Track specific brake/rim/tyre combo

[Bennny]

Hi All

Thinking about getting a dedicated set of track rims/tyres for my incoming M3P. I've been reading for hours and hours, but still need further advice from those in the know....

Tyre criteria:

1. Seeking maximum bang for buck on a cost per lap basis - not competing, just doing social track days
2. Prefer a tyre with wide temperature range, don't want something that goes on/off quickly or wears super fast
3. I won't be driving in the wet
4. Don't want to alter guards or the knuckle for clearance
5. Will adjust both front and rear camber for track days to recommended settings
6. I'm only a beginner track user having a bit of fun
7. Options on the shortlist:
   1. R888R
   2. Cup 2
   3. AD08R
   4. A052
   5. A050
   6. RE71RS
   7. NT01
   8. Eagle F1 Supercar 3

Rim Criteria:

1. Needs to fit MPP BBK (unsure whether I should go the 368 or 380 option)
2. I have Advan GT 19x9.5+29 and Rays TE37 19x9.5+28 already, thinking of using one as street rim and the other as track rim
3. Happy to purchase a basic 18" rim to give me access cheaper rubber or tyres that are only available in 18 (A050), but need to make sure it clears the BBK

Questions:

1. What tyres do you recommend off that list and why? Is there a better option I've missed?
2. What size rubber/rims should I go for for maximum bang per $?

 

[MasterC17]

I would consider the Continental ExtremeContact Force. It's has the good qualities of the Hankook RS4 but doesn't take several laps to warm up. That and the Supercar 3 seem like they would fit your criteria the best.

For cheapy wheels the 19x9.5 ET40 Konig Oversteer's are a decent option at ~25lbs a piece. I would go 19" for the wheels as there is generally better tire availability and better knuckle clearance.

BBK is mostly for looks when comparing 368mm to 380mm. Though, the 380mm under a 19" wheel look super (see below).

~275's on a 9.5" or 10" wheel is probably what you are looking for.

 

[gearchruncher]

Beginner track day? Not AutoX?
RS4 is the generic go to if that is your one use case. Any reason you didn't want that tire? It's the king of cost per lap. It's what all the cost-matters endurance spec race organizations run.

Almost all the tires you listed will be way more $$ per lap. They are focused on lap times, not cost.

I'd also say that unless you are trying to be competitive, tires like the MPS4S are pretty good on track days as well and wear well. With modern UHP tires, you don't have to run a track tire, and they are cheap per lap as well.

 

[Bennny]

Beginner track day? Not AutoX?

Yep - my local track (Sandown, Melbourne) has track days that anyone can enter. Have a bit of fun with the car, legally.

I'd also say that unless you are trying to be competitive, tires like the MPS4S are pretty good on track days as well and wear well. With modern UHP tires, you don't have to run a track tire, and they are cheap per lap as well.

Ah good - since I’ll have those anyway, might give them a run for the first track day and see what I think.

How would they compare wear wise to the RS4 when pushed?

 

[MasterC17]

Yep - my local track (Sandown, Melbourne) has track days that anyone can enter. Have a bit of fun with the car, legally.


Ah good - since I’ll have those anyway, might give them a run for the first track day and see what I think.

How would they compare wear wise to the RS4 when pushed?

My guess is the Hankook RS4 would outlast the PS4S when pushed to the limit.

That being said, the one thing I don't like about the RS4 is it's basically hard as a rock until it warms up which takes a few laps. I am hoping the aforementioned Continental has similar wear characteristics, but warms up almost instantly. That's the feedback I've been hearing, but we will have to try it out to be sure.

 

[tm1v2]

For what it's worth, a friend who regularly tracks his two daily driver sports cars (not Teslas) has used PS4S on the track and basically said it's very doable but not a great experience. Said the PS4S are VERY sensitive to pressure and will overheat and get greasy, even if you're as perfect as can be with pressure adjustments (just like most any tire in that category, in my past experience). When he was very very on top of adjusting his pressures throughout the track day, he got surprisingly good wear characteristics out of the PS4S! But letting them get too hot once without letting more air out again led to shredding them very quickly.

Even when kept at optimal pressure for wear, the PS4S would still overheat and get greasy. Not disastrously so but he could feel it clearly.

This is with track-prepped sports cars (e.g. track-friendly alignment and suspension setup) that are lighter and less powerful than our Model 3's. To him PS4S is still a great option if your focus is more on daily driving, he thinks they're perfect for that and you can still do occasional track days on them. But for more track focus they're not it.

Also from my own past experience, which granted could be outdated now, I wouldn't expect anything different/better from any other tire in the PS4S "max performance" category. It's still a primarily street focused category.

Lastly this is all assuming you're out there to push your car hard. I know there's people who do track days but mostly avoid pushing to their car's absolute limits and maybe they would have a great experience with PS4S or other tires in that category. (No criticism there, as long as they're being safe, having fun, and not being a complete roadblock it's up to them how comfortable they feel pushing their car hard!)

 

[tm1v2]

My own experience with past >250 TW tires was similar. Very sensitive to pressure, needed constant letting air out throughout the day, and would still get greasy. Then I tried a 200 TW tire and it was a revelation. I was driving faster and harder yet it just kept on gripping, didn't overheat, and didn't need constant futzing with pressure. The one I used was also perfectly fine on the street, it didn't need to be warmed up to grip well, and it wasn't even that loud. (Not super quiet, but far from the loudest tire I'd used!) It was a much better experience than trying to make "max performance" tires work, even though yes they can be tracked.

 

[dsgerbc]

Yep - my local track (Sandown, Melbourne) has track days that anyone can enter. Have a bit of fun with the car, legally.


Ah good - since I’ll have those anyway, might give them a run for the first track day and see what I think.

How would they compare wear wise to the RS4 when pushed?

I did a track day on PS4S. They got greasy quick.
The RS4s last forever.
Haven't tried Conti Extreme Force, but heard good things.
Another cheap option is Federal 595RS-PRO/RR, but they need camber up front not to get greasy.

 

[Sam1]

Hi All

Thinking about getting a dedicated set of track rims/tyres for my incoming M3P. I've been reading for hours and hours, but still need further advice from those in the know....

Tyre criteria:

1. Seeking maximum bang for buck on a cost per lap basis - not competing, just doing social track days
2. Prefer a tyre with wide temperature range, don't want something that goes on/off quickly or wears super fast
3. I won't be driving in the wet
4. Don't want to alter guards or the knuckle for clearance
5. Will adjust both front and rear camber for track days to recommended settings
6. I'm only a beginner track user having a bit of fun
7. Options on the shortlist:
   1. R888R
   2. Cup 2
   3. AD08R
   4. A052
   5. A050
   6. RE71RS
   7. NT01
   8. Eagle F1 Supercar 3

Rim Criteria:

1. Needs to fit MPP BBK (unsure whether I should go the 368 or 380 option)
2. I have Advan GT 19x9.5+29 and Rays TE37 19x9.5+28 already, thinking of using one as street rim and the other as track rim
3. Happy to purchase a basic 18" rim to give me access cheaper rubber or tyres that are only available in 18 (A050), but need to make sure it clears the BBK

Questions:

1. What tyres do you recommend off that list and why? Is there a better option I've missed?
2. What size rubber/rims should I go for for maximum bang per $?

I can assure you that if you're a beginner, slapping a set of R888R's is a complete waste of money. get something cheaper.

 

[Bennny]

My own experience with past >250 TW tires was similar. Very sensitive to pressure, needed constant letting air out throughout the day, and would still get greasy. Then I tried a 200 TW tire and it was a revelation. I was driving faster and harder yet it just kept on gripping, didn't overheat, and didn't need constant futzing with pressure. The one I used was also perfectly fine on the street, it didn't need to be warmed up to grip well, and it wasn't even that loud. (Not super quiet, but far from the loudest tire I'd used!) It was a much better experience than trying to make "max performance" tires work, even though yes they can be tracked.

Which 200 TW tire did you try mate?

 

[tm1v2]

Which 200 TW tire did you try mate?

@Bennny Bridgestone RE-11. Long gone from the market. Was really great for a mix of daily driving with lots of street miles + occasional track days. Friends have told me the Goodyear Supercar 3 might be a close spiritual successor to it as a good dual use tire. Sizing of that one is limited, I guess it started life as an OEM-only tire, but there are 19" sizes that would work well for a Model 3 (with appropriate wheel size of course). The Continental ExtremeContact Force recommendation from @MasterC17 also sounds very promising for a dual use tire. I don't personally know anyone who's used it yet, but if I were shopping for a dual use tire, I'd put it on my short list!

Bridgestone had the RE-11A too at one point but that's also long gone now.

Then came the RE-71R but that was a very different tire, not a successor to the RE-11. It's also been discontinued now.

You're shopping for track-only, right? No need for good street manners if they're going on separate track wheels. But since track wear characteristics are your top priority, I guess that might lead you to these same street-friendly / dual use tires (Goodyear SC3, Conti ECF, etc).

 

[Bennny]

I can assure you that if you're a beginner, slapping a set of R888R's is a complete waste of money. get something cheaper.

Why’s that mate?

 

[The Other Dan]

If your really just starting out, then everything you are wondering about is a complete waste of time and money.
You will be so over your head just learning the line and trying to be consistant.
Bleed your brakes, put in some Dot4 or 5.1 fluid and go learn.

As a former race/high performance driving instructor, I can tell you the best thing you can do your first day or two is get an instructor to ride with you and be a sponge. Make sure its an actual instructor and not just your buddy whose done it a few times.
Don't try to go fast, just focus on learning the line, your braking and turn in points, the apex, and above all, consistency.