thin coating of epoxy and an additional layer of fabric would stop the airbag, but it could divert the airbag or damage the airbag during deploy. I'm pretty sure the epoxy would crack and break for such a thin layer. Surfboards are made with the stuff and I know just how easy it is to ding and crack those. I'd want to double-check with a pro to make sure that wouldn't be a worry. Another thing to note -- if the epoxy does crack and give way to the airbag on deploy, the polyester would then be exposed and neroden may have to deal with an allergic reaction in addition to the accident.
The best solution would be for Tesla to use a different fabric during the headliner lamination process for neroden. Another potential solution would be to use the headliner to create a mold that could be used to create a new headliner using a similar process to Tesla's, but it'd face the same issue as the one I described earlier -- you'd need to be sure that the airbags could deploy properly. Even though it would be based on a mold of the original, that wouldn't guarantee the same characteristics under the stress of airbags being deployed.
The best solution would be for Tesla to use a different fabric during the headliner lamination process for neroden. Another potential solution would be to use the headliner to create a mold that could be used to create a new headliner using a similar process to Tesla's, but it'd face the same issue as the one I described earlier -- you'd need to be sure that the airbags could deploy properly. Even though it would be based on a mold of the original, that wouldn't guarantee the same characteristics under the stress of airbags being deployed.
If they're willing to do a custom paint job for $12,000 maybe they'd be willing to do something with the headliner for a similar price. We were to able to confirm that it is indeed impossible for them to pull the car off the line and do this for you or just that they weren't willing to do it. Maybe they don't want to start a precedent of custom interior work but I'd imagine your request is not common.
To use the different material they would likely have to go through the certification process again, or at least part of it, and probably crash a few cars to prove it's safe. Unless there are a couple dozen requests I don't see it being economically viable for Tesla. Even at $12K a pop.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I'm confused on why headliner material would make a difference in crash testing. It's not part of the structural integrity of the vehicle. Is it?? The pano roof has no material.
The side airbags have to break through the liner. It's prescored from behind but there's no reason someone can't replace the liner with something non allergic. Probably around $2000 max picking up from a auto upholstery specialist.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Makes sense - but it would also make sense that an airbag test could be conducted in a lab, under controlled conditions, once a specification was established. I've had some success with other gov't agencies in using common sense - but it is what it is.
I'd just take it to an upholstery specialist, too.
It's because they have to certify the airbag system, I believe, of which the headliner is a part. if they make any modifications to it, they can't sell it without going through the certification process all over again.
@Bonnie1194 - Also it seems that there is a structural relationship with the fabric...
A. Sometimes bureaucratic rules are just bureaucratic rules regardless of applicability. (The city really hates me on this one--or vice-versa.)
B. Airbag deployment in an actual crash. Because it's possible--even if only slightly possible--that the airbag deployment could change with an altered cover, a partial or full test may be required to get the different material certified. It will depend upon the rules and who's interpreting them that day.
B. Airbag deployment in an actual crash. Because it's possible--even if only slightly possible--that the airbag deployment could change with an altered cover, a partial or full test may be required to get the different material certified. It will depend upon the rules and who's interpreting them that day.
Adm
Active Member
I have been watching this thread for some time now and I just don't get it.
Suppose I take my Model S to IKEA and I load it up to the roof with Billy bookcases. With the last one I scrape/tear the headliner. Now please convince me that Tesla cannot replace the headliner in that case. If they can replace the headliner, they can cover it with other materials.
Other example. Suppose I get into an accident and the curtain airbags deploy. I have assume that the car isn´t totaled just because the curtain airbags deploy.
I can imagine however they have other problems than trying to please the need of every single reservation holder. They have a car to build and deliver before July ends and than some more. I suspect they will try and individualize cars when they have production up and running and charge heavily (as is habit in this sector) for special demands.
Suppose I take my Model S to IKEA and I load it up to the roof with Billy bookcases. With the last one I scrape/tear the headliner. Now please convince me that Tesla cannot replace the headliner in that case. If they can replace the headliner, they can cover it with other materials.
Other example. Suppose I get into an accident and the curtain airbags deploy. I have assume that the car isn´t totaled just because the curtain airbags deploy.
I can imagine however they have other problems than trying to please the need of every single reservation holder. They have a car to build and deliver before July ends and than some more. I suspect they will try and individualize cars when they have production up and running and charge heavily (as is habit in this sector) for special demands.
Not necessarily. They may lift the headliner out as a single piece and replace the whole thing, plastic and all, with a new polyester-covered headliner. Expensive way to "repair" it, but not unheard of.
I can hope. Anyway, once one of you actually gets a model S, if you're willing to take it into your favorite custom shop and have them examine it with me, if I can get a shop to say "Sure, we can replace all that polyester", then I'll get back in the queue. Alternatively, if Tesla ever agrees to make a custom headliner, I'll go ahead and order it. Or maybe the Bluestar will have more solid plastic and less upholstery (I wanted a slightly smaller 4-door anyway). One way or another I'll be getting an electric car, and probably a Tesla, I guess just not this year. Which is probably just as well, as I was unable to use the $7500 tax credit this year anyway.
