Track Tire/wheel Set Advice

[destructure00]

I've pretty well decided on running the Hankook Ventus R-S4 tire in a 265/40-18.

Will wait for feedback from Discount/Konig about the Hypergram wheel. If they say no, or are willing to ship one in to test fit and it doesn't work, then I think I'll probably go with the TSW Watkins (waiting price and brake fitment confirmation from EVTuning). Backup selection will be the Apex EC-7.

 

[Davidss2]

Ok I just test fit and weighed the enkei raijin and the konig dekagram both in 18x9.5 +35. As previously reported the enkei fits the performance brakes but needs a slight grind on the rear caliper and possibly a tiny front spacer. The dekagram bolts right up with no need for rear caliper grinding and only a spacer needed in the front for larger tire sizes. The dekagram is also a flow formed wheel so it's good quality and it's also lighter:

Enkei Raijin 21.115lbs
Konig Dekagram 20.590lbs

Konig Dekagram Semi-Matte Black Wheels DK98514355

 

[destructure00]

Ok I just test fit and weighed the enkei raijin and the konig dekagram both in 18x9.5 +35. As previously reported the enkei fits the performance brakes but needs a slight grind on the rear caliper and possibly a tiny front spacer. The dekagram bolts right up with no need for rear caliper grinding and only a spacer needed in the front for larger tire sizes. The dekagram is also a flow formed wheel so it's good quality and it's also lighter:

Enkei Raijin 21.115lbs
Konig Dekagram 20.590lbs

Konig Dekagram Semi-Matte Black Wheels DK98514355

Fantastic!

FYI the Dekagram are $197 from Discount vs the $238 from Summit
https://www.discounttire.com/buy-wheels/konig-dekagram

FWIW the Hypergram is also flow formed...since the Dekagram fits I'd guess that the Hypergram will also fit. $4 cheaper per wheel and a pound lighter.

 

[destructure00]

I just called Konig and the guy told me the barrel sizes should be identical between the Dekagram and Hypergram.


Hypergram info

Dekagram info - weight shows TBA but is measured at 20.59 lbs above.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Enkei PF01 do clear though

Do you have a definitive source for this?

I'm looking (somewhat urgently ) for a set of range wheels for my P3D+, so I'm looking at Enkei PF01 18x8.5 ET35 ...which of course Tire Rack says "do not fit." I've done a thread search here, and generally people say these do fit, but I haven't actually found a thread in my searching with someone who says they actually did fit them on their car. I might have missed a post I guess. Presumably wheel weights would need to be carefully positioned so that they clear both front and rear calipers, for tire rotations.

Even though Tire Rack only has silver which isn't my preference, I'd probably just go ahead and order them from there if I were SURE they would fit the rear calipers without any grinding or modification.

So, can anyone who has the PF01 on a P3D+ provide some info on this? Pictures of clearance to the rear caliper would be ideal!

I just called Konig and the guy told me the barrel sizes should be identical between the Dekagram and Hypergram.

Thanks for the convenient links on these. I guess I should look into these as well. Probably not going to be in stock in time though for me. Everything is ok with Konig wheels? My main criteria is that they stay in one piece...

 

[destructure00]

Thanks for the convenient links on these. I guess I should look into these as well. Probably not going to be in stock in time though for me. Everything is ok with Konig wheels? My main criteria is that they stay in one piece...

No prob. I tried googling Konig wheel failures and found one post from 2005, that's it. So hopefully they will hold up to track use. Pulled the trigger on the Hypergrams this afternoon...Discount said they are backordered but found one of their stores in VA Beach that had a set, bringing them in. Told them I want to test fit before they mount and balance them. I'll report back once they arrive and we do the test fit, hopefully by the weekend.

 

[Davidss2]

I have a number of track cars that use the hypergram and dekagram wheels and they have held up fine. The new flow formed konig wheels have a great reputation.

 

[Lunares]

Do you have a definitive source for this?

I'm looking (somewhat urgently ) for a set of range wheels for my P3D+, so I'm looking at Enkei PF01 18x8.5 ET35 ...which of course Tire Rack says "do not fit." I've done a thread search here, and generally people say these do fit, but I haven't actually found a thread in my searching with someone who says they actually did fit them on their car. I might have missed a post I guess. Presumably wheel weights would need to be carefully positioned so that they clear both front and rear calipers, for tire rotations.

Even though Tire Rack only has silver which isn't my preference, I'd probably just go ahead and order them from there if I were SURE they would fit the rear calipers without any grinding or modification.

So, can anyone who has the PF01 on a P3D+ provide some info on this? Pictures of clearance to the rear caliper would be ideal!



Thanks for the convenient links on these. I guess I should look into these as well. Probably not going to be in stock in time though for me. Everything is ok with Konig wheels? My main criteria is that they stay in one piece...

I talked with both Konig and Enkei live (phone support).They claimed that hypergram/rpf01 wouldn't fit and the pf01 would. I did not actually test fit either wheel.

Ended up going custom since I wanted 9.5" wide, lighter, a particular color and guaranteed large amounts of clearance and hub fit.



I had already grinded my calipers a bit actually with my winter tires so wanted to avoid any more

 

[FlyNavy01]

Ok I just test fit and weighed the enkei raijin and the konig dekagram both in 18x9.5 +35. As previously reported the enkei fits the performance brakes but needs a slight grind on the rear caliper and possibly a tiny front spacer. The dekagram bolts right up with no need for rear caliper grinding and only a spacer needed in the front for larger tire sizes. The dekagram is also a flow formed wheel so it's good quality and it's also lighter:

Enkei Raijin 21.115lbs
Konig Dekagram 20.590lbs

Konig Dekagram Semi-Matte Black Wheels DK98514355

Strangely the 19x9.5" +35 version of the dekagram is apparently lighter at 19.86lbs.

Considering 265/40/18 rubber typically weighs 1-2lbs more than 265/35/19 (at the furthest point from the axis of rotation to boot), you could potentially save another 2-3lbs per corner by going 19" and no longer have to worry about clearance issues.

I may have just found myself a great "bang for your buck" track setup.

 

[destructure00]

Strangely the 19x9.5" +35 version of the dekagram is apparently lighter at 19.86lbs.

Considering 265/40/18 rubber typically weighs 1-2lbs more than 265/35/19 (at the furthest point from the axis of rotation to boot), you could potentially save another 2-3lbs per corner by going 19" and no longer have to worry about clearance issues.

I may have just found myself a great "bang for your buck" track setup.

Here's a comparison from Discount Tire. I'm using RE-71R as the "budget" tire in the 19 (only one in this class I could find under $300), and the R-S4 in the 18. Looks like neither are available in the other size from what I can find, so it's hard to do apples to apples comparison. This all assumes the 18" wheel fits.

265/35-19 RE-71R : $279, 28 lbs
19x9.5 Konig Dekagram: $224, 19.9 lbs
Wheel/tire price $2012
Weight per corner 47.9 lbs

265/40-18 R-S4: $225, 28 lbs
18x9.5 Konig Hypergram: $193, 19.4 lbs
Wheel/tire price $1672
Weight per corner 47.4 lbs

 

[dfwatt]

Here's a comparison from Discount Tire. I'm using RE-71R as the "budget" tire in the 19 (only one in this class I could find under $300), and the R-S4 in the 18. Looks like neither are available in the other size from what I can find, so it's hard to do apples to apples comparison. This all assumes the 18" wheel fits.

265/35-19 RE-71R : $279, 28 lbs
19x9.5 Konig Dekagram: $224, 19.9 lbs
Wheel/tire price $2012
Weight per corner 47.9 lbs

265/40-18 R-S4: $225, 28 lbs
18x9.5 Konig Hypergram: $193, 19.4 lbs
Wheel/tire price $1672
Weight per corner 47.4 lbs

Good dig out! You'll have a classic trade-off there between a slightly faster combo that wears poorly and a slightly longer lasting combo that probably rides a little bit better but is not as quick, or probably as much fun to drive at the limit as the re71. But those are very reasonable track shoe prices overall. I've been looking for the Koenig dekagram but I can't seem to find it on the Discount Tire website? Do you have a link?

 

[destructure00]

Good dig out! You'll have a classic trade-off there between a slightly faster combo that wears poorly and a slightly longer lasting combo that probably rides a little bit better but is not as quick, or probably as much fun to drive at the limit as the re71. But those are very reasonable track shoe prices overall. I've been looking for the Koenig dekagram but I can't seem to find it on the Discount Tire website? Do you have a link?

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-wheels/konig-dekagram

 

[dfwatt]

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-wheels/konig-dekagram

Unfortunately Discount Tires website won't accept that link. They want location information first. In any case when I manually dig out the information it does not lift that wheel as compatible with an all wheel drive performance model 3? I'm wondering why do you have any insight into that? It's an amazingly light wheel. When I go to the Konig website to try to get more information, it lists two versions of a 19 by 9.5 inch wheel in that style. One is more concave and lighter which appears to be the wheel on the Discount Tire website and one is listed as slightly heavier and less concave that fits cars with big brakes. So I wonder if that will hangs on the performance model brake system.

 

[destructure00]

Unfortunately Discount Tires website won't accept that link. They want location information first. In any case when I manually dig out the information it does not lift that wheel as compatible with an all wheel drive performance model 3? I'm wondering why do you have any insight into that? It's an amazingly light wheel. When I go to the Konig website to try to get more information, it lists two versions of a 19 by 9.5 inch wheel in that style. One is more concave and lighter which appears to be the wheel on the Discount Tire website and one is listed as slightly heavier and less concave that fits cars with big brakes. So I wonder if that will hangs on the performance model brake system.

I'm going off of @Davidss2 post #42 above that says he was able to fit the 18x9.5 Dekagram over the performance brakes. If the 18's fit, the 19's should be no problem as well. Based on that information, and my phone call to Konig to confirm that the Hypergram barrel was the same size as the Dekagram, I ordered the 18x9.5 Hypergrams. They will hopefully be here this coming weekend, and I'll report back on fitment when they arrive.

 

[dfwatt]

I'm going off of @Davidss2 post #42 above that says he was able to fit the 18x9.5 Dekagram over the performance brakes. If the 18's fit, the 19's should be no problem as well. Based on that information, and my phone call to Konig to confirm that the Hypergram barrel was the same size as the Dekagram, I ordered the 18x9.5 Hypergrams. They will hopefully be here this coming weekend, and I'll report back on fitment when they arrive.

Super. Thanks very much. If they fit then I will probably order the decagrams in the 19.

 

[destructure00]

Super. Thanks very much. If they fit then I will probably order the decagrams in the 19.

Is the concavity the difference between the 19x9.5A and 19x9.5B that I was seeing on the Dekagram spec sheet? I was wondering what that meant.

**edit - nevermind, found this on the bottom of the page

The Dekagram 18x9.5 is only listed with the A profile, so I'm pretty sure that's what @Davidss2 must have tested?

Are the rear brake clearance issues with most 18" wheels between the caliper and wheel spokes, or on the top between the caliper and inside of the wheel barrel?

 

[Lunares]

Is the concavity the difference between the 19x9.5A and 19x9.5B that I was seeing on the Dekagram spec sheet? I was wondering what that meant.

View attachment 423201

**edit - nevermind, found this on the bottom of the page
View attachment 423205

The Dekagram 18x9.5 is only listed with the A profile, so I'm pretty sure that's what @Davidss2 must have tested?

Are the rear brake clearance issues with most 18" wheels between the caliper and wheel spokes, or on the top between the caliper and inside of the wheel barrel?

Top between caliper and inside of the wheel barrel. The parking brake + caliper + larger rotor means it just has a larger diameter, not forward profile. Concavity doesn't tend to be a big deal with fitting model 3 brakes (unless it affects which lateral position is the smallest diameter of the barrel and places that over the caliper).

Note specifically if you look at your calipers there are these 3 little squares that stick out a few mm. These are the cast points from manufacturing the brake. The outside corner of the 2 outside squares sticks out the furthest, that's where I had to grind.

 

[dfwatt]

Is the concavity the difference between the 19x9.5A and 19x9.5B that I was seeing on the Dekagram spec sheet? I was wondering what that meant.

View attachment 423201

**edit - nevermind, found this on the bottom of the page
View attachment 423205

The Dekagram 18x9.5 is only listed with the A profile, so I'm pretty sure that's what @Davidss2 must have tested?

Are the rear brake clearance issues with most 18" wheels between the caliper and wheel spokes, or on the top between the caliper and inside of the wheel barrel?

Yes I think the A profile is less concave as I remember but I'm not positive. Most of the brake clearance issues are on the rear and it's the barrel I believe that sometimes requires a bit of shaving down of the rear caliper but I've never done that or considered it myself so you have to dig out the sources on the Forum to get clarification on that point. That's part of why I want the 19in wheel because I don't want to bother with that especially if there's minimal difference in unsprung weight. Plus the 19-inch wheel looks better on the car. And last but not least the re71 is my all-time favorite no-holds-barred dry handling Tire, and the logical size is that 265 / 35 - 19, although Mountain Pass has talked about fitting a 275 / 35. On the other hand the re71 is not much fun in terms of ride and Noise on the street, but it's great on a smooth track.

 

[Davidss2]

Ok got the tires mounted on the dekagrams and everything on the car.

Setup:
18x9.5 +35 konig dekagrams
275/40-18 Nexen SUR4G
3mm spacer in the front which I don't think is even totally necessary

 

[MayorMcCheese]

I've run the "18X9.5 ET35 APEX EC-7 MUSTANG WHEEL" from APEX Race Parts to great effect on the track with some sticky rubbers. Just barely fits the stock P3D+ calipers. You don't need a spacer because the bore is larger than stock, and I haven't run hubcentric rings but you certainly could. It's hard to find rings that will fit - I ordered Hub Centric Rings ( 64.1 - 70.4) 64.1mm to 70.4mm - JustForWheels.com.