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Toyota 'Mirai' Fuel Cell Sedan

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by ivog, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. ivog

    ivog Member

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  2. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    It's being discussed in a couple other threads...

    Basically Toyota has announced a slow, expensive, inefficient, and dangerous vehicle with no fueling infrastructure and are calling it the "future"

    EVs are the real future, I don't expect the public to be willing to buy too many fool cells
     
  3. Electric700

    Electric700 Member

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    I think the Toyota Mirai is a waste of R & D money. Fuel cell-based cars are not energy efficient, and you can't charge them directly from renewable sources like solar and wind systems.

    In addition, Toyota and at least one other company are planning to use taxpayer dollars to build new hydrogen fueling stations in the northeast U.S., but I would much rather see those funds used for the construction of high-power EV charging stations like this Sun Country 100 Amp charger: EV Chargers - Item Search | Sun Country Highway.
     
  4. William13

    William13 Member

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    1850 kg and 114 kW
    3 minute refuel with stations to be built in fy2016
    Over 600 km range by some Japanese standard
    400 will be built
    Fins on the rear


    Snoozer
     
  5. ivog

    ivog Member

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    I'm really interested in the reason why Toyoto pursues this idea. Are they really that stupid or is there some kind of big idea behind all of this which everyone fails to understand, like H20 becoming a good way for energy storage in a (future) world where energy is abundant and storage technology has become alot cheaper through technology improvements?
     
  6. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    I have a question. If the exhaust is water, what happens if all cars were FCV? Would the roads always be wet? No one would ever have a clean car because of the wet roads. Also, what about in freezing temperatures? Would the roads be icy even if it didn't rain or snow?

    Also, what's the advantage to FCV, other than saving the environment? Not to belittle the importance of saving the environment, but I don't think the technology will sell just on that notion.
     
  7. ivog

    ivog Member

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    If the water exaust would be a problem then it could simply be stored somewhere and maybe while they're at it they can make a watertap somewhere in the cabin so you can get rid of the water by drinking it :)

    There's still an electric motor used so you get all the advantages of an electric motor although the battery pack is alot smaller and can therefore provide less power to the electric motor I presume.
     
  8. wraithnot

    wraithnot Model S VIN #5785

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    "Mirai will be equipped with special H2O button to release the water – just in case you are thirsty or would like to show your friends how green the car is (sort of)."

    Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Sedan Priced At $57,500 - Specs, Videos
     
  9. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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  10. hileyms

    hileyms Member

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    I saw this comment a couple of days ago:-

    Former European Parliament president Pat Cox is estimating Toyota will lose between €50,000 and €100,000 for each fuel cell vehicle they will sell.
     
  11. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Is that anti competitive under European law?
     
  12. GSP

    GSP Member

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    LOL! Maybe they could be sued for violating U.S. "anti-dumping" laws, which are very well named for this car. :biggrin:

    GSP
     
  13. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    i thought it was an ICE that burned hydrogen. So basically, it's an electric car that you can't charge at home. I'm still not seeing the advantage.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. JFK

    JFK Member

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    How much is hydrogen fuel?

    You can't refuel this at home for free from the sun.
     
  15. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    But this would make your trip less efficient from a time standpoint...you'd have more "pit stops", or need an on-board toidy! :wink:
     
  16. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    That's actually a harder question to answer than you'd imagine (see article). Most estimates put it around $4-5/gallon equivalent.

    The real reason automakers are giving away free hydrogen - Autoblog

    Also, the ease of fueling a hydrogen vehicle is way over simplified in the reading. It is not as easy as a gas (or electric) car and seems to take quite a bit more than 3 minutes from the case I observed. Also, there is a significant latent period necessary in the current models before the same pump can fuel another vehicle. Currently not an issue as there are so few around using the rare hydrogen station, but if/when these become a thing, people will have to wait during peak times just to be able to start fueling.

    The real reason automakers are giving away free hydrogen - Autoblog
     
  17. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

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    If i drew something like that on paper it would have been tossed in the trash.


    The fact that that design got ok'd by someone, and went into production is absolutely hilarious. That is one DAMN ugly car. Yuck.
     
  18. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    That is the goal H2 companies have right now. 1 KG of H2 equals 2 gallons of gasoline. Right now, the price is a bit over $12 per KG.

    But as your referenced article states they have no way to accurately measure dispensed H2, it is plus or minus 20%.

    So H2 fuel is being included in leases where Toyota and other OEMs are charged an average over hundred(s) of vehicles, which should average to good approximate.
     
  19. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    They are metering the H2 here, and it costs $13.5/kg. That makes it a bit more expensive than diesel and about the same as gasoline, per km. In the US you have a lot cheaper diesel/gasoline, so hydrogen would be way more expensive than all other options.

    ($13.5/kg is of course not the real cost. The operating expenses of the stations are subsidized by about 90%, so to break even it should have cost more like $135/kg. This is likely to improve when you have more than a couple of dozen FCVs, though.)
     

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