TPMS CONTINUES TO FAIL... [RANT] And they are gonna send people the mars?

[scotty2541]

Personally, I wouldn't sign up, if these companies won't use parts that last more than three months.

After yet another failure, identified in my previous threads ( "Tire Pressure Monitor Service Required" Error Message and That TPMS issue, summarized ) it has failed again.

The "new" unit which he sold me was actually dirtier than the one I removed from my car and cleaned up. But he promised me it was new... "Maybe it had been installed, and it was determined that was not the reason for the someone's failure so it was removed."

Three months later, the error message returns. Nice quality. These are the guys who are going to send someone to Mars?

I called the service center on a Thursday. Had to leave a message at 4:15 pm, I was rather upset... It's now Tuesday, and they haven't called me back. Good thing I wasn't stuck on the side of the road waiting for a callback.

The other day I was talking to a friend as he was standing next to his model S. I mentioned that I was going to go look for a larger four door car because I needed something bigger. He pointed to his car and smiled big.

I told him, not just no, but HELL NO.

And this was the guy who had three cabin blowers replaced in his Roadster in one summer. Yet he thinks the sun shines out of... Fill in the rest.

I now own a Lexus ES350. Certified program car.

Do I sound pissed? Good. If they would spend an extra $5 on something like this to make the car appear reliable, I wouldn't be telling everyone I know about all the issues I've had. Seems a small price to pay for satisfying your customers, rather than hitting them for hundreds of dollars over and over for bad parts. But instead they seem to have that Chevrolet philosophy I experienced in the 80's: Build it with garbage, make a profit, and find another sucker who was born a minute later. I will never buy another Chevy either, but that's not a topic for this forum

I am going to restart my reverse engineering of this system. I got distracted after the new year. I may just build a phony emulator that tells the master unit everything is Okay, and then disable the antennas.

I feel better now...

 

[ecarfan]

These are the guys who are going to send someone to Mars?

No, those are not "the guys". It's these guys Mars

 

[candersoh]

i'm on my 3rd failure for my TPMS (2011 2.5s). thinking scotty might have a point here (and i'm not talking about mars)? hmmmmm.......

 

[DeedWest]

While I don't think BAOLONG's horrific TPMS sensors have anything to do with SpaceX, I do agree that the quality in the 2.0/2.5 TPMS system is severely flawed. It's arguably the worst part on the entire vehicle. Unfortunately, I just don't think Tesla themselves will (likely ever) spend the time to fix/replace them with a better option.
I do wonder, however, if it's possible to retrofit 2.X cars to the 1.5's TPMS or a higher quality system without the car throwing errors. Sure, it'd cost money, but if you were the first to make it successful, you could pave the way for all other frustrated owners. After all, this is what the Roadster community will be forced to become in the coming years as support for these rare and limited cars becomes scarce.

 

[adiggs]

I also don't expect Tesla to do anything to improve the quality of the TPMS system in the 2.5's. My "solution" - if I ignore the error messages, is the car markedly less? For me, it's no different than every other car I've ever owned (that didn't have a TPMS), and I've never invested energy worrying about whether my tires were inflated. Mostly a check of tire pressure roughly 1/year (and would be better quarterly), and I'm good to go. Heck - I change rear tires often enough, that's almost fast enough for air pressure checks.

For me, it's a great car if it didn't have a TPMS - I treat it like a car without a TPMS, and thus I'm good to go.

 

[gregd]

I also don't expect Tesla to do anything to improve the quality of the TPMS system in the 2.5's. My "solution" - if I ignore the error messages, is the car markedly less? For me, it's no different than every other car I've ever owned (that didn't have a TPMS), and I've never invested energy worrying about whether my tires were inflated. Mostly a check of tire pressure roughly 1/year (and would be better quarterly), and I'm good to go. Heck - I change rear tires often enough, that's almost fast enough for air pressure checks.

For me, it's a great car if it didn't have a TPMS - I treat it like a car without a TPMS, and thus I'm good to go.

I actually thought the same. I had the car in several times for TPMS errors, ending up with the SC deciding to replace all of them to get rid of the problem once and for all. A few months later it went off yet again! Turns out I had a nail in the tire, causing a slow leak...

 

[hcsharp]

My solution to the TPMS problem? Support Scotty2541 with his reverse engineering of the system.

 

[scotty2541]

Yes, actually, I know Tesla and SpaceX are different. But the public knows they are related, I was trying to drive a point home. The title got some attention, didn't it? Besides, the management philosophy is probably similar.

I don't know if the units from a 1.5 would work in a 2.x. I haven't had a unit to sniff the protocol. If it's a different unit, there would probably have to be a software change for the PEM system and computer to understand the other units. I would happily pay the few extra dollars for parts that actually last (like my 7 year old Acura).

I haven't tried the "ignore" strategy, because the TPMS is a system mandated by the Feds to keep gasoline efficiency high. And if it's failed, they may not let it pass the safety inspection. Not that gasoline efficiency makes any difference to this, but bureaucrats don't think logically.

I see lots of people posting that their service center helps them out. That would be nice... But the one I have to go to mostly doesn't seems to give a damn. As evidenced by they fact they still haven't called me back from my message last week.

Today, I had a company meeting with other engineers. My boss mentioned that I have a Tesla Roadster... And I got to lay into it about all the poor quality parts (TPMS, blower motors, control module failure, even squeaks and stuff). I'm tired of these issues, and not getting any satisfaction. So I'm not gonna cover for them anymore, like most owners who just rave about the car, ignoring all the problems... Mostly because they are warranty fixes.

 

[scotty2541]

My solution to the TPMS problem? Support Scotty2541 with his reverse engineering of the system.

Thanks. I will resume working on it soon. Work has had me travelling a bit recently.

 

[larmor]

I highly doubt tesla makes the TPMS sensor in house. And when some supplier fails, they do make that part themselves. They have done this for other parts in the car. And then there are complaints about delays. Adding to this, tesla did not get real suppliers for 100-200k number of cars, since orders for such small quantities do not draw out quality from suppliers... So far my tpms is fine, for the past 5 months and 12k miles.

 

[thecloud]

[RANT] And they are gonna send people the mars?
They already sent people the Mars.

 

[Canuck]

I don't understand the concern. Rockets don't have tires.

 

[hcsharp]

I don't understand the concern. Rockets don't have tires.

No wonder they get such bad mileage...

 

[ecarfan]

I know Tesla and SpaceX are different. But the public knows they are related, I was trying to drive a point home.

In my experience, of talking to dozens of people about SpaceX (I'm a fan of the company's mission) very few people know anything about the company at all beyond "Don't they make rockets?".

I don't know if the units from a 1.5 would work in a 2.x.

Based on my reading of TMC threads, they do not.

A search of the Roadster forums for "TPMS" will provide a lot of information. It will take you a few seconds to run the search, however. Here's a thread to start you off: TPMS Sensors

As for your "rant", my suggestion to you is that ranting is counterproductive. Rational, reasoned discussion can be productive.

 

[scotty2541]

I highly doubt tesla makes the TPMS sensor in house. And when some supplier fails, they do make that part themselves. They have done this for other parts in the car. And then there are complaints about delays. Adding to this, tesla did not get real suppliers for 100-200k number of cars, since orders for such small quantities do not draw out quality from suppliers... So far my tpms is fine, for the past 5 months and 12k miles.

I know that they don't make them, BAOLONG does. But Tesla buys the same ones for the S, and then I would assume for the X as well. When he ordered my replacement antenna,he said he also had to get extras, for an S and for stock at the service center. So, now you are talking about quantities in the 100,000's when manufacturing those cars.
And they didn't chose the higher quality device from the 1.5 did they...? They chose the crappy device from the 2.x. I have to believe they were aware of the poor quality and high failure rate when they made that decision. Or at least I hope they would.

 

[markwj]

I know that they don't make them, BAOLONG does. But Tesla buys the same ones for the S, and then I would assume for the X as well. When he ordered my replacement antenna,he said he also had to get extras, for an S and for stock at the service center. So, now you are talking about quantities in the 100,000's when manufacturing those cars.
And they didn't chose the higher quality device from the 1.5 did they...? They chose the crappy device from the 2.x. I have to believe they were aware of the poor quality and high failure rate when they made that decision. Or at least I hope they would.

The roadster and early S use the same sensor. The later S and all X use a different sensor. I am not sure the problem is actually with the sensors, anyway. I've had mine for six years and just had to have the first replacement (as the batteries in them were starting to die of old age). By comparison, I've had the antenna modules changed a few times in the first few years of ownership.

 

[scotty2541]

The roadster and early S use the same sensor. The later S and all X use a different sensor. I am not sure the problem is actually with the sensors, anyway. I've had mine for six years and just had to have the first replacement (as the batteries in them were starting to die of old age). By comparison, I've had the antenna modules changed a few times in the first few years of ownership.

Well, guess what...
I hooked up my LIN sniffer tool,and saw that the addresses to the FRONT antenna were bad. This is the device they replaced a couple years ago. In between the 2 second spacing of the messages, I inserted the "program" command to tell it to set the tire transmitter addresses for the front sensor. Now it all works great.
Ultimately, this is also what was wrong with my rear sensor that I replaced in December. Probably the same life time too.

So why is the antenna forgetting who it is after two or so years? Is it really equipment that is THAT crappy, that all of them self erase after a couple years? Is the unit designed to do that, forcing you to buy a repair? Or is it more sinister, that the controller intentionally sabotages the antennas?

And frankly,I don't trust the service center to actually get it right. The philosophy of those places it simply keep replacing parts until it starts working. Then bill you for it.

By the way, it's been over two weeks since I called and complained to their voice mail. No one EVER called back. And it was a message I left at 4:30 in the afternoon too. Not like they missed it from an overnight call.

 

[markwj]

So why is the antenna forgetting who it is after two or so years? Is it really equipment that is THAT crappy, that all of them self erase after a couple years? Is the unit designed to do that, forcing you to buy a repair? Or is it more sinister, that the controller intentionally sabotages the antennas?

If the antenna is disconnected, doesn't it 'forget' the sensors? Perhaps a loose connection?

 

[PV-EV]

Is it possible that the addresses are getting corrupted by some weird kind of cross talk or interference? I hate to jinx myself but we have not had any problems with our TPMS with the exception of one sensor needing to be replace most likely because of the battery. Seems like some cars are prone to constant failures and others are not.

 

[scotty2541]

If the antenna is disconnected, doesn't it 'forget' the sensors? Perhaps a loose connection?

No, disconnecting the antenna doesn't make it forget. It stores the address in some "flash" or "EEPROM" (don't know which). I originally reprogrammed the old antenna on my work bench when I was reverse engineering it. Refer back this this long thread:
That TPMS issue, summarized

I pulled the bench power supply, disconnected it from my sniffer/programmer, and installed it in the Roadster. It remembers just fine.