PV4EV
Member
I've not been able to see a Model S (or X!) up close and am very eager to do so, but if you have been fortunate enough to experience one yourself can you summarise what physical controls were on the wheel or around the dash ?
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Touchscreen practical while driving? Safety issue?
- Thread starter thomas.rueesch
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- Model S User Interface
I've not been able to see a Model S (or X!) up close and am very eager to do so, but if you have been fortunate enough to experience one yourself can you summarise what physical controls were on the wheel or around the dash ?
Combined response to Robert's and Bonnie's posts...
If all moving-vehicle capabilities (i.e. not radio and AC, for example) are controllable with the 17" screen offline (or covered up) then I think they've struck the right balance.
In contrast, I tend to agree it's a design problem if safety or drivability is hampered by an offline, covered, or broken 17" display.
If all moving-vehicle capabilities (i.e. not radio and AC, for example) are controllable with the 17" screen offline (or covered up) then I think they've struck the right balance.
In contrast, I tend to agree it's a design problem if safety or drivability is hampered by an offline, covered, or broken 17" display.
I think it is cheaper to produce! I really think it is equally expensive or less expensive to put a $500 computer/screen (probably closer to $300) into the dash than it is to make knobs and buttons and a radio display and have them all work properly. And I KNOW it is cheaper to design. Plus you don't have crappy 'dummy' button slots on your car (mine does). And you can add any button you want.
That being said I want physical controls for the things I use all the time WHILE DRIVING.
Lights. I turn on and off my fog lamps with conditions. My headlamps are always on (DRL are the same HIDs as my regular Headlamps) I turn them 'on' and 'off' to flash my tail lights (I actually have to pull my parking brake to turn off my headlamps when the car is on). I also have a rear fog which I also use to signal people behind me, as well as turn on in very dense fog, or heavy rain. I do this fairly often and would prefer this on a dial on the dash near my left knee. But would be happy with any physical fog/headlight/off (or DRL) selection anywhere. Brights WILL be on a stalk (not even worried about this one), almost surely the blinker stalk. I hope they are pull to flash, and pushlock to keep them on. But I can handle a toggle brights functionality.
I almost never change radio stations when driving (always on NPR/classical). I am not really a fan of opera so I will change it then. But advance preset button on the wheel would work for me, even preset buttons on the screen would work as I can handle a few minutes of opera before I need to change the channel. And I almost never change bands FM/AM. In the Tesla I might change to 'USB drive' but dealing with the file structure there it will require attention so it will be fine on the touchscreen. It will be way better than me manipulating my Zune while driving! :scared:
Volume on the wheel is nice, I have them currently. But I almost always use the knob on the dash, it is faster. Not a big deal. I do have a mute button on my wheel which I use often. But it is something that I can easily live without.
All the other knobs on my car have the finish falling off from me drumming my fingers on them. They don't actually get used.
I hope Cruise control is on a stalk. I like my VW one a lot. I don't use Cruise all that much. This WILL not be only on the screen anyway.
All in all I am not terribly concerned with manual inputs. I would really like light controls, and a volume rocker on the steering wheel and I am set. If the lights are only on the screen I guess I am rolling with all my lights all the time. I have pretty good faith Tesla will get this done in a safe and 95% (or better) convenient manner.
So to summarize, more buttons on the dash....Aren't they fixing this in RC? :tongue:
But on a more relevant note, screens are getting integrated into mission critical vehicles--this is fact. We now know ALL controls needed to function the driving aspects of the S do not involve the touch screen anyway. (Not once do you need to touch it to drive the car from A to B.) In the Tesla, it's going to come down to the information displayed and how we interact with accessories on a screen. In terms of safety, it's the driver to decide if changing the radio, opening the roof, or changing temp needs to be done at the same time as passing in traffic.
We don't want NHTSA to regulate progress with in-vehicle technology. iDrive, MyFord and most others are awful but got away with it; the competition of Tesla's screen will force industry to improve interfaces, touch screen or otherwise.
But on a more relevant note, screens are getting integrated into mission critical vehicles--this is fact. We now know ALL controls needed to function the driving aspects of the S do not involve the touch screen anyway. (Not once do you need to touch it to drive the car from A to B.) In the Tesla, it's going to come down to the information displayed and how we interact with accessories on a screen. In terms of safety, it's the driver to decide if changing the radio, opening the roof, or changing temp needs to be done at the same time as passing in traffic.
We don't want NHTSA to regulate progress with in-vehicle technology. iDrive, MyFord and most others are awful but got away with it; the competition of Tesla's screen will force industry to improve interfaces, touch screen or otherwise.
There is a reason that Mercedes & BMW do not use touchscreens in their vehicles...Are clear thinking grownups running these car companies? or is Tesla that much smarter than these car companies?
BMW & MB are run by German engineers. "This is how we have always made cars. Progress is made through incremental innovation."
Tesla is run by a Silicon Valley genius. "What should a 21st century car look like?"
21st century car should have everything completely controlled by voice (accurately), this is the safest way to interact with a vehicle....If Tesla merely replaced conventional buttons with a touch screen I do not think that is that great of an accomplishment.
Tesla isn't the only company using touchscreens in their vehicles... Also, who had capacitive touchscreens on phones before the iPhone? Hey, how many automakers use batteries in their vehicles like tesla?
Seriously, how about driving and experiencing the car before deriding it for its perceived shortcomings.
smorgasbord
Active Member
Well, no one has yet been able to come up with a good reason for BMW's iDrive. Even Apple couldn't fix it. It's a flawed concept to use a Telephone Menu tree to access functionality in a car. What's sad is that BMW's used to have the best dashboard layouts.
I used to own BMWs back before they started designing for Americans. No iDrive and no cup holders! And seats with side bolsters were standard.
gmontem
Model S P01707
I believe capactive touch screens were developed in the late 60s.
But as far as first mobile phone to use a capactive touch screen, I believe that honor goes to the LG Prada.
Fair enough, but when the iPhone made its debut, there were still all sorts of negative comments: "how can I use that in the winter?" "Won't my screen get all smudgy?" "I need to be able to feel the keys to dial quickly" etc. 5 years later... My point is: once again, people are harping on something they have not yet used in practice.
Let's get some time in one of these guys then see how much of the doom and gloom is warranted (and it may very well be warranted, but no one KNOWS that yet, they're just idly spinning tales of horrific incidents).
My understanding is that the Model S will have extensive voice command control. We will see.
Incompatible with cupholders.
Also, when I have a cough I don't want that to cause a collision because I couldn't muster up "decelerate!" fast enough.
It would also make for some interesting self-driving vehicle stories when you happen to pick the wrong "song" while driving on the freeway.
... and now we're back to the test drive topic. :wink:
HAH!
You know what I meant...everything that is a distraction while driving radio, hvac, heated/vented seats, sunroof, nav, phone etc...
The driving directions in the cluster is something I love in my Mercedes I am looking forward to it in the Model S...If one can really have the same functionality from the cluster/steering wheel controls (coupled with voice command) as one would have with the 17 inch screen then the 17 inch screen would just be an auxiliary info/entertainment screen for passengers.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
I wouldn't bet on it.
Seeing all the little things they don't seem to have thought about (I mean the Beta is supposed to be 90% production model!), I have my doubts. Not enough to not want to buy the car, but still. As you say we are all grown up people and we are here to voice our concerns if we have any. I'm sure the folks at Tesla are following what's happening here and I'm even more sure that they will take what we discuss as valuable feedback - even if they don't incorporate each and every one of our wishes into their cars.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Amen to that. Just like my current BMW. 2004 330 Cd. Great dashboard layout, no iDrive or anything like it. Even my four year old daughter knows most of the buttons' functions (which isn't always the best thing... ;-) )
strider
Active Member
But it's no different than someone fiddling with temperature controls or the radio. Buttons or touchscreens, people have been taking their eyes off the road for as long as there have been roads. Are you going to ban children and other passengers? Food and drinks? Also, if you've looked at a 911 console recently there are like 60 buttons with a little picture on each of them - there's no way you can memorize them all so you are once again taking your eyes off the road. Modern cars are complex - there needs to be some smart UI design.
I go back and forth on this. With a touchscreen you can bury rarely-used items in sub menus thereby freeing up space for commonly-used ones. If you have physical buttons you can't do this - every function has to have a button. And I have had my finger get bounced into the wrong button before. If anything a touchscreen can help here as they could make it work like an iphone and only select when you remove your finger. So you could press and hold and only when you're sure you're on the right selection you could remove your finger. Yes you have to take your eyes off the road but you have to do that with buttons too. Finally, you can make the selections on a touchscreen enormous and in fact easier to hit without looking than a button.
strider
Active Member
Old World? German car manufacturers have been the pioneers of cramming as much technology as possible into cars. You yourself made a comment about iDrive. Mercedes has something similar. Porsche has chosen to just place 60 tiny buttons all over the dash and console. I look at a 911 dash as the opposite of usability.
Also, back in the old days, cars didn't have radios, temperature controls, etc. So at those points in time you could say that those things would cause millions of people to die on the roads. But that didn't happen. We've adapted as humans and we'll adapt to this. Yes, people do get into accidents because they are playing with their phones, radio, yelling at their kids, etc. But people cut themselves with kitchen knives too - should we ban them because some people misuse them?
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