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Towed with 20 MYP today = abysmal

bruce4000

Member
Jul 8, 2019
216
385
Seattle
People talk about towing weight a lot. As long as not exceeding tongue weight, is not a big deal as EVs are heavy, good weight distribution and have regen breaking in addition to physical brakes so good for long down grades. The issue is aerodynamics of what you are towing which generally sucks. Towing at 70 or 80 mph requires a lot more energy than at 55 mph. It’s just physics. Tesla needs to up there SC game to support towing outside metro areas especially once CT here.
 

mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,846
1,425
Bay Area CA
Flybuddy and many others didn't go to a pull-through supercharger.

The only reason why you're on TMC is to spread and amplify the same old tired, weak FUD.

No surprise that it hasn't been working. Tesla has been setting record quarters and it doesn't look like that'll change anytime soon.

It’s not FUD if it’s true. I can refuel my ICE tow vehicle in 5 minutes.

My model Y took 10-15 minutes to unhook + 30 minutes to charge. Pull-through supercharger are not common.

These are indisputable facts, fanboiiiiiiii.
 
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SSonnentag

Let’s go Brandon!
Apr 11, 2017
1,752
2,361
Arizona
it's the aerodynamics that sucks the juice. The large rock deflector in front and the tailgate, along with the width make this a more difficult tow.

That's the key right there, aerodynamics. Weight doesn't factor in all that much for steady state driving. The difference between a box trailer and a flatbed are night and day.
 

SSonnentag

Let’s go Brandon!
Apr 11, 2017
1,752
2,361
Arizona
My 1-ton Diesel Dually would get about 17 mph empty, but as soon as I attached my empty enclosed trailer, the mileage dropped to 12 mph. It's like towing a windbreak. Our Model X's range is cut in half when towing this same trailer. Basically, the more efficient/slippery your vehicle is, the worse hit towing will give you. If you already drive a brick (semi truck), a trailer won't make much difference.

53893_09058543_001_l.jpg
 
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jsight

Member
Apr 5, 2018
804
609
Charleston
My 1-ton Diesel Dually would get about 17 mph empty, but as soon as I attached my empty enclosed trailer, the mileage dropped to 12 mph. It's like towing a windbreak. Our Model X's range is cut in half when towing this same trailer. Basically, the more efficient/slippery your vehicle is, the worse hit towing will give you. If you already drive a brick (semi truck), a trailer won't make much difference.
That last detail is what makes me really curious about how the CT and F150 Lightning will perform when towing. They might actually beat some of our expectations.
 

avs007

Member
May 14, 2021
392
285
PacNW
My 1-ton Diesel Dually would get about 17 mph empty, but as soon as I attached my empty enclosed trailer, the mileage dropped to 12 mph. It's like towing a windbreak. Our Model X's range is cut in half when towing this same trailer. Basically, the more efficient/slippery your vehicle is, the worse hit towing will give you. If you already drive a brick (semi truck), a trailer won't make much difference.

53893_09058543_001_l.jpg
In that case, the trailer is just drafting the brick, lol
 

a2t2

Member
Jul 8, 2021
288
161
Atlanta
I think it’s great some are willing to travel back roads at low speeds, downhill in a vacuum at 70 degrees, ect .. while towing with a Tesla. Personally I’m not willing to do all that. I’m also not willing to risk whatever hell I’ll have to figure out how to get out of should the Tesla run dead while towing expensive cargo a long way from a charger. It would literally take days to resolve all that. Yes you could get a 75 kwh trailer - what’s that cost ?! The battery alone on that would be $20k never mind electronics. It just becomes too much hassle and too expensive.

I love the car for what it is - a city cruiser that would crush a hellcat demon at any stop light. But it’s not a utility vehicle. I hope we get there 1 day but for most ppl, where we are at now is ice vehicle is a must for towing even moderate distances. I just think that kinda sucks personally. I just had a 60 amp charger installed up at our farm which is 120 miles in the mtns. But I’ll have to use my grand Cherokee to pull the trailer full of dirt bikes as there’s no way a Tesla would make that drive safely. I’m sure as hell not leaving a trailer full or dirtbikes worth $30k on the side of the road while a tow truck pulls the car the rest of the way. There is no pt in taking a risk like that.

and I for one am astonished by the progress Tesla has made over the past 10 yrs but this rhetoric certain car companies are pushing as to how they will sell only EVs with 5 years, or how Cali will only allow sales of EVs within 10 years is ridiculous. I get that it’s not serious and intended as the stretch goal but I think some take that seriously and loose track of what’s actually possible in the near term
 
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acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,795
1,799
Richland, WA
I think it’s great some are willing to travel back roads at low speeds, downhill in a vacuum at 70 degrees, ect .. while towing with a Tesla. Personally I’m not willing to do all that. I’m also not willing to risk whatever hell I’ll have to figure out how to get out of should the Tesla run dead while towing expensive cargo a long way from a charger. It would literally take days to resolve all that. Yes you could get a 75 kwh trailer - what’s that cost ?! The battery alone on that would be $20k never mind electronics. It just becomes too much hassle and too expensive.

I love the car for what it is - a city cruiser that would crush a hellcat demon at any stop light. But it’s not a utility vehicle. I hope we get there 1 day but for most ppl, where we are at now is ice vehicle is a must for towing even moderate distances. I just think that kinda sucks personally. I just had a 60 amp charger installed up at our farm which is 120 miles in the mtns. But I’ll have to use my grand Cherokee to pull the trailer full of dirt bikes as there’s no way a Tesla would make that drive safely. I’m sure as hell not leaving a trailer full or dirtbikes worth $30k on the side of the road while a tow truck pulls the car the rest of the way. There is no pt in taking a risk like that.

and I for one am astonished by the progress Tesla has made over the past 10 yrs but this rhetoric certain car companies are pushing as to how they will sell only EVs with 5 years, or how Cali will only allow sales of EVs within 10 years is ridiculous. I get that it’s not serious and intended as the stretch goal but I think some take that seriously and loose track of what’s actually possible in the near term
I actually think we'll see decent towing in 5 to 10 years. Double the battery capacity on the Tesla (200kWh on Model X and 150kWh on Model Y) and you probably could go that 120 mile without issue and without having to charge. (Assuming 900 wh/mi, which is very high) Model X could even be at a full 1kWh per mile and still do like 170 miles with a little buffer left. I suspect we'll be there. The F150 is likely to have a pretty massive battery at 150kWh or above, give three to five more years and costs will likely come down to where Tesla is able to step up to that size with little price increase, of if there is an increase, it might be tied to a "tow package" that's an extra $5,000 or something.

That 75kWh camper trailer is ~$40k, which is a pretty penny, but for a first gen item that's not insane. I could see someone that doesn't mind some luxury over tent camping but not full on 20 foot camper life going for that. Actually, if you look at the price of a basic Model Y with towing package and the camper trailer, you're probably still under the price of a Model X, yet you could have 150kWh to use instead of 100kWh. Again, give it five years and we'll likely see huge increases in the ability.

I look at towing right now as being possible. Not enjoyable and not at the same usability as a gas car, but it's possible. If you need to tow stuff around town, you can. If you have a lake you hit that's an hour away (70 miles or so) and a boat, you can do it. In your case the distances are just outside of doable limits, but man, if they were within that range, you've got charging on your farm now! You could tow and never have to fill up, a cost savings for you, a time savings, a general convenience, etc. But yes, it doesn't work in your case right now. I'm still glad towing is offered rather than it not being offered, but it has a way to go.

I do think this works perfectly for some people that might have retired and just be cruising around the US all summer camping with a trailer. They likely don't care if they only do 200 miles in a day and have a lunch break in the middle of that. They've got no specific timeline or plans and just want to spend the summer seeing nature. That's a small market, but again, I'm glad the capability is there right now. I honestly think the largest issue will be remote sites and national parks. It would be wonderful if while Tesla was waiting for battery cost and technology to hit the sweet spot in towing they copied Rivian and announced a big DCFC build out or at least high power (48 amp 240 service) to all national parks and state parks and popular camp grounds around the US, especially those without power to them already. I think that'll be a huge draw for Rivian. If you've got a Model X that you stress about using for state parks because of the round trip battery drain, and you see a Rivian guy pull up and plug in for 8 hours while they're hiking before moving and setting up camp, you might seriously think about trading in or making the next vehicle a Rivian. You could recharge a 100kWh battery in 8 hours on a 240v 48 amp service, that could be 100 miles towing the 2800 pound camper, charge where you are, and 100 miles home, no supercharger needed in the middle.
 

FOOLSLFDRVNG

Member
Nov 3, 2020
224
200
Los Angeles
I have the teslifi app so I can see the usage on every trip. This one was 49 miles each way and elevation change of 574'. Avg speed was 45mph max was 73 mph. The trip was 2/3 back roads at 45 or so and 1/3 hwy where i tried to keep it at 70 which is the speed limit. The trailer is the home depot 5x8 which weighs about 500#. Power usage was 550 wh/mi going (uphill) and 542 wh/mi coming back



The dirt bikes weigh about 250# ea so we should of been right at 1,000 #. The trailer wheels werent locked up, I moved the whole trailer by hand to load it to the hitch and it rolled fine. So I dont know what the heck happened here, the bikes arent especially un-aerodynamic not like I was pulling a bill board sideways or anything. Just a hell of alot of power used !

I get the comparison to gas, yes. It kills gas mileage too. The difference is there are 160K gas stations in atlanta i can fill up in 5 minutes. Theres 10 supercharger locations in north atlanta, and nowhere near where I would of needed them.

I guess you could tow with this thing but I wont again its stressful. Kinda sucks, its supposed to be a SUV but there aint much U in that if you can only tow safely 100 miles. I cant imagine running out of charge while towing a trailer with expensive stuff in it. would take days to sort out tow trucks just to get back home.

Im really curious how ford will address this in the F150. That thing wont go 50 miles in the winter towing up hills ...
You saved me a tummy ache, thanks.
 

a2t2

Member
Jul 8, 2021
288
161
Atlanta
So they need to 2x the battery density without raising price or weight. Not sure how that’s possible in 5-10 yrs but maybe anything is possible. Tough road if market share remains so low.

Someone stated it earlier Many parks you can camp at all have rv hook ups so you can get either 30 amp 110
Or 50 amp 220 service the latter of which would be same as destination charger using the Tesla UMC and a adapter cord

actually the dirtbike spot I went to staring this thread is building out about 100 rv spots with electric .. so while I doubt we will get such a dramatic advancement in battery density in 5 years, maybe we will at least get the ability to charge at more remote spots at a rate between 10-30 miles an hour which is better than not
 
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CorneliusRox

Member
Mar 3, 2021
176
182
MN
Lots of caveats in that post…

Your tolerance for adding significant amounts of time and inconvenience to your trips simply may be greater than mine.

Personally, I would not recommend Tesla as a tow vehicle to anyone who seriously tows (ie not bike racks).
I second this post.
I love my EV for certain reasons, but it's not the best vehicle for every condition.

Cross country driving is still a pain and takes longer. My 14hr trip from MN to MI takes 17hrs in my EV.

Towing any real distance would be close to double the time. A standard truck can do a 500 mile trip with one fuel station stop and that takes 10min. An EV would take six stops at 40min each stop and that's assuming Super Chargers are exactly where you need them and they're not.
 
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GtiMart

Active Member
Nov 13, 2019
1,397
1,227
Quebec City, Canada
That's just called using the right vehicle for the task. It holds true even between ICE cars. You probably wouldn't pull a big load with a Prius. I had a WRX I loved a few years back, but when I had to drive from Quebec to Florida with 5 passengers, a bike and a full load I rented a Suburban for 2 weeks. I wouldn't want to make such a long drive with a Smart Car either :D
 
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LoudMusic

Member
Jul 21, 2020
636
708
Arkansas
That's just called using the right vehicle for the task. It holds true even between ICE cars. You probably wouldn't pull a big load with a Prius. I had a WRX I loved a few years back, but when I had to drive from Quebec to Florida with 5 passengers, a bike and a full load I rented a Suburban for 2 weeks. I wouldn't want to make such a long drive with a Smart Car either :D

Using the right tool for the job is very key. I wouldn't use a CR-V or Forester for towing a camper or trailer full of motorcycles. Why do people think it's so terrible that a Tesla isn't good for it either? And then they go ballistic about how terrible it is and how stupid people are for trying. Hey guess what, you had a bad experience because you made a bad uneducated decision.
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,418
14,431
West Vancouver, British Columbia
Maybe the performance Y is totally different then.
It is indeed. Your Y has significantly sub-optimal wheels for energy efficiency. The bigger wheels offer no advantages in any driving scenario.
I get the comparison to gas, yes. It kills gas mileage too. The difference is there are 160K gas stations in atlanta i can fill up in 5 minutes. Theres 10 supercharger locations in north atlanta, and nowhere near where I would of needed them.
Yes, this has been the case since EVs first became available. Not new news. But since I bought my first Tesla in 2013 there are now thousands more charging stations (of all types, not just Superchargers) in the US than there were back then. Of course it takes longer to charge an EV than it does to fill a gas tank. I’m sorry that apparently you did not realize that before you bought your Tesla.

By the way, I do not believe there are “160K gas stations in Atlanta”. Really, 160,000 gas stations?
I didnt see the wind resistance as being such an issue. even at 40 mph on the back roads the range was still falling off really bad. Its an open air trailer, mesh sides so the air can travel thru it, and 2 bikes facing fwd but they werent sticking out much past the roof line of the car
You are underestimating the aerodynamic drag produced by your trailer and the bikes. The air doesn’t just ”travel thru it”, it is markedly disrupted and therefore additional energy is needed to maintain speed. If you could somehow enclose the trailer and bikes in a properly shaped shell your energy usage would fall dramatically. Obviously you cannot do that.

I’ve been towing a 2,300 lb (fully loaded) Safari Condo Alto trailer for 3 1/2 years and thousands of miles. Currently my 2017 X has a max charge of 260-270 miles. At 55mph on a level, dry road I can tow for 120-140 miles before needing to charge. My X is less energy efficient than your Y.

It’s what you are towing that is drastically reducing your range. And your wheels.
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,418
14,431
West Vancouver, British Columbia
See this post at Model Y Towing - Experiences Post here

Model Y owner towing an RV trailer larger than your motorcycle trailer, at 60mph getting about 175 miles of range.
The MY LR towed the 16ft scamp very well from the factory in Minn back home to Texas. We were able to get 170 -180 mi per charge but noramally stopped more frequently. I was keeping the speed at 60. So basically was hitting every super charger sort of do that anyway, just with the trailer I charge to 90 ~ 95 instead of the 75 ~80 w/o a trailer, and would come in around 10~15 %. Anyway it works great the free charge from the RV campground. Scamp is a fantastic little travel trailer and pretty aerodynamic. It isnt wider than the car, anyway if someone is looking for a travel trailer for the Y...I would recommend the Scamp.

Cheers
 

mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,846
1,425
Bay Area CA
All your inspid FUD and whining and Tesla will still sell everything they make.

You just keep on failing. You've already demonstrated that you're really, really good at it. ;)

Even this guy put his investors' money where his mouth was and eventually gave up. :p There's so much conviction from you/TESLAQ types that Tesla will fail only to give up when Tesla's stock is so high.


Stay in looney-land for as long as you can, because you're not going to like reality.

Enjoy life in your echo chamber, fanboiiiii.

You must fit in great in California.
 
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glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,816
5,358
USA
All your inspid FUD and whining and Tesla will still sell everything they make.

You just keep on failing. You've already demonstrated that you're really, really good at it. ;)

Even this guy put his investors' money where his mouth was and eventually gave up. :p There's so much conviction from you/TESLAQ types that Tesla will fail only to give up when Tesla's stock is so high.


Stay in looney-land for as long as you can, because you're not going to like reality.
Once again, it’s not FUD if it’s true.

Come to think of it, I don’t think you understand what FUD means. Saying it takes 5 minutes to fill a gas tank and 30 minutes to, not even fully, charge a Tesla is a factual statement.

Please explain to the class where the FUD is there.
 
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a2t2

Member
Jul 8, 2021
288
161
Atlanta
I understood clearly how long it takes to charge vs how long it takes to fill up, Im aware its not as convenient. However I was not aware that a Model Y Performance with an EPA range of 305 miles actually is 261 miles and when towing a small trailer with a light load its actually 100 miles in summer and 50 miles in winter. I was unaware of that, i will admit. Mostly because theres alot of misinformation regarding model Y and towing, and apparently you guys are towing down hill at 12 mph on back roads and telling us all how great these vehicle are at towing. They are not suitable tow vehicles for anything but local runs. Yes you can get by towing if you are extremely careful but there are vastly better vehicles to tow with.


Lets just be honest about where these EVs are. They are very nice cars for around town. They are not moderate distance haulers as some try to claim.

And sorry, 160K gas stations in US, not Atlanta.
 
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