Track junkies, need some info

[cOoTeR]

What I can say for sure is no one at Tesla has the time to "GPS track your car" to figure out if you were on the track at some point. Quite frankly, most of those technicians don't care they just want to fix your car and get it gone.

They aren't going to GPS track your car. But when you have an issue and schedule service they check the vehicle logs. When I was getting warning lights for most of the driving systems being disabled a tech emailed me and asked for a time frame for when the issue happened so he could remote into the car and check the vehicle logs. He was able to diagnose it down to an issue with the front passenger side wheel speed sensor without the car being in the shop. Turned out a wire on the wheel speed harness had rubbed on the drive unit and would occasionally short out.

I don't know how long the logs are stored with the car or if any information is flagged but they can definitely see how the car is being driven when an issue occurs. If they see that the car is going from 120+ mph down to 40mph followed by several hard accelerations and braking inputs with the traction control activating in track mode multiple times over 20min it's pretty easy to see its being tracked. With all the information the car is always taking in and logging I wouldn't be surprised if GPS data was logged.

The warranty specifically says that racing and track use are not covered under warranty.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

The warranty specifically says that racing and track use are not covered under warranty.

The warranty document I can see says:

"This New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any vehicle damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by...including but not limited to, curbs, potholes, unfinished roads, debris, or other obstacles, or in competition, racing or autocross or for any other purposes for which the vehicle is not designed;"

Nothing about track use. Only competitive uses. I realise you allow timing on your track days in the U.S. (we don't) but for pure track driving it doesn't seem to me there would be any problem and again, why would Tesla have a 'track pack' if it invalidated the warranty?

 

[SD_Engnr]

They aren't going to GPS track your car. But when you have an issue and schedule service they check the vehicle logs. When I was getting warning lights for most of the driving systems being disabled a tech emailed me and asked for a time frame for when the issue happened so he could remote into the car and check the vehicle logs. He was able to diagnose it down to an issue with the front passenger side wheel speed sensor without the car being in the shop. Turned out a wire on the wheel speed harness had rubbed on the drive unit and would occasionally short out.

I don't know how long the logs are stored with the car or if any information is flagged but they can definitely see how the car is being driven when an issue occurs. If they see that the car is going from 120+ mph down to 40mph followed by several hard accelerations and braking inputs with the traction control activating in track mode multiple times over 20min it's pretty easy to see its being tracked. With all the information the car is always taking in and logging I wouldn't be surprised if GPS data was logged.

The warranty specifically says that racing and track use are not covered under warranty.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is actively GPS tracking the car, but it wouldn't be hard for them to look through the logs and see something obviously related to a track day:

(Courtesy of my Google maps timeline)

I only wish that they had to seek permission for a specific date range to review the logs remotely.

 

[Ryephile]

The warranty document I can see says:

"This New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any vehicle damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by...including but not limited to, curbs, potholes, unfinished roads, debris, or other obstacles, or in competition, racing or autocross or for any other purposes for which the vehicle is not designed;"

Nothing about track use. Only competitive uses. I realise you allow timing on your track days in the U.S. (we don't) but for pure track driving it doesn't seem to me there would be any problem and again, why would Tesla have a 'track pack' if it invalidated the warranty?

Other than "competition, racing...or any other purposes for which the vehicle is not designed." Even if you could successfully argue taking your street car on a race track isn't racing, that big broad "other purposes" is ensuring they'll win and you'll lose. For comparison, read the warranty for a C7 Corvette or Gen6 Camaro 1LE, where they explicitly call out that track days are covered under the warranty. It's a huge difference in wording. While you're at it, dig up the VW Mk6 TDI warranty and buckle up for more exclusions than inclusions.

You're also making an assumption that just because the car has a Track mode that you're entitled to warranty coverage on a racetrack. The owners manual explains what Track mode is for and how it works, not that you have additional warranty entitlements. Track mode and no warranty coverage on a racetrack are not contradictory.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Well maybe we'll just have to wait for a test case to find out.

 

[Ryephile]

Hey guys, I am about to order a Performance Model 3 to replace my track car. I think it is time to move away from oil and get a more practical car at the same time. Anyway I would like to get some information for this car as a track vehicle, please let me know what I should be looking for and I have several questions
....
Thanks

Here's my take after three track days with the M3P, after at least a hundred days in other sports cars:
#1. Like others have said, 18"s and 19"s work
#2. My Performance came with 235's front and back. Like others have said, 265's all-around with no rub, 275's with more camber.
#3. The stock pads are low-dust street, they have no business being on track. Trackable pads are a must for anything more than fast parade laps.
#4. It's fine. You'll only get a handful of hot laps at full power before it starts dialing it back.
#5. Reliability seems good so far, and per the warranty verbiage, no on-track warranty, like most OEMs.
#6. Just toe with factory parts. More front camber is critical, however
#7. In the Midwest, it's the main issue. I have to be careful to leave enough charge to get to the nearest Supercharger, which can be >30 miles away.
#8. The stock suspension is floaty, (it is definitely a street car first) but overall the car is benign. They way it exits the corners is impressive, but the sluggish turn-in highlights every one of the 4100 pounds.

I hope that helps add a data point.

 

[Ryephile]

Well maybe we'll just have to wait for a test case to find out.

I know it feels good to "stick it to the man", but in this case you'd just go broke from lawyer fees. If you want a new car that has on-track warranty coverage, your options are extremely limited.

Here's an amusing article where Autoblog asked several automakers for warranty clarification on the exact phrasing you're getting hung up on: Is your new-car warranty good at the race track?

At the end of the day, none of that matters if you have an off and bin the car into the armco. As the saying goes: only put on the track what you can afford to walk away from.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Seriously, I'm not bothered. I'm just pointing out what the warranty says. Each individual can decide for themselves what they want to risk.

if you stick it in the Armco, the warranty will be the least of your worries.

 

[kbecks13]

My basic track gears for the car

4 r comps + rims
Track pads and fluid

Not going down that modded route, it’s technically my wife’s car so I have to make sure it is back to normal after

Maybe also consider a sway bar or two, they really change the handling of the car and your wife likely will never know

Yeah, I don't think anyone is actively GPS tracking the car, but it wouldn't be hard for them to look through the logs and see something obviously related to a track day:

LOL - hey, why's that guy going around in circles over and over?? Also they could see how you used 100 miles of range in about 15 minutes On a serious note, i wouldn't be surprised if they are logging how many times, or perhaps how many hours, we engage track mode similar to how they track DC charging (supercharging). That said, i totally agree they have better things to do then dig for reasons to invalidate warranties - they just have it in writing in case they really want to play that card.

 

[CrayZ1]

The AutoX exclusion is a bit bizarre. At best, it's time trials that normally last 60s or less. Many are not competitive. I do comparative testing at AX events. There is nothing about AutoX that is harder on the car than aggressive street driving, in fact it's lacks potholes and drain gullies, and if the track is laid out right, you should not hit 60 mph is a production car.

 

[CrayZ1]

Question: How much tire pressure are you running on OEM M3P tires for track use?

 

[Lunares]

Question: How much tire pressure are you running on OEM M3P tires for track use?

for autox i run around 37-38 psi hot. I haven't ran track enough yet to dial anything in.

 

[destructure00]

Question: How much tire pressure are you running on OEM M3P tires for track use?

I ran mine at 40 hot on the track and corded 2 of them. My conclusion was that PS4S are not fit for track use, as I've seen others have similar results. Others have said that they had better luck at much higher pressure.

 

[CrayZ1]

I ran mine at 40 hot on the track and corded 2 of them. My conclusion was that PS4S are not fit for track use, as I've seen others have similar results. Others have said that they had better luck at much higher pressure.

View attachment 500779 View attachment 500777

Fronts or rears? The first time I AX'd an EV was a CODA back ~2012 and I melted the fronts.

 

[destructure00]

Fronts or rears? The first time I AX'd an EV was a CODA back ~2012 and I melted the fronts.

Those are both of the driver's side tires. We were running clockwise on the track.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Those are both of the driver's side tires. We were running clockwise on the track.

Was this with factory suspension? No additional camber?

 

[Ryephile]

I ran mine at 40 hot on the track and corded 2 of them. My conclusion was that PS4S are not fit for track use, as I've seen others have similar results. Others have said that they had better luck at much higher pressure....

I have an alternate take on this tire. The PS4S are quite track tolerant....on other cars that aren't suffering from the lack of camber the Model 3 has. My most recent personal example would be my 2017 Camaro SS 1LE. I used PS4S's for wet track tires, and their tread wear was completely acceptable because the 6g Camaro suspension allows for reasonable track alignments with factory hardware.

IME, the issue is the Model 3's suspension, not the tire. The obvious fixes are more static camber and stiffer ARB's to minimize dynamic camber loss.

 

[destructure00]

Was this with factory suspension? No additional camber?

Correct

 

[destructure00]

I have an alternate take on this tire. The PS4S are quite track tolerant....on other cars that aren't suffering from the lack of camber the Model 3 has. My most recent personal example would be my 2017 Camaro SS 1LE. I used PS4S's for wet track tires, and their tread wear was completely acceptable because the 6g Camaro suspension allows for reasonable track alignments with factory hardware.

IME, the issue is the Model 3's suspension, not the tire. The obvious fixes are more static camber and stiffer ARB's to minimize dynamic camber loss.

You're probably right, plus our cars are fairly heavy. I had one or two track days on my 2016 BMW 340i with PS4S, no problems there, even with factory suspension and alignment.

 

[Ryephile]

You're probably right, plus our cars are fairly heavy. I had one or two track days on my 2016 BMW 340i with PS4S, no problems there, even with factory suspension and alignment.

Yes, a 235 wide tire with about 1,018 pounds per tire is hard on tires even with good dynamic camber. A stock Model 3, as your pictures show, rides almost solely on the sidewall at peak lateral accel. The rest of the tire is essentially unused. Improving the suspension so the tire contact patch is in fully utilized at peak lateral accel is key to achieve even tire wear and max cornering grip.