Towed Teslas at SFO, after getting unplugged?

[jestipher]

Hi Folks,

Parked at SFO short term parking for a trip over the holidays. Was charging at a ChargePoint. Was unplugged a few days in - which I guess I’m fine with, presumably because someone saw on the ChargePoint screen that I was done.

However I noticed that both Tesla’s next to me were also unplugged... not sure what their state of charge was.
Then as I exited the garage, I noticed 3 Tesla’s getting towed. 2 Model 3’s, one X. Guessing vampire drain took them down to 0.

Which caused me to wonder:
- maybe these were newbs that didn’t know about vampire drain
Or
- maybe they were charging and got unplugged part way through. Making me rethink the whole unplugging etiquette.

Thoughts?

J

 

[Derek Kessler]

Last time I parked in the CVG airport garage my S was unplugged after just 8 hours. Thankfully I rolled in with enough range that the expected vampire drainage won't ruin my attempt to drive home, but it was really disheartening that somebody would do that.

 

[bmah]

There's not enough information to conclude what happened to those towed cars.

I personally wouldn't tie up a ChargePoint charger (or the space where a ChargePoint charger is) while I went on a trip for days.

Bruce.

 

[jestipher]

Yeah, I debated that but given all the vampire drain stories and the length of time I was traveling, hogging a spot for an extended period seemed like the only option. Didn’t feel terrible esp when there are usually another 10 unoccupied spots nearby... but welcomimg other suggestions

Sure does seem like unplugging someone when there are many available spots, and in my case both spots adjacent have their own charger units, is a bit of a head scratcher.

There's not enough information to conclude what happened to those towed cars.

I personally wouldn't tie up a ChargePoint charger (or the space where a ChargePoint charger is) while I went on a trip for days.

Bruce.

 

[tranzndance]

How long is considered short term parking?

 

[appleguru]

There's not enough information to conclude what happened to those towed cars.

I personally wouldn't tie up a ChargePoint charger (or the space where a ChargePoint charger is) while I went on a trip for days.

Bruce.

Normally I’d agree with you, but not at an airport. The entire point of a level 2 or lower charger at an airport is to allow people parking there (and going on trips) to charge their EV.

Nobody just driving through/picking someone up at the airport will be there long enough for a L2 charger to be useful.

I would never unplug someone else’s car, *especially* at an airport.

(Usually, when I park at a charger at the airport it is for a 2-7 day trip. My typical charging strategy is to set the charge level to 60-70% when I plug in (at least enough to make sure I can get home). And then on the day I am returning, I bump it up to 90+% depending on plans/needed charge level. This of course wouldn’t be possible if someone unplugged me!)

 

[bmah]

Yeah, I debated that but given all the vampire drain stories and the length of time I was traveling, hogging a spot for an extended period seemed like the only option. Didn’t feel terrible esp when there are usually another 10 unoccupied spots nearby... but welcomimg other suggestions

How many days were you gone? My S85D loses maybe 1.5% SOC per day and that's without any particular attempts to save energy.

Also, isn't parking in short-term (the hourly lot, right?) at SFO for multiple days kind of expensive? It looks like $36/day max.j

I don't have a good solution for SFO (I usually ride-share to get there), but at OAK I use an off-airport long-term parking with J1772s and valets who move the cars around to make sure you have a full charge when you're ready to pick up your car (Expresso Airport Parking in case anyone's wondering). I wonder if there's something similar for SFO.

Sure does seem like unplugging someone when there are many available spots, and in my case both spots adjacent have their own charger units, is a bit of a head scratcher.

Agreed. Unfortunately you weren't there to see what happened or find out why they were doing what they were doing so that's always going to be a mystery.

A number of people here have suggested in other threads that the ideal airport solution for long-term parking (travelers parking for multiple days) is a bunch of 120V outlets for EVs to trickle-charge. If your car is going to be there a really long time you don't need a fast charge rate.

Bruce.

 

[appleguru]

And yes, airport parking is expensive ($30-40/day). One of the main reasons I opt to pay the premium to park there these days is so I can come home to a nicely charged car!

 

[bmah]

Normally I’d agree with you, but not at an airport. The entire point of a level 2 or lower charger at an airport is to allow people parking there (and going on trips) to charge their EV.

Nobody just driving through/picking someone up at the airport will be there long enough for a L2 charger to be useful.

I don't know people who go on trips but park in short-term parking, especially at SFO. (I expect now to see a flood of replies to the contrary!) Nevermind, I see where you do.

A few weeks ago, I actually did completely recharge my wife's PHEV during an exceptionally long drop-off process at the SFO International terminal, but that's likely not the use case you had in mind.

I would never unplug someone else’s car, *especially* at an airport.

Yep. Although note that at least in SFO International (don't know about domestic) the chargers are free so if one was really desperate, one could in theory unplug someone and plug them back in.

(Usually, when I park at a charger at the airport it is for a 2-7 day trip. My typical charging strategy is to set the charge level to 60-70% when I plug in (at least enough to make sure I can get home). And then on the day I am returning, I bump it up to 90+% depending on plans/needed charge level. This of course wouldn’t be possible if someone unplugged me!)

If I'm going for a week or less, I'm not going to worry about vampire drain, etc. and I'm probably not going to worry about plugging in. (I've done week-long trips and parked in SFO long-term parking with no charging and it worked out great.) There are probably a bunch of factors (weather, distance from home to airport, availability of Superchargers, etc.) that won't apply to everyone, but basically I'll range charge at home before I leave for the airport and by time I get back I'll still have enough to get home. Backup plan is to hit a Supercharger or CHAdeMO station on the way home.

Anyway, I probably shouldn't even be posting to this thread. I was mostly reacting to the idea of an L2 charger being tied up for days when it's sitting idle and unavailable most of the time. I only really take a few flights a year.

Safe travels, all!

Bruce.

 

[ewoodrick]

I wish airports would learn.
Long term parking needs lots of 120v plugs.
Short term needs J1772
Hourly needs fast charging.

When they pit J1772 outlets where people park for a few days, problems will occur.

ATL has a off airport parking with 50 120v plugs, it's the perfect answer

 

[ivan801]

I think that installing J1772 in airport parking lots is just stupid. Yet a lot of airports do it. 120V outlets would work fine in just about any case when traveler catches a flight. My shortest trip ever was 6 am departure 10 pm arrival back on the same day, but even for that trip 120V would be just fine as I would be able to add about 60 miles of range (and most people drive less than 60 miles to the airport). Worst case, 60 miles would get you to a supercharger. And very small percentage of trips is out and back on the same day.

Adding fast charging in short term parking would be very beneficial for those who are dropping someone off and need to charge to make it back. But at the end of the day, airports should focus on installing 120v outlets in parking garages.

 

[lotusland]

It's not a simple issue, but IMO there is no case where it would be OK to leave a car in an EV spot for multiple days. Protocol for chargers does not vary according to Tesla design shortcomings like vampire drain.

 

[mbonness]

According to the SFO webpage it looks like at least one of their charging stations is for valet parking. So maybe that's what they want people to use who want to keep their car charged long term, assuming well heeled Tesla owners can afford $45 / day for valet parking. There doesn't seem to be any info posted on SFO or Chargepoint about how long one can park a car in one of the charging stalls before it gets towed.

Also found this thread that mentioned someone's car was unplugged and their J1772 adapter was gone when they returned from their trip. If I were parking my car at SFO would probably try to chat up someone who works at the airport to figure out what is going on.

At O'Hare airport it looks like PreFlight parking nearby has 16 120v charging stations available to customers who pay for "premium" covered parking ($15/day).

 

[appleguru]

It's not a simple issue, but IMO there is no case where it would be OK to leave a car in an EV spot for multiple days. Protocol for chargers does not vary according to Tesla design shortcomings like vampire drain.

There is 1 case where it is in fact acceptable. That case is airport parking...

 

[appleguru]

I think that installing J1772 in airport parking lots is just stupid. Yet a lot of airports do it. 120V outlets would work fine in just about any case when traveler catches a flight. My shortest trip ever was 6 am departure 10 pm arrival back on the same day, but even for that trip 120V would be just fine as I would be able to add about 60 miles of range (and most people drive less than 60 miles to the airport). Worst case, 60 miles would get you to a supercharger. And very small percentage of trips is out and back on the same day.

Adding fast charging in short term parking would be very beneficial for those who are dropping someone off and need to charge to make it back. But at the end of the day, airports should focus on installing 120v outlets in parking garages.

I agree that J1772's are overkill for most situations where a vehicle is expected to be plugged into for multiple days at a time like at an airport, but they do provide several advantages for such installations too, including:
1) Allow for detailed usage statistics (type of car, duration of charge, current draw, etc)
2) Use connectors designed for 10,000+ mating cycles
3) Don't put end user equipment at risk for theft (while Tesla's mobile connectors are mostly OK, many other car's 120V chargers could just get unplugged/easily stolen by a thief)
4) Are really designed for use outdoors in potentially inclement weather

 

[lotusland]

There is 1 case where it is in fact acceptable. That case is airport parking...

In a short-term lot? I don't see how that can be justified unless there are a ton of EV spots. Not everyone does cel phone drop-offs / pick-ups. By definition, most people parking in a short-term lot are there for a "short term" -- not multiple days. With the number of new EVs getting on the roads now, there will be many people at the airport who need some amount of charge. These people may be there for a pick-up, they may be traveling just for the day (commuting), or they may simply be near the airport and need a few miles of range. These are all cases where the user would not tie up a charger after being fully charged.

For long-term lots I can see where it would be a different story. I like the idea of 110v outlets at as many spots as possible. The less special these charging spots are, the more available they will be.

 

[RDoc]

It's not a simple issue, but IMO there is no case where it would be OK to leave a car in an EV spot for multiple days. Protocol for chargers does not vary according to Tesla design shortcomings like vampire drain.

That really doesn't make sense for airport parking. If the car needs to be charged to withstand vampire drain, and to get home, particularly if it's cold they need to be plugged in.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"

 

[ReddyLeaf]

I wish airports would learn.
Long term parking needs lots of 120v plugs.
Short term needs J1772
Hourly needs fast charging.

When they pit J1772 outlets where people park for a few days, problems will occur.

ATL has a off airport parking with 50 120v plugs, it's the perfect answer

Seattle has a bunch as well, but even they are often all full. Unfortunately, the future will require separate 120V plugs at nearly every parking spot. SFO and LAX are probably the vanguard, but all other airports will eventually discover it as well.

 

[SSonnentag]

Chargepoint is a for-profit company. If I were Chargepoint, I'd have multiple-day occupants towed myself.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I wish airports would learn.
Long term parking needs lots of 120v plugs.
Short term needs J1772
Hourly needs fast charging.

When they pit J1772 outlets where people park for a few days, problems will occur.

ATL has a off airport parking with 50 120v plugs, it's the perfect answer

Just because it is J1772, it doesn't mean it is Level 2 charging or that 120 volt outlets are needed. At Denver International Airport, they are doing things better but they could still use a lot more EV spots. Currently DIA has 36 J1772 charging stations. Of those, only 10 of them are Level 2. The others are all Level 1 and allow EV owners to charge slowly. That's all that is needed when cars are parked there for multiple days. By having Level 1 J1772 charging, EV owners don't need to bring their own own EVSE to plug into 120 volt outlets or worry about their EVSE/UMC getting stolen.

There are also several off-airport parking providers which have dedicated EV (J1772) or Tesla Wall Connector charging available as well. We always use those since we live far from the airport and can always be sure we'll be sufficiently charged when returning from a trip.