Tracking Model S 85D Delivery Thread

[cycochris]

I agree with you!

 

[njaard]

So now, a week before my scheduled delivery date, my Tesla Model S is in transit from the factory, even though I'm collecting it from the factory. I'm increasingly beginning to believe that the MyTesla dashboard is totally meaningless.

 

[keumgang]

mmm, that is very disappointing I agree. No idea why that is happening....I first though it was all fair play, but doesn't look like it....probably an understanding of the "why" would help...

 

[bonaire]

And these are exactly the cars and deliveries that make us feel pi... off here on the other side of the pond. Ordering about 2 months later, getting it 2 earlier, while we even pay more as the exchange rates went good for Tesla.

2nd class customers, rant!

Do you have a better way to handle it? Would it make more sense to build and ship cars out in the order that the buyers confirmed in? And possibly ship customer cars out before demos and loaners?

 

[cycochris]

And possibly ship customer cars out before demos and loaners?

I think we are just far from that...
I ordered my car in november, it should have been delivered in late april and since a couple of days, it has been put off in June... according to MyTesla dashboard.
Just disappointing but I'll deal with it!

 

[Cyclone]

Honestly, even though it does not really affect me, I prefer the way earlier reports about customers in Norway had it. Tesla built those first and put them on a ship, then switched to US production. That way, those are out of the way and in transit while they focus on North America. The above poster in France is disheartening. I know they are trying to get their numbers up for 1Q 2015, but there is no reason they couldn't build some EU cars in April and put them on the boat for May or June delivery. That said, I don't know shipping transit times and availability, so maybe the delay for the 1Q push moved these cars out past an available shipping schedule for April! Still, I feel for those who have to go so long from confirmation to delivery.

 

[breser]

mmm, that is very disappointing I agree. No idea why that is happening....I first though it was all fair play, but doesn't look like it....probably an understanding of the "why" would help...

Tesla is production constrained, not demand constrained. They do not build cars in the order that the orders are received. There are a number of reasons to do this.

• Limiting inventory of finished goods across quarter ends when Tesla reports production and sales numbers. Cars are not counted as sold until they are delivered, so a car that is built and still in transportation counts as unsold inventory, even if the car is a custom order destined for a particular customer.
• Availability of transportation. For instance if all available transportation to a given region is filled then there is no point in building more cars for that region so they can sit around. This is probably most visible with cars going outside of North America where they are shipped on ships.
• Availability of parts. Various configurations may not have parts available. Obviously Tesla is going to keep the factory going. Ultimately, this is better for everyone since idling the factory just to preserve a first in first out sequence would delay everyone.

I agree that this isn't entirely fair. I'd like to see Tesla try to balance their orders out so that they aren't so heavy to particular regions. It puts pressure on the delivery personnel and ultimately hurts customer service. But I'm sure Tesla realizes this and is doing it because ultimately there are more reasons than just how it makes their numbers. I'd bet that the transportation issue is the biggest issue since Tesla is still relatively small.

To the European owners grousing here. North American deliveries almost always happen in the last month of a quarter. This means that NA owners typically see very few deliveries in 2 out of the 3 months of a quarter. Please remember that NA owners taking delivery are not in control of this process any more than you are. In the interest of community I'd suggest taking care not to appear that you're directing your complaints at the NA owners.

 

[jgs]

North American deliveries almost always happen in the last month of a quarter. This means that NA owners typically see very few deliveries in 2 out of the 3 months of a quarter.

I can attest to this. My order went in mid-October and I didn't take delivery until a few days ago, coinciding with... the end of the quarter! And when it transpired my travel schedule would preclude me taking delivery in the final ten days of March, my DS appeared highly motivated to expedite the delivery rather than slipping it to April as I'd offered. So, five months from putting my deposit down to receiving my car. I felt a brief frisson of envy for the person reporting two months somewhere up-thread, but as you say, you get what you get when you get it. And when I got it, I was happy.

 

[Griffinlair]

Delivery scheduled for Friday as my wife is out of town until late Thursday night. She wants to be there for the "reveal" so had to delay delivery 2 days. It is at the SC and could be ready tomorrow if I wished. So now the wait is entirely self imposed, and I'm imagining this will be the longest part of the wait.

 

[cycochris]

Thanks for your explanations
Why would I direct my complaints at the NA owners? I am more than happy for you and hope you enjoy your 85d. I sincerely like reading your posts related to your first impressions. By the way, the waiting period has its good sides as well. I feel like a kid before Christmas but I also hope it's not gonna last too long...

To the European owners grousing here. North American deliveries almost always happen in the last month of a quarter. This means that NA owners typically see very few deliveries in 2 out of the 3 months of a quarter. Please remember that NA owners taking delivery are not in control of this process any more than you are. In the interest of community I'd suggest taking care not to appear that you're directing your complaints at the NA owners.

 

[46&2]

As I said previously in other treads I know the US customers are not in any way responsible for this. I am glad for them to get their cars, enjoy it! Nobody to blame.

I also know the cars are built according to parts, similarities, logistics, transport - again, OK.


What I think is NOT ok is to put an European car out off the line, produce an American one with the same specs in its place and not tell the European guy before that his delivery will never happen then when he was told it would. As said, we got told there were problems with parts sourcing and got to wait longe for the non-P cars. Only to see they build the same car for somebody else who has not ordered in October, but in Jan or Feb.

Tell me before! Why is "April" even an option to chose from? When Tesla itself knows they'll throw mine off the line when March is about to end?

Still, we will never understand that quarter stupidity anyway. Why is it so important to American shareholders to get a car sold in a quarter in a production limited company anyway? That only means the same car won't be delivered the next month.

And what's most annoying is Elon bubbling about it wasn't so only to repeat that crap every three months...



(I'm fully happy to get the best car in the world, I love it you US guys can drive yours earlier, I am by no means the frustrated dumbass I appear to be here. But it is something the marketing and communication board of such a company has to get sorted out because it simply can be considered lying. Not nice. Not pro, amateur style. Disappointing...)

 

[kaneda]

I think we are just far from that...
I ordered my car in november, it should have been delivered in late april and since a couple of days, it has been put off in June... according to MyTesla dashboard.
Just disappointing but I'll deal with it!

Confirmed my S85D order (France) early Feb. initial delivery date was late June, then moved late May and since last week it shows June.

my DS says it's scheduled to be out of production end April.

Are they doing a big shipment to Europe in May, so that's why next European deliveries are planned for June ?

 

[breser]

What I think is NOT ok is to put an European car out off the line, produce an American one with the same specs in its place and not tell the European guy before that his delivery will never happen then when he was told it would. As said, we got told there were problems with parts sourcing and got to wait longe for the non-P cars. Only to see they build the same car for somebody else who has not ordered in October, but in Jan or Feb.

Your presumption is that an 85D destined for Europe is entirely fungible with a 85D destined for North America. But that's not necessarily the case. An easy example to look at with the 85D is the real tail lights and charge ports. European cars get amber turn signals as opposed to also using the brake lights for the turn signals. The charge ports are different and integrated into the tail light assembly. The D vehicles now have a self closing charge port. P85D owners in Europe are receiving their car without this feature with a promise to retrofit it. But this isn't the only difference. European cars have a different air bag setup (you get fewer). I'm sure there are many other differences that I haven't thought of. So the assumption that if they're building North American cars they could just use the same parts and build your car isn't entirely true.

Tell me before! Why is "April" even an option to chose from? When Tesla itself knows they'll throw mine off the line when March is about to end?

Did it occur to you that maybe they're not lying to you when they say there are part problems? There was an issue with the ports on the west coast of the US. It's entirely possible that the delays have impacted their ability to deliver cars. Don't forget that the American 85Ds were delayed. The original delivery dates were in February. Only a small number actually made it for February delivery, many got pushed into March (mostly late March at that).

Still, we will never understand that quarter stupidity anyway. Why is it so important to American shareholders to get a car sold in a quarter in a production limited company anyway? That only means the same car won't be delivered the next month.

And what's most annoying is Elon bubbling about it wasn't so only to repeat that crap every three months...

We all know that Tesla does care about the stock price no matter what Elon suggests. They care for a number of reasons. Their employees receive stock options as part of their compensation and the stock pricing falling hurts their ability to hire. The share price is a proxy for the health of the company and if it's doing poorly their ability to borrow will be hurt. Their access to suppliers might be hurt because a new supplier might not want to work with Tesla if they think they're about to fail. The stock price is ultimately important even if Elon tries to downplay the importance.

It's important to remember the share price is manipulated not just by people who believe in Tesla but also people who are sharply critical of Tesla. These people compare Tesla to other automotive companies that report their sales based on delivery to a dealer not a customer. They compare them to automotive companies that have factories near their major markets. They look at the finished good numbers and conclude that demand is down. None of this is a fair comparison but it happens and for the reasons I mentioned above Tesla cares about it.

(I'm fully happy to get the best car in the world, I love it you US guys can drive yours earlier, I am by no means the frustrated dumbass I appear to be here. But it is something the marketing and communication board of such a company has to get sorted out because it simply can be considered lying. Not nice. Not pro, amateur style. Disappointing...)

I entirely agree that Tesla should do better in this respect. But the situation isn't quite as simple as it seems. There may be other factors than just end of quarter timing holding up your car.

 

[ethanr75]

IN addition to what breser said, there were quite a few of us that got moved around. My original confirmation mail says my production window was 2/9-2/23. I had to pull teeth to figure out what was going on when i saw no movement. I still have a purchase agreement in my online docs that says I should have had my car on 2/23 yet I am taking delivery on 3/26. My wait has been 5 months and I drive by the factory every day on my commute. I have been watching cars get delivered all around the world that were ordered after mine yet I have to wait because of end of quarter hi-jinks. I am not sure if it is an american market thing only but nearly every major vendor I deal with makes an end of quarter crunch to book, deliver and bill product.

 

[breser]

Can people who have had their VINs reassigned to remove the P value in Digit 12 to 0 please answer the following question:

What value do you have in digit 8? (I'd really appreciate full VINs but understand some people are sensitive to that)

I ask because it has been pointed out that the Ocean Blue P85D that has been spotted with a 4 as the value for that position. I suspect this means that the reason for the reassignment of VINs was to adjust the motor field to also allow a distinction between 85D and P85Ds in the VIN (which until now couldn't be done).

 

[FlyingJat]

Can people who have had their VINs reassigned to remove the P value in Digit 12 to 0 please answer the following question:

What value do you have in digit 8? (I'd really appreciate full VINs but understand some people are sensitive to that)

I ask because it has been pointed out that the Ocean Blue P85D that has been spotted with a 4 as the value for that position. I suspect this means that the reason for the reassignment of VINs was to adjust the motor field to also allow a distinction between 85D and P85Ds in the VIN (which until now couldn't be done).

Changed from 745-- something to 80813 - Red.

 

[breser]

Changed from 745-- something to 80813 - Red.

That doesn't help with what I'm trying to figure out. I want to know what the 8th digit is (this digit since 2014 model year described if you had single or dual motors). I want to know this because it appears they've added new values to this field that makes it clear if a vehicle is a P85D or 85D (which used to be ambiguous from the VIN).

 

[Coiled]

Can people who have had their VINs reassigned to remove the P value in Digit 12 to 0 please answer the following question:

What value do you have in digit 8?

My 85D with VIN ending in 0801xx has a 2 in the eighth position. But that's not a reassigned VIN, it was that way when I got it a couple weeks ago, right before they started reassigning VINs. Also I just got switched from May delivery to late April.

Hope this helps.

 

[breser]

Someone that had a reassigned VIN sent me their full VIN privately and it also still has a 2. Hmm. So much for the theory of why they reassigned VINs.

 

[46&2]

Thank you, breser, for taking the time to write up such a long, good reply. My rant was a bit unstructured, maybe - might be typical for "rants", when venting one's anger.

I did not manage to get the points most clear that were most important to me. Sorry for that! I'll try my best to explain better why I felt it was important to me to show these things. I told my DS about the feelings and communication issues, so the task is known to Tesla and it's up to them whether they decide to do anything, and how to deal with it.

As for the points spoken about:

Your presumption is that an 85D destined for Europe is entirely fungible with a 85D destined for North America. But that's not necessarily the case. An easy example to look at with the 85D is the real tail lights and charge ports. European cars get amber turn signals as opposed to also using the brake lights for the turn signals. The charge ports are different and integrated into the tail light assembly. The D vehicles now have a self closing charge port. P85D owners in Europe are receiving their car without this feature with a promise to retrofit it. But this isn't the only difference. European cars have a different air bag setup (you get fewer). I'm sure there are many other differences that I haven't thought of. So the assumption that if they're building North American cars they could just use the same parts and build your car isn't entirely true.

It is not the case I thought the cars were about the same, not at all. All things mentioned differ, plus charging equipment, of course. The car "taking over the place in the line" is not built with the exact same parts. What I meant: They'll have to change (logistically) the line setup/production. And that is a thing that happens at will, and definite, for a certain period of time, before going back.
So once they change to "U.S. cars now!" build mode, there's at least not an easy way to slip in other cars. This means it's not a personal issue about kicking out one single car, aka my car. But to go over to a full bunch of U.S. cars.
And again: this type of working is of course logic and fully valid. It makes sense. But it's also foreseeable! It won't happen 'by mistake' or once every few cars.

Point ONE:
Had they told us "February/March delivery and, if it doesn't make that time frame/window, it's June then", that would be much better.
In fact, we got quite a few people over here getting their car's VINs assigned in early January. But once the car didn't go into production in very early February, it was about clear it'll miss mid-April delivery. Still myTesla kept jumping from March to April, back to End of March, and things like that - which is about pointless. Why let people see a pointless prediction tool?
The DS who should know the car has not entered production yet should tell his customers. And not: "it might be April", which is not realistic. But: "Think about End of May and be happy if earlier".

Conclusion: communication 'problem', or at least a thing that can quite easily be improved.

Point TWO:
The DS telling people on the phone that there are a few problems with part sourcing - OK, that can happen, again no problem with that from a logistical point of view. It's not Tesla's fault. But, same as above: that was clear much earlier. Same conclusion: Tell me "End of March earliest, very unlikely, and if not then, End of May" back in October, when we ordered. Once January was over and no car on the line, inform people: "Ok, it's End of May now, as you've been warned." Why speak of the months in between at all?
(Funny side note: my DS told me there were problems as no Leather was delivered to the factory. While seeing my car online which has got the fabric seats anyway ).

Did it occur to you that maybe they're not lying to you when they say there are part problems? There was an issue with the ports on the west coast of the US. It's entirely possible that the delays have impacted their ability to deliver cars. Don't forget that the American 85Ds were delayed. The original delivery dates were in February. Only a small number actually made it for February delivery, many got pushed into March (mostly late March at that).

Fully aware of that, yes. As said several times, for me it's not a "U.S. cars vs. European cars" thing. Not at all. ALL OF THESE got the delays. An American destination car may be pushed around a few weeks - they never guaranteed anything, of course. OK with that. The European car will be pushed into the next quarter and delayed by 2 months maybe - no Problem with that, OK. The online-Tool shows delays of 2 weeks - why do that?

Same point/conclusion as above. Once they knew they run into delays, the communication wasn't quite optimal. Simple as that.

We all know that Tesla does care about the stock price no matter what Elon suggests. They care for a number of reasons. Their employees receive stock options as part of their compensation and the stock pricing falling hurts their ability to hire. The share price is a proxy for the health of the company and if it's doing poorly their ability to borrow will be hurt. Their access to suppliers might be hurt because a new supplier might not want to work with Tesla if they think they're about to fail. The stock price is ultimately important even if Elon tries to downplay the importance.

It's important to remember the share price is manipulated not just by people who believe in Tesla but also people who are sharply critical of Tesla. These people compare Tesla to other automotive companies that report their sales based on delivery to a dealer not a customer. They compare them to automotive companies that have factories near their major markets. They look at the finished good numbers and conclude that demand is down. None of this is a fair comparison but it happens and for the reasons I mentioned above Tesla cares about it.

Thank you for the extended explanation! Under these aspects, it makes sense short term to push up quarter sales - while on the longer term view, it just doesn't matter. It's more of a volatility issue when looking at the quarters' car outputs. I can see the pressure, but in my personal opinion, it's a bit of a short view. Not from Tesla, but from the stock market. I realize one's go to play their game for a certain amount - OK. Said so before. But then, communicate accordingly, please.

I entirely agree that Tesla should do better in this respect. But the situation isn't quite as simple as it seems. There may be other factors than just end of quarter timing holding up your car.

Again, I think I can understand the complexity of the problem. The "rant" as such is an exaggerated write-up. It makes feelings visible. Not ratio.

I hope I could make clear two major points now:

1. It is not about my car that gets held up. It's every single car still on line from the German speaking tesla driver and friends forum, were we have an excel-sheet of dates also. At one blast, about every car got delayed by at least one and a half month. And at that point, communication was insufficient. Not consistent among all the different Tesla employees, delayed as such, and not organized. We're all not that dumb - once the cars were not in production, we knew "April" was not going to happen. And we knew that in February, while Tesla acts as if they found mid March...

2. In fact, I want to share the feelings of the European Tesla customers with you guys over the pond, and with Tesla of course. See it as a proposal of how things could be handled a little bit better, when looking at communication. Not pretending too much might be better, sometimes. As you said, breser, there are enough people around that are very critical with Tesla - and delayed deliveries serve them. Good communication skills are vital for an enterprise that big as Tesla has grown.

As mentioned, I spoke to Tesla about that - of course not ranting on the phone, but in a constructive, always nice manner. They appreciated the feedback, and we always had a good time. Always! No offence taken, by anybody there. Sorry if it came over like that, here, in written, non personal form.

Sorry again if I appeared to be a discontent, moaning dumb-ass suffering from the "ranting old fart syndrome" (only).