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Toyota Says: electric cars not practical

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by tonybelding, May 21, 2007.

  1. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    The article is from msnbc:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18615741/

    The really eye-opening quote is on the second page, where we find this:

    Takimoto said Toyota had been approached by both parties as well as many other battery makers, but dismissed their products as "unusable" due to their low energy density.

    "Our battery is still superior," he said. He added that plug-in hybrids, which can be recharged through an electric socket, were still years away from practical application and pure electric vehicles even further out because even with a trunk full of rechargeable batteries, they would have a cruising range of just 60 km (37 miles).

    Why is it that Toyota, with their "superior" batteries, can only make an electric car go 37 miles, while Tesla are getting over 200 miles out of theirs?  And isn't 37 miles range often achieved even by homebrew conversions of gasoline cars using DC motors and common lead-acid batteries?
     
  2. DDB

    DDB Member

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    Interesting that Toyota is taking the same stance as GM when it comes to plug-ins and EV range. Is this a conspiracy or is it the truth?
     
  3. RokketRide

    RokketRide New Member

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    Well its certainly Toyota's truth. Gotta protect the bottom line by propping up your current product.
     
  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    As it's been said, If electrics are a better car, then everything else they are selling you is wrong.
     
  5. Tesla2Go

    Tesla2Go Member

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    Would be interesting to see the numbers on how much a car company makes by selling the car, and how much they make selling parts for that car.....Wonder what the ratio is? So for them, ofcourse electric cars are at least 10 years away, they can't sell you 2000 different parts just to keep it running.
     
  6. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    I think in the movie WKtEC they mention that 40% of the total profit from a car's life cycle comes from parts.

    Again, I think that is what was said.

    --Update--

    Ok, I watched the film again last night* and that 40% number is not in there so I don't know where that came from. The film does mention the brake biz alone is more than a billion dollar industry and the mechanic says thanks to regen braking he never serviced brakes on an EV1.

    *I'm off to the ARB meeting tomorrow so I thought it would be good to watch the last time they met in April 2003. The shenanigans they pulled at that meeting are reprehensible! AT this point they are aleady placing full EVs low on the list.
     
  7. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Talked to Chris the Director. The 40% profit is what the dealer makes yearly off parts.
     
  8. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Toyota Builds Thicket of Patents Around Hybrid To Block Competitors


    Toyota Builds Thicket of Patents Around Hybrid To Block Competitors - WSJ.com

     
  9. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    This one is interesting. The New York Times questions wheather Toyota is missing the "EV bus". Kind of a flop to the other side of view
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/business/energy-environment/20electric.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1250751610-0CwbsQk9GCQD2zNHAkyhww

     
  10. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Uhh - I guess they haven't read anything about the Model S...
     
  11. BBHighway

    BBHighway Member

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    Yes, that RAV4EV was a tiny little thing, seating only 5 passengers and a good amount of cargo. Same for that Ranger EV.
     
  12. Serge

    Serge Member

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    I find the closing paragraphs particularly ominous.
    For their sake, I hope the current public stance is due to desire to milk the Prius investment to a maximum.
    I really hope they have something secret in the works.
     
  13. Palpatine

    Palpatine Banned

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    That is what I love about Tesla. They get it. The electric vehicle does not have to be small and slow. It can be a Sports car, it can be a high end luxury car.

    All of these new EVs, that the big auto companies are developing, seem to be small and modest. It fits too much of the stereotype of what an EV is "supposed" to be.

    Tesla is going to own the high end market for the first few years of the EV revolution.
     
  14. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    I suspect they do...
     
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    Then today Toyota has an announcement that they've achieved a 10-fold improvement in Li battery technology:
    Toyota Said to Achieve 10-Fold Lithium-ion Battery Breakthrough - AllCarsElectric.com

    Toyota may be slow to actually adopt lithium-ion batteries into its cars, but it appears the company may be ahead of the pack when it come to basic scientific development.

    A report out of the Nikkei in Japan states that Toyota achieved the ability to fabricate single crystals of cobalt-oxide for use in lithium ion cells.

    A lithium-ion battery stores energy by moving charged lithium ions through a matrix consisting of a carbon graphite anode and various different molecular cathodes. In Toyota's case cobalt oxide is the cathode, but in present technology exists as a large crystalline molecular structure.

    In the breakthrough, by creating single crystals, much less graphite is needed thereby making room for more energy storing lithium.

    Over the next 10 years Toyota engineers hope to completely eliminate the carbon altogether therefore effectively creating a battery that can hold 10 times the energy in the same mass.
     
  16. flabby

    flabby Member

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    I doesn't sound like they're ahead of the pack to me. From an autoblog green quote:

    "Toyota says the technology needs at least a decade to come to fruition." (Toyota, University of Tohoku improve lithium-ion batteries ten-fold (in the lab) — Autoblog Green)

    A lot can happen with technology in ("at least") 10 years. And who really knows what other companies are working on right now.
     
  17. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Exclusive: Toyota Explains Its Position on Electric Cars | Hybrid Cars
     
  18. domenick

    domenick Nerd

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    Funny then that Daihatsu, who they own a 51 percet share in is not only planning on making electric cars, but going to Toyota for a little integration knowhow. Notice one of the commenters left links to an electric Copen the company did a year or two ago.
     
  19. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    MONDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2009
    Toyota/Fuji Heavy EV Rumors

    Plugs and Cars
     
  20. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #20 vfx, Oct 6, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
    Toyota attempting to ‘green’ the sports car - Autos- msnbc.com

    ABG too
    http://green.autoblog.com/2009/10/06/tokyo-preview-toyota-ft-ev-ii-brings-the-tiny/

    Cue the jig music
     

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