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Towed with 20 MYP today = abysmal

a2t2

Member
Jul 8, 2021
299
173
Atlanta
What kind of consumption numbers do you typically see when you aren't towing?
300-350 or so. But I could drive more conservatively.

On this tow trip, I was being very conservative, chill mode and really gentle lots of downhill coasting/regen to stops ect .. . Those dirtbikes are very expensive and Ive dropped one off the back of a hitch rack before, not fun. So you gotta drive with them on the trailer very carefully.

If I drove in chill mode all the time and as carefully I would prob see around 300 or even 275 wh/mi. These are the 21" wheels with big sticky tires so not ideal for max range...

But for the short trips where charging isnt an issue, I tend to drive the car a bit hard
 
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a2t2

Member
Jul 8, 2021
299
173
Atlanta
Difference being, it takes 5 minutes to refuel at a gas station (which are everywhere) and you do not have to unhitch your tow vehicle at every stop.

it probably saves 45 minutes vs. using a supercharger.

Towing in any Tesla is completely impractical if you are going > 50 miles in either direction.
yeah unfortunately I agree. And 50 hwy miles towing in the hills at 70 mph during freezing cold temps might drain even more than half the range. I seriously have zero idea how Ford is going to launch the F150 lightning. This is prob exactly why they havent. Nobody is going to buy a big electric truck that cant tow 50 miles lol. This is a big reason why ICE vehicles will continue to dominate 95% of the US market for at least 10 more years, despite the rhetoric. Trucks/SUV dominate the US market and will continue to do so.
 
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GtiMart

Active Member
Nov 13, 2019
1,585
1,446
Quebec City, Canada
Isn't the main issue the additional drag (more than the weight)? Towing with an open trailer with bikes on it must create a huge air resistance... much worse than small, aerodynamic camping trailers. IS there a way to cover the bikes somehow and make the shape more aerodynamic? Except from buying a new, closed trailer obviously?
 

a2t2

Member
Jul 8, 2021
299
173
Atlanta
honestly, I didnt see the wind resistance as being such an issue. even at 40 mph on the back roads the range was still falling off really bad. Its an open air trailer, mesh sides so the air can travel thru it, and 2 bikes facing fwd but they werent sticking out much past the roof line of the car

Ive got a smaller harbor freight trailer I can also try next time but I doubt the results will be much different
 

GtiMart

Active Member
Nov 13, 2019
1,585
1,446
Quebec City, Canada
Well... speed is the main range killer on EVs exactly because of rolling and air resistance, as everything else is extremely efficient. It seems that people pulling bigger loads have better results, and those loads seem to be closed and aero. I'm thus betting on turbulence and wind resistance as the main factor here. 40mph doesn't seem fast but put your arm out the window and you'll see there's quite a drag already at that speed :D
 
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jsight

Member
Apr 5, 2018
843
654
Charleston
yeah unfortunately I agree. And 50 hwy miles towing in the hills at 70 mph during freezing cold temps might drain even more than half the range. I seriously have zero idea how Ford is going to launch the F150 lightning. This is prob exactly why they havent. Nobody is going to buy a big electric truck that cant tow 50 miles lol. This is a big reason why ICE vehicles will continue to dominate 95% of the US market for at least 10 more years, despite the rhetoric. Trucks/SUV dominate the US market and will continue to do so.
I think that most trucks here are not used for towing, at least for large distances. Maybe 1/10th are actually seeing that kind of duty. There's a big market for trucks that just tow their owners back and forth to work and occasional lowes or home depot trips. For that matter, I think CT will see its biggest market as a super-comfortable SUV-like thing with amazing cargo space.
 
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CorneliusRox

Member
Mar 3, 2021
177
186
MN
I've said it before, I'll say it again: I'll get an EV truck when it can tow 10,000 lbs 1,000 miles in a day and has trucker style supercharger stations (pull through). That's what I commonly do with my diesel truck when the family goes camping, and any EV has to at least perform as well as it's ICE equivalent to get on my radar, but for the price point, they should outperform an ICE.

I don't care if it gets 300 miles of range, but if that's the case, they better figure out much faster than 350 kW because I'm guessing this truck would have one MASSIVE battery.

I love my car though :-D
 
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dhrivnak

Active Member
Jan 8, 2011
4,517
3,933
NE Tennessee
This is why we got a RAV4 Prime for our second car. Towing over 140 miles in the Model 3 is challenging unless I know I have 240v power which I usually do not have. When we took our RAV4 Prime on a 7000 mile camping trip we managed 31.7mpg or 28 if you count gas only. 937136C7-8988-4E4D-847B-9AB07DDA0474.jpeg
 
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acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,849
1,839
Richland, WA
Or you know, in the next 5+ years we’ll start to see 200kWh packs and 500kW+ Charging ability…

Even at 950 Wh/mi a 200kWh pack could do 200 miles. Say you protect the battery and have some buffer so only 90% down to 10%, that’s still ~160 miles (over 2 hours at 70mph) and if there were 500kWh chargers that maybe averaged 250kW from 10% up to 80% that would be 34 minutes and another 140 miles.

Sure maybe a gas car is still better, but you really can’t handle a 30 minute break in a 4 hour and 15 minute 300 mile drive?

I also feel like it’s only a matter of time before we see some universal standard on linking battery systems. It seems to me like a no brainer to build a camping trailer on a 75kWh or 100 kWh battery sled. That would probably drastically increase the stability and could keep the towing vehicle cheaper by only supplying the extra battery capacity for those customers that plan to tow. I figure SUVs will gradually move up to 150kWh on their own anyway, add another 75kWh or even 100kWh from the trailer? Man, that would be an awesome 225kWh to 250kWh. Potentially a decent amount of extra energy when you’re at the camp ground for LED lights and maybe even HVAC or basic cooking (microwave etc).
 
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acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,849
1,839
Richland, WA
Well I’ll be damned! I swear I didn’t know about this before I posted!


Apparently someone has the same idea as me already. A camping trailer with a 75kWh battery built into it! This is still very early days but this could very well be the future, at least until massive 500kWh solid state batteries 20 years from now, lol.

That thing doesn’t look ideal for camping, but is a heck of a lot better than tent camping. So sure, I could see a market for this, albeit it’s expensive still. Something tells me you might be closer to like 700 Wh/mi in a Model X instead of 900+. That means (once Tesla comes out with a CCS adapter) you could have 175kWh to work with… or maybe 250 miles of range. You could drive up to the lake 90 minutes away (~105 miles away) stay for a long weekend, and drive home.

Give it a few more years, and enough tweets to Elon and maybe we’ll get a more advanced tow package that allows for real time charging. You probably only need 50 to 60kW to sustain your travels as long as you main battery was like 50% or more full. I doubt long term heat would be much of an issue (that couldn’t be solved) at that rate. Bonus, you could unhook and charge both at once, so potentially already like 350kW or more (250 off the Tesla and maybe 100 or so on the trailer… since Tesla always seems to be a bit ahead of the pack.)

If they can fit 75kWh into a 12.5 foot platform, you likely can fit 100 to 125kWh into something like a Safari Alto. Colorado Teardrop Campers compares this to another of their trailers and the weight difference is about 480 pounds. Tesla is rumored to have a 75kWh Model 3/Y battery at about 1,000 pounds. So somewhere between 500 and 1,000 pounds for 75kWh.

The F17 Series Safari Condo travel trailers is ~1,765 pounds… so even 1,000 more pounds for a battery keeps you pretty well under the 3,500 pound capacity of the Model Y. Real world reports with the Model Y and the F1743 show roughly 635 Wh/mi at 65 mph and as low as 475 Wh/mi at 59mph. That could be a range of ~235 miles at 65mph up to 315 miles at 59mph!

We’re very close. Five more years or less and I think we’ll see 125kWh in X (or more) and 100kWh in something like an Safari Condo. That should be good for 300 miles at 65 to 70 mph. Add the additional superchargers and 3rd party chargers and I don’t think you’ll have a problem. I suspect Tesla will eventually smarten up and do longer cables or pull through sites once CyberTruck shows up. This will be especially true as Rivian and maybe even the Ford 150 design stuff like that or aim for towing, Tesla won’t want to be showed up.
 

LoudMusic

Member
Jul 21, 2020
738
803
Arkansas
Or you know, in the next 5+ years we’ll start to see 200kWh packs and 500kW+ Charging ability…

Yes basically. What was the towing capacity/range of petrol vehicles in their first 15 years of existence? And what was the "recharging" infrastructure like?

The improvements just within the Tesla Model S brand in the past ten years are astounding. And now there are more than twenty more companies working on the development of electric vehicles, batteries, and charging infrastructure.


I've never understood people with no ability observe progress. They're living their life in "what you see is what you get", apparently unable to dream about the future.
 
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Towing in any Tesla is completely impractical if you are going > 50 miles in either direction.
Hmmm...So my same day, 550 mile plus roundtrip to Boston and back, towing an empty utility trailer on the way up and a loaded trailer the way back was a dream...

Or that 600+ miles, 13 hour trip, through the Appalachian Mountains of NC and Virginia, pulling a 24' camper never happened 🤔
 
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I posted this in another towing thread, but I'll post it here since it's a good real world take on towing with a Model Y Performance.
Aero is the real killer, and you absolutely get crushed if you try and go over 55mph or so...
With my 6x12 enclosed (loaded), if I drive 55mph or less I would say 110-120 miles max, plan on only 90 miles to be safe though.

"
FYI, I have some recent experience towing a 6x12 enclosed trailer (extended height, 6ft 6in interior) with my Model Y performance.
I took the same ~110 mile trip multiple times moving.
1st trip Loaded (probably 3k lbs), I only made it about 95 miles before charging (16 miles indicated left), but I foolishly started with about 250 mile range, forgot to charge to max, also drove 60-65 avg until I noticed range was dropping very fast then slowed to 50-55.
I probably would have gotten 100 miles before shutoff...
2nd trip unloaded (opposite direction). Started at max charge, finished with about 35 miles indicated left, 55 max speed.
I probably would have gotten 120-125 miles before shutoff
3rd trip loaded again, Max charge, finished with 15 miles indicated left, 55 max speed.
4th trip, same results as 2nd trip...
5th trip, loaded but I went a different route (longer drive) since I went to superchargers that were about 70-80 miles each leg, easily made each supercharger with plenty of range left (don't remember the number since there was no concern about making it) driving max 55mph

My advice is plan on 1/3 range, don't go over 55 mph and watch the energy page constantly..."
 

glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,971
5,584
USA
Hmmm...So my same day, 550 mile plus roundtrip to Boston and back, towing an empty utility trailer on the way up and a loaded trailer the way back was a dream...

Or that 600+ miles, 13 hour trip, through the Appalachian Mountains of NC and Virginia, pulling a 24' camper never happened 🤔
Post pics of your wh/mi and total duration of trip.

Also not sure which 24’ camper you could safely tow with a Model Y. But if you say it, it must be true.
 
Post pics of your wh/mi and total duration of trip.

Also not sure which 24’ camper you could safely tow with a Model Y. But if you say it, it must be true.
Since we've been towing for over three years the novelty of taking pictures and logging my stats has worn off. I don't have "hard documentation" of those two trips. But here is a link to some stats from our first cross country trip with our camper.


The trailer is a 2018 Bowlus Road Chief. 24'. ~2300-2500lb unladen. Maximum axle capacity 3000-3500lb.

*Caveat. I have an MX, not an MY. My original post in this thread was just the relative change in power consumption while towing an open utility trailer. I'm sure the absolute numbers of the MY are different than the MX. But the concepts are the same.

**The numbers in the trip above were with a MX90D. As was the utility trailer trip.

***The 600+ mile trip was with a MX100D. By upgrading to the 100kWh pack I've been able to increase my max towing range by ~20% (200 miles +/-). The larger pack with the newer battery cell chemistry also allows for faster charging and fewer charging stops.

I also have a feeling that the newer pack and chemistry, even though slightly heavier than the original pack, has better efficiency than the original pack chemistry. This is based on the fact I've been able to travel at higher speeds while using the same wH/mi compared to the original pack. (Though I haven't been able to document in any systemic way yet.)

****The post above was in response to the statement, "Towing in any Tesla is completely impractical if you are going > 50 miles in either direction."
 

mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,986
1,526
Bay Area CA
Ha! I'm not surprised you brought up the old "5 minutes" gasser refuelling FUD. ;)

Notice how Flybuddy posted a pic charging with his trailer attached.

It's uncommon for people to drive >100 miles a day. Pulling a trailer is rarer than that.

Difference being, it takes 5 minutes to refuel at a gas station (which are everywhere) and you do not have to unhitch your tow vehicle at every stop.

it probably saves 45 minutes vs. using a supercharger.

Towing in any Tesla is completely impractical if you are going > 50 miles in either direction.
 
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glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,971
5,584
USA
Ha! I'm not surprised you brought up the old "5 minutes" gasser refuelling FUD. ;)

Notice how Flybuddy posted a pic charging with his trailer attached.

It's uncommon for people to drive >100 miles a day. Pulling a trailer is rarer than that.
It’s not FUD if it’s true. I can refuel my ICE tow vehicle in 5 minutes.

My model Y took 10-15 minutes to unhook + 30 minutes to charge. Pull-through supercharger are not common.
 
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glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,971
5,584
USA
Since we've been towing for over three years the novelty of taking pictures and logging my stats has worn off. I don't have "hard documentation" of those two trips. But here is a link to some stats from our first cross country trip with our camper.


The trailer is a 2018 Bowlus Road Chief. 24'. ~2300-2500lb unladen. Maximum axle capacity 3000-3500lb.

*Caveat. I have an MX, not an MY. My original post in this thread was just the relative change in power consumption while towing an open utility trailer. I'm sure the absolute numbers of the MY are different than the MX. But the concepts are the same.

**The numbers in the trip above were with a MX90D. As was the utility trailer trip.

***The 600+ mile trip was with a MX100D. By upgrading to the 100kWh pack I've been able to increase my max towing range by ~20% (200 miles +/-). The larger pack with the newer battery cell chemistry also allows for faster charging and fewer charging stops.

I also have a feeling that the newer pack and chemistry, even though slightly heavier than the original pack, has better efficiency than the original pack chemistry. This is based on the fact I've been able to travel at higher speeds while using the same wH/mi compared to the original pack. (Though I haven't been able to document in any systemic way yet.)

****The post above was in response to the statement, "Towing in any Tesla is completely impractical if you are going > 50 miles in either direction."
Lots of caveats in that post…

Your tolerance for adding significant amounts of time and inconvenience to your trips simply may be greater than mine.

Personally, I would not recommend Tesla as a tow vehicle to anyone who seriously tows (ie not bike racks).
 

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