Towing an Alto F1743 trailer with a Model X

[ecarfan]

Already reported there. Unfortunately for me I do not see me doing this long distance as the effective range drops from 300 to 160 miles and at most chargers you need to unhitch to reach the charge cable. I have even asked Tesla if one could buy an extension cable as it would be great for towing and if a charger were iced.

Yes, range decreases significantly when towing. I rarely find that to be a problem, however, I plan my towing trips carefully using the EV-TO app, which is very good at accurately estimating energy usage while towing. And there are so many Superchargers now, and of course other places to charge, that I can make plenty of towing trips and enjoy my trailer.

At many Superchargers I do have to unhitch to charge. I do not find that to be a big deal. It takes me no more than two minutes to unhitch and maybe 3-4 minutes to hitch up. Not significant.

An “extension cable” from Tesla for Supercharging is not going to happen. To many potential issues.

 

[ecarfan]

Have you ever gone from Rocklin ca. to Truckee Ca. ?? If so what where the #s for towing your trailer ...

Mark here are my energy usage numbers for a trip I made today, including the answer to your question.

467Wh/mi San Mateo to Fairfield Supercharger, 40 to 55mph, 66F

520Wh/mi Fairfield to Rocklin Supercharger, 55mph, 75F

736Wh/mi Rocklin to Truckee Supercharger (Brockaway Rd), 53-55mph, 78F, started with 270 miles of range and finished with 77 miles, peak charge rate 144kW

 

[markcobb]

Mark here are my energy usage numbers for a trip I made today, including the answer to your question.

467Wh/mi San Mateo to Fairfield Supercharger, 40 to 55mph, 66F

520Wh/mi Fairfield to Rocklin Supercharger, 55mph, 75F

736Wh/mi Rocklin to Truckee Supercharger (Brockaway Rd), 53-55mph, 78F, started with 270 miles of range and finished with 77 miles, peak charge rate 144kW

Thank You Sir, Good info. That's what I needed...

 

[ecarfan]

736Wh/mi Rocklin to Truckee Supercharger (Brockaway Rd), 53-55mph, 78F, started with 270 miles of range and finished with 77 miles, peak charge rate 144kW

I just finished driving approximately that route but in the opposite direction, which of course is primarily downhill, My Wh/mi was 276. I drove from Boca Springs Campground (in Tahoe National Forest at 5,800 ft, 11 miles northeast of Truckee) to the Rocklin Supercharger. So from the campground I had to gain 1,439 ft to Donner Summit (at 7,239 ft) and then drop down to Roseville at 164 ft. Hence the very low Wh/mi number of 276.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Any trailer with flat sides is going to have lots of aerodynamic drag.

 

[ecarfan]

Any trailer with flat sides is going to have lots of aerodynamic drag.

Not sure what post you are responding to, but the key to aerodynamic trailer design is highly radiused corners (rounded, not right angle) and overall shape (long and tapered is better than short and square). My trailer certainly is not optimized for low drag, but nevertheless I am finding long trips very doable now that the Supercharger network has become so extensive (I’ve towed all over California as well as to New Mexico).

On my recent towing trip to Boca Spring Campground near Truckee it was quite a contrast to use 736Wh/mi from Rocklin to Truckee and 276Wh/mi from Truckee to Rocklin. From my home in San Mateo I had to Supercharge three times (Fairfield, Rocklin, Truckee) to get to the campground, but only Supercharged two times (Truckee, Fairfield) to get home, a 217 mile trip.

It was very handy having the Truckee Supercharger on Brockway available just 12 miles from the campground (which of course had no electricity available). Went hiking on the Tahoe Rim Trail and then charged at Brockway before returning to the campground. More about my trip https://electrictravels.blog/2019/06/20/boca-springs-campground-and-the-tahoe-rim-trail/

 

[deemo]

I don’t know the VA law but in CA any trailer over 1,500 lbs has to have its own brakes, and if they are electric than you need to control them from the tow vehicle. If you search this forum for “brake controller” you will find a number of threads about them including this very informative thread which provides valuable advice that I used in installing my Tekonsha brake controller:
Installing a Tekonsha Prodigy P2 Brake Controller in a Model X

Just to clarify, not all trailers over 1500 lbs have to have brakes in CA - all trailers with a GVW of 3,000 lbs. or more and coach or camp trailer with a GVW of 1,500 lbs. or more must be equipped with brakes on at least 2 wheels. I have 6x14 utility trailer rated at 2990 lbs. that has no brakes that I bought in CA last year.

 

[ecarfan]

@deemo thanks for clarifying, I should have been more specific. I based my statement about travel trailers (since that is what we are discussing in this thread) on this page on the California DMV website
Towing Your Trailer Safely

QUOTE: “In California, brakes are required on any trailer coach or camp trailer having a gross weight of 1500 lbs. or more.“

 

[AltoGrayhound]

@ecarfan Hello it is me @AltoGrayhound owner of the new Alto A2124. After the aerodynamic test I did in 2018 with the F1743 (see picture) I talked with Daniel Nadeau owner of Safari Condo and I worked with them on this new caravan. I did test comparison on the road with F1743 and F2114 and the new model is more efficient. I get around 500wh/mi. I compared with my experience of 15,000km with the F1743 and it keeps the road. I will see more this summer and specialy next winter when we ride 3 months in USA. Will keep you posted. should have picture of inside this week. I am working on spec with Safari Condo. More space and options with less energy!!

 

[ecarfan]

Congrats to @AltoGrayhound on his new Alto! There is a thread about his trailer at
Model X towing a Safari Condo A-2124 trailer

 

[ecarfan]

You are using the Weigh Safe ball mount if I’m not mistaking. Are you happy with it? Would you recommend it? Does the scale work fairly well? Thanks for the info.

If you go to https://electrictravels.blog/2018/09/16/towing-with-a-tesla/ and scroll down you will see this text (and some photos):
—————————————-
I opted to purchase the Weigh Safe hitch ball because it has a built in scale that shows the tongue weight. The scale is not as easy to read as it could be; if the gauge needle was just a few millimeters longer it would touch the scale markers. This photo shows an indicated weight of almost 300 lbs when hitched up to my Alto trailer that was loaded up for a trip. I estimated the trailer weighed about 2,300 lbs.

The Weigh Safe is certainly more costly than a standard hitch ball, but having the correct tongue weight is a critical safety parameter when towing; it should be between 10% to 15% of the total (loaded) trailer weight. If the tongue weight is too low the trailer can sway uncontrollably; too high a weight and the tow vehicle’s handling can be compromised.

Typically people use a portable scale to measure their tongue weight. But the weight can change depending how the trailer is loaded and how full the various water tanks are (the Alto freshwater tank is behind the axel while the grey and black water tanks are ahead of the axel). Carrying a separate scale is inconvenient and you may be tempted to skip checking the tongue weight before a trip. Having a scale built into the hitch ball means you can measure your tongue weight at any time; very convenient!

The Bosal hitch that is part of the Model X towing package option specifies that the base of the hitch ball cannot be more than 0.75” above the top inner surface of the hitch receiver. When using the Weigh Safe hitch ball that means mounting it as shown above, in what most people would consider the “upside down” position. In that position the ball is within the required hitch specifications, but the part sticking down can scrape when going in or out of sloped driveways, for example. I purchased the 4” version of the Weigh Safe before I took delivery of the trailer. I was unsure of whether it would be best positioned “up” or “down”. It turned out that “down” was required. For the Alto trailer, that is the version I would recommend.

Positioning the Weigh Safe in that manner means it can scrape when going in and out of driveways, for example, so I had it cut down.
————————————————-

 

[steilkurve]

If you go to Towing with a Tesla and scroll down you will see this text (and some photos):
—————————————-
I opted to purchase the Weigh Safe hitch ball because it has a built in scale that shows the tongue weight. The scale is not as easy to read as it could be; if the gauge needle was just a few millimeters longer it would touch the scale markers. This photo shows an indicated weight of almost 300 lbs when hitched up to my Alto trailer that was loaded up for a trip. I estimated the trailer weighed about 2,300 lbs.

The Weigh Safe is certainly more costly than a standard hitch ball, but having the correct tongue weight is a critical safety parameter when towing; it should be between 10% to 15% of the total (loaded) trailer weight. If the tongue weight is too low the trailer can sway uncontrollably; too high a weight and the tow vehicle’s handling can be compromised.

Typically people use a portable scale to measure their tongue weight. But the weight can change depending how the trailer is loaded and how full the various water tanks are (the Alto freshwater tank is behind the axel while the grey and black water tanks are ahead of the axel). Carrying a separate scale is inconvenient and you may be tempted to skip checking the tongue weight before a trip. Having a scale built into the hitch ball means you can measure your tongue weight at any time; very convenient!

The Bosal hitch that is part of the Model X towing package option specifies that the base of the hitch ball cannot be more than 0.75” above the top inner surface of the hitch receiver. When using the Weigh Safe hitch ball that means mounting it as shown above, in what most people would consider the “upside down” position. In that position the ball is within the required hitch specifications, but the part sticking down can scrape when going in or out of sloped driveways, for example. I purchased the 4” version of the Weigh Safe before I took delivery of the trailer. I was unsure of whether it would be best positioned “up” or “down”. It turned out that “down” was required. For the Alto trailer, that is the version I would recommend.

Positioning the Weigh Safe in that manner means it can scrape when going in and out of driveways, for example, so I had it cut down.
————————————————-

Thanks. That's extremely helpful. Can you elaborate on why the up position didn't work? Is it because it got in the way of the trailer's movement? Asking because the scraping would worry me and putting it up seemed like the right solution.

 

[ecarfan]

Thanks. That's extremely helpful. Can you elaborate on why the up position didn't work? Is it because it got in the way of the trailer's movement? Asking because the scraping would worry me and putting it up seemed like the right solution.

The Bosal hitch that is part of the Model X towing package option specifies that the base of the hitch ball cannot be more than 0.75” above the top inner surface of the hitch receiver. When using the Weigh Safe hitch ball that means mounting it ”pointing down” (as shown in the photos I posted at Towing with a Tesla ) because otherwise the ball is too high above the hitch receiver; it’s out of specification.

I can see how that can be hard to understand without understanding how the two parts of the Weigh Safe fit together. The Weigh Safe hitch ball part is a separate piece from the L-shaped “drawbar” piece (the part that fits into the Bosal hitch receiver on the car). It can be attached to the Weigh Safe drawbar piece from either direction: with it pointing up or down (towards the road). Once attached you can position it at various points along the drawbar where their are holes.

When the drawbar is inserted into the Bosal hitch receiver and pointing down, with the hitch ball positioned to fit into the top hole, the top of the ball is almost exactly 0.75” above the top inner surface of the hitch receiver, so it is within specification. If you position the drawbar pointing “up” the hitch ball will be positioned much too high, and you will be placing stresses on the Bosal hitch that it is not designed for.

Positioning the shortest available drawbar (the 4” version) pointing down when connected to a Model X Bosal hitch did result in the drawbar scraping in some situations unless I went very slowly across the driveway/street connection or over a speed bump. So I had it cut down about 1.5” and no I have no worries.

Hope that makes sense. Take a look at the photo at Labor Day Sale - 10% Off Weigh Safe to see how the hitch ball can be positioned in various holes in the drawbar. Unfortunately there are no photos on that page showing the hitch ball piece separate from the draw bar, though at the bottom there is a photo of the draw bar without the hitch ball piece attached.

 

[steilkurve]

The Bosal hitch that is part of the Model X towing package option specifies that the base of the hitch ball cannot be more than 0.75” above the top inner surface of the hitch receiver. When using the Weigh Safe hitch ball that means mounting it ”pointing down” (as shown in the photos I posted at Towing with a Tesla ) because otherwise the ball is too high above the hitch receiver; it’s out of specification.

I can see how that can be hard to understand without understanding how the two parts of the Weigh Safe fit together. The Weigh Safe hitch ball part is a separate piece from the L-shaped “drawbar” piece (the part that fits into the Bosal hitch receiver on the car). It can be attached to the Weigh Safe drawbar piece from either direction: with it pointing up or down (towards the road). Once attached you can position it at various points along the drawbar where their are holes.

When the drawbar is inserted into the Bosal hitch receiver and pointing down, with the hitch ball positioned to fit into the top hole, the top of the ball is almost exactly 0.75” above the top inner surface of the hitch receiver, so it is within specification. If you position the drawbar pointing “up” the hitch ball will be positioned much too high, and you will be placing stresses on the Bosal hitch that it is not designed for.

Positioning the shortest available drawbar (the 4” version) pointing down when connected to a Model X Bosal hitch did result in the drawbar scraping in some situations unless I went very slowly across the driveway/street connection or over a speed bump. So I had it cut down about 1.5” and no I have no worries.

Hope that makes sense. Take a look at the photo at Labor Day Sale - 10% Off Weigh Safe to see how the hitch ball can be positioned in various holes in the drawbar. Unfortunately there are no photos on that page showing the hitch ball piece separate from the draw bar, though at the bottom there is a photo of the draw bar without the hitch ball piece attached.

Make sense. I had assumed that in either position, it was possible to position the hitch ball perfectly level with the draw bar.

And you cut the Weigh Safe yourself with a simple Metal Saw?

Also, did you ever consider this? Haul Gauge?

https://www.amazon.com/HAUL-GAUGE-Connector-Measures-Combined/dp/B07DQ44JFB

 

[DonD]

When the drawbar is inserted into the Bosal hitch receiver and pointing down, with the hitch ball positioned to fit into the top hole, the top of the ball is almost exactly 0.75” above the top inner surface of the hitch receiver, so it is within specification. If you position the drawbar pointing “up” the hitch ball will be positioned much too high, and you will be placing stresses on the Bosal hitch that it is not designed for.

Positioning the shortest available drawbar (the 4” version) pointing down when connected to a Model X Bosal hitch did result in the drawbar scraping in some situations unless I went very slowly across the driveway/street connection or over a speed bump. So I had it cut down about 1.5” and no I have no worries.

Good explanation regarding the specification regarding the "rise" of the ball. However, when I checked published dimensions for the Weigh Safe WS4-2 it appears the distance from the ball mount to the closest locking bolt hole is 8.42 inches. Tesla specifies a maximum of 8.0 inches for the ball mount. Were you able to resolve this, or did you choose to not be overly concerned with 0.42 inch difference?

 

[ecarfan]

you cut the Weigh Safe yourself with a simple Metal Saw?

I had a guy I know with a high quality band saw cut it. You won’t be able to cut it with a hand saw.

did you ever consider this? Haul Gauge?

Never heard of that. I see you started a thread about it. Will reply there. Thanks.

 

[ecarfan]

Good explanation regarding the specification regarding the "rise" of the ball. However, when I checked published dimensions for the Weigh Safe WS4-2 it appears the distance from the ball mount to the closest locking bolt hole is 8.42 inches. Tesla specifies a maximum of 8.0 inches for the ball mount. Were you able to resolve this, or did you choose to not be overly concerned with 0.42 inch difference?

Fair point. I did not modify my Weigh Safe hitch in that regard. To do so, a new hole would have to be drilled close to the single factory hole. Will consider that for a future modification, thanks!

 

[ohmman]

Moderator note: 9 posts moved to their own thread at Alto A2124 Hitch Concerns.

 

[ecarfan]

On a two week trip doing lots of towing in rain. It sure does increase energy usage. Saw over 700Wh/mi in heavy rain at 50mph, temps were in the 50’s on 101 south of Paso Robles to LA. Fortunately the Superchargers are closely spaced, and so far on this trip have not had to wait for a stall even though it is the busy travel season.

Now in Joshua Tree National Park at Indian Cove Campground close to the Twentynine Palms Supercharger. Very handy having charging so close in this campground with no hookups! 32F and snowing. 3,300 ft elevation.

 

[ecarfan]

In this situation I wish I had real snow tires but I don’t normally snow camp; this is unusual for me. The snow covering was just a few inches driving into the campsite, and it was soft because temps were just above freezing, so my OEM tires and the X traction control were sufficient to handle the driving and maneuvering into the camp site.