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Toyota FCV: Japan sales in April 2015, $69,000, US to follow

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The car is now officially announced and introduced as rumored: Mirai.

Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan Now Named (w/video)

I guess Mirai could become the Toyota sub-brand for all their FCEVs, much like Prius for hybrids.

Meanwhile, other former FC proponents such as Honda, Daimler and GM are sitting on the sidelines (Honda just postponed their car launch to 2016: Honda delays hydrogen fuel cell sedan, debuts new concept - Autoblog ) and let Toyota spend a lot of money.

Building that infrastructure will take a long time and cost a lot, Toyota will probably eat up most losses as a first-mover. I can only see hydrogen cars working in some areas with heavy subsidies (Japan...) or in closed, smaller regions (Iceland...) for now.

Long-term, who knows. A lot depends on better ways to create and store hydrogen locally (and thus bring down station costs), research is ongoing:

Honda making hydrogen from solar power in UK
 
It should be noted that this car will be available in non-CA markets. I wonder why they only went with a 300 mile range? If these had a 500 mile, or even 1000 mile range, it takes SO much pressure off of the refueling infrastructure. I assume, could be wrong, that adding fuel capacity adds very little cost per unit. They could also rub it in the faces of BEVs if they had that kind of range.
 
I looked it up...the literal English translation of "Mirai" is "lead balloon"...:wink:


The car is now officially announced and introduced as rumored: Mirai.

Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan Now Named (w/video)

I guess Mirai could become the Toyota sub-brand for all their FCEVs, much like Prius for hybrids.

Meanwhile, other former FC proponents such as Honda, Daimler and GM are sitting on the sidelines (Honda just postponed their car launch to 2016: Honda delays hydrogen fuel cell sedan, debuts new concept - Autoblog ) and let Toyota spend a lot of money.

Building that infrastructure will take a long time and cost a lot, Toyota will probably eat up most losses as a first-mover. I can only see hydrogen cars working in some areas with heavy subsidies (Japan...) or in closed, smaller regions (Iceland...) for now.

Long-term, who knows. A lot depends on better ways to create and store hydrogen locally (and thus bring down station costs), research is ongoing:

Honda making hydrogen from solar power in UK
 
Long-term, who knows. A lot depends on better ways to create and store hydrogen locally (and thus bring down station costs), research is ongoing:

Honda making hydrogen from solar power in UK

Unfortunately, turning electricity into H2 and then back in a fuel cell wastes 75% of the energy. They cycle loss in batteries is only about 15%. Hydrogen just doesn't make any sense.
 
It should be noted that this car will be available in non-CA markets. I wonder why they only went with a 300 mile range? If these had a 500 mile, or even 1000 mile range, it takes SO much pressure off of the refueling infrastructure. I assume, could be wrong, that adding fuel capacity adds very little cost per unit. They could also rub it in the faces of BEVs if they had that kind of range.

1) Hydrogen tanks: more expensive, more space, more weight
2) ? Refueling time: if hydrogen takes longer to fill than gasoline, you really don't want people to perceive that difference.
 
Unfortunately, turning electricity into H2 and then back in a fuel cell wastes 75% of the energy. They cycle loss in batteries is only about 15%. Hydrogen just doesn't make any sense.

Exactly ... if one installs sufficient solar power to generate H2 for one car (for example), then that same solar array will power four BEVs. It makes so much more sense to pour R&D into battery tech that is lower weight, greater charge density, faster charging rates and able to withstand more recharge cycles without degradation. I realize this is already ongoing, but this FCV tech is just a distraction.
 
Unfortunately, turning electricity into H2 and then back in a fuel cell wastes 75% of the energy. They cycle loss in batteries is only about 15%. Hydrogen just doesn't make any sense.

As others pointed out, gas station networks and related sectors may want to produce and distribute hydrogen in the future to leverage/protect their existing footprint, so there's an economic interest.

Same for car makers looking for subsidies and hedging themselves depending on future customer demand for PHEVs vs EVs vs FCEVs.

I see FCEVs as a potential addition in some regions (Japan, Iceland...) or maybe in vertical use (taxis, delivery services, forklifts, trucks...) where cars can return to a base/refueling station regularly.
 
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Back in June Toyota priced the Mirai at 7M Yen or roughly $69k.


Today 7M Yen is about $60k and Toyota is giving the Mirai a US MSRP of $57,500 and you can actually buy it.

Lease will match Hyundai Tuscon FCEV. $3k down $499/month with free H2 for three years.

700 worldwide units through 2016 and they are hoping for a grand total 3k sales by the end of 2017.

They are hoping by 2017 to have CA and the NYC-Boston corridor covered with H2 Stations.

But you won't be able to drive from CA to NY in 2017.


2016 Toyota Mirai Priced At $57,500, With $499 Monthly Lease

I give Toyota props for actually selling the car unlike Hyundai and taking in the shorts.
 
I admire the technology behind FCVs. Just as I admire steam locomotives, weapons technology and the workings of oppressed societies, that doesn't mean I think anything positive about these.

It's a bit difficult to be amazed by a technology, while you don't support the purpose or function of that product.

The AK47 is an amazing piece of mechanical engineering, yet I don't like the purpose it is built for.

With fuel cell technology, it's great for use in satellites and for remote critical installations - say a cell phone tower on a distant mountain top. But for broad public transportation needs, it's downright silly and a waste of time and money.

I am looking forward to see FCVs added to museums, next to other outdated technology like said steam locomotives, and soon - ICE cars as well. And yes, I would even like to see one up close. I don't need to try one, as I expect it to work like any other electric car with a range extender - for that is what it basically is. They could just extract the fuel cell, put it on display somewhere as a science experiment demonstration.
 
With fuel cell technology, it's great for use in satellites and for remote critical installations - say a cell phone tower on a distant mountain top. But for broad public transportation needs, it's downright silly and a waste of time and money.

I am looking forward to see FCVs added to museums, next to other outdated technology like said steam locomotives, and soon - ICE cars as well. And yes, I would even like to see one up close. I don't need to try one, as I expect it to work like any other electric car with a range extender - for that is what it basically is. They could just extract the fuel cell, put it on display somewhere as a science experiment demonstration.

At this point FCVs aren't yet silly. FCV will only be silly with cheap batteries. It's actually not just that cheap batteries would mean much cheaper BEVs, it's because cheap batteries would mean cheap integration of renewables. If you can both go crazy with PV and move transportation of people and light goods to BEV, you have a real possibility of using much easier biofuels and synthetic fuels to handle the remaining transportation.
 
At this point FCVs aren't yet silly. FCV will only be silly with cheap batteries. It's actually not just that cheap batteries would mean much cheaper BEVs, it's because cheap batteries would mean cheap integration of renewables. If you can both go crazy with PV and move transportation of people and light goods to BEV, you have a real possibility of using much easier biofuels and synthetic fuels to handle the remaining transportation.

Yes, agreed - it will be a while before heavy machinery, and aircraft, can be moved to electric power. I cannot wait to fly a photon-powered airliner! Imagine just driving it with electric motors in the wheels, all the way to take-off position, then fire up the neutron-blasters when cleared for take-off. Oh, the deafening silence - people living around the airport will complain about lack of aircraft noise!