Track week-end comments

[PierrotM3LRP]

I had 2days of TT Saturday and Sunday and here are my comments:
First let me describe the car:
2020 Model 3 Performance
MPP FUCAs, (2.3 Camber front, .03 toe in/side)
MPP camber arm rear (2 Camber rear, .02 toe out/side)
Brakes: OEM rotor, only changed pads and oil (Motul RBF 600, front pads XP20, rear pads RP2 Carbotech)
UPP streetand track swaybars set to middle both rear and front
8.5", 30mm offset front wheel
9.5" 35mm offset rear wheel
245/40/19 Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 (K120) Front
275/35/19 Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 (K120) Rear

- I ran around 50 laps over 2 days at NCCAR 2 miles track
- Charged between each session with their NEMA 15-40, 30 AMP (free)
- Got to the track each day with around 225 miles left. Charged to 265 miles on site early mornings before 1st sessions.
-Total of 5 sessions Saturday with a "autocross" type of event as last TT sessions. (3 practice/qualifiers each morning, TT afternoons)
- Total 6 sessions Sunday.

No brakes issues at all
No temperature issues at all (track mode all the time, temp was from 50 to 65 F Sat and Sun)

Interesting thigs to note: ( I am in the Intermediate group, car is T2 )
- My best time on dry track: 1:43
- Best time in my group: 1:31 (GT-R, tuned with Sport Cup 2 R)
- My best time in the rain: 1:48, more than 5 sec faster than anyone in my group, needless to say that the cars with race tires obviously did not do good at all.
That's also only 5 secs slower than my best time on dry pavement.
- So I think that I had an issue with my tires' grip, the front ones specificaly.
- Managing energy is critical, so I had to drop out of the last session on Sunday to spare that energy to go back home.
- It's still possible to do everything, but be prepare to sacrifice some time to get charged.

The most important:

1- I had a blast, that car is fun to drive, easy to setup and change them to try to find the right one which I probably did not do
2- The other TT participants impressions were spread between interrested and watchfull to very impressed by the Model 3 performances and handling.

Alright, that's it, a simple condensed view from a new owner taht took his car to the track for the first time.




P.S. I was at the same track in September with my Miata MX-5 ND and also had a blast.



Pierre

 

[Sam1]

That's really interesting... sounds like you may be a candidate to pop in one of those front LSD units from UPP.

I'd be really interested to see the lap times if you do this and compare with the data you already have.

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

I have a bunch of laps on Harry's LapTimer, but my OBD2 to USB cable (OBDLink SX) supported by Harry's don't grag Tesla codes. And
scan my tesla does not support the SX, only the MX (Bluetooth), so no data.

What is LSD units Sam1?

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

Oh, got it, limited slip differential units! hmm, a little pricy for me. I'll start with a set of racing tires I think.. or will the tires really help?

 

[Sam1]

Oh, got it, limited slip differential units! hmm, a little pricy for me. I'll start with a set of racing tires I think.. or will the tires really help?

yeah they cost a bit, no clue on installation costs either with these cars.

There’s a few guys on here that do road course racing regularly that could probably answer your tire question.

 

[Dolemite]

Oh, got it, limited slip differential units! hmm, a little pricy for me. I'll start with a set of racing tires I think.. or will the tires really help?

You should first square your setup. You have way too much rubber in the rear vs front. Move to 265/35s all around and see how it goes.

 

[mattack4000]

Forget about mods, it’s going to be hard to overcome those tires

 

[XLR82XS]

Interesting you had no issues with the OE rotors. How do you like the pads? They hold up well?

 

[MasterC17]

A lot of the weak points in the Model 3 are only exploited when you start going faster. It we look at a scale of 1-10 with a 1 being a Novice and a 10 being an Amateur Racer, I imagine most people tracking the Model 3 probably fall somewhere in the 4-6 range, which would put you in an Intermediate group, where you won't see some of the issues we talk about.

The biggest limit with Pierre's setup is definitely going to be the tires. Hankook evo2's are a nice summer tire, but not a track tire. The staggered setup is going to induce considerable understeer as well. For reference, the last time I went to NCCAR over a year ago I did a 1:37.5 and there is a lot of time I left on the table with corded tires installed. I shaved off almost 4 seconds from my lap time at VIR just moving to better tires. FWIW the absolute best bang for your buck track tires right now are the Federal RS-PRO's (IMO).

Stock rotors with upgraded pads will probably be plenty if you're running 200TW+ tires running in an Intermediate group. Interesting, but not surprising the car didn't pull power. It's very much dependent again on how hard you are pushing the car. I can't get more than 8 minutes out of the car now without losing power, which I find very frustrating. However, if I backed off a bit it would probably be fine for a 15 or 20 minute session.

A limited slip in this car really only makes sense if it's a pure track car and you have money to burn. There's a ton of labor involved with changing the diff out, and you will lose your 8-year warranty. That's not worth it for me. Additionally, moving to stickier tires will provide a similar effect to an LSD (more mechanical grip). I really don't see the diff limiting the car much, or at all once the tires are warmed up.

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

How do you like the pads? They hold up well?

A lot of braking power and I did not use it a lot, only before the hairpin did I have to brake hard, most of the time regen braking was good enough and seemed to get things go smooter, that's probably why I can get better times if. Wait and break harder.
The funny thing is that the pads were real quiet from the install time until the morning after the races. Now they are noisy and sound like 2 60 sandpapers rubing against each other.

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

Here's my weekend playlist, some of the laps... All Sunday, all in some degree of track wetness except one:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU6N0v6f8UELWejgx8HMJHaz_xxSwSsMy

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

Can't wait 'till next "spring" to track again and hopefuly meet some other M3 guys around and learn. I'm shopping for

Federal RS-PRO

as of right now...

 

[subieworx]

Glad you had a good time.

Wish I would have been able to charge at the track when I was at Mid Ohio. Would have made it much easier to deal with throughout the day.

I agree with the square setup. 275's fit easily front and rear.

 

[Mash]

A lot of braking power and I did not use it a lot, only before the hairpin did I have to brake hard, most of the time regen braking was good enough and seemed to get things go smooter, that's probably why I can get better times if. Wait and break harder.
The funny thing is that the pads were real quiet from the install time until the morning after the races. Now they are noisy and sound like 2 60 sandpapers rubing against each other.

If regen is good enough on a track - you're losing tons of time. Unless going smooth is the only thing in your track goals.

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

regen is good enough on a track - you're losing tons of time. Unless going smooth is the only thing in your track goals.

If you look at the track there's really only 3 corners where you need to really brake and only one that would justify race pads. Regen + a little braking is sufficient in the other ones. That's what I meant, I was trying to describe the carbotech pads behaviors where they really were useful... on that track.

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

FWIW the absolute best bang for your buck track tires right now are the Federal RS-PRO's (IMO).

Would 595 rs-pro 255/35ZR19 96Y XL wide enough ? My limiting factor being 8.5" rims on front wheels.

Or 255 fronts and 275 rears (9.5" wide rims in the rear).

 

[Mash]

If you look at the track there's really only 3 corners where you need to really brake and only one that would justify race pads. Regen + a little braking is sufficient in the other ones. That's what I meant, I was trying to describe the carbotech pads behaviors where they really were useful... on that track.

I saw your videos and disagree - time was lost. But, again, if time is not important - why not.

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

I saw your videos and disagree - time was lost.

Cool, that means I have to practice and learn more. I'm still a novice at this, not an artist

 

[MasterC17]

Would 595 rs-pro 255/35ZR19 96Y XL wide enough ? My limiting factor being 8.5" rims on front wheels.

Or 255 fronts and 275 rears (9.5" wide rims in the rear).

I don't love the idea of putting 255's all around on different rim sizes, but I suppose it would work. Whilst incredibly annoying, buying a square set of wheels or swapping the 8.5's out for 9.5's is really the best option.

 

[PierrotM3LRP]

9.5's is really the best option

So 275 all around would work? On 9.5 offset 35mm rims?