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Tracking P85D delivery thread

AlMc

'When the music is on...you gotta dance' (Go Elon)
Apr 23, 2013
7,357
15,647
Delaware
Well, I don't know how Tesla is shipping these, but, my DS said my car was loaded on a transport in the afternoon of the 16th, and he sent me a picture of it sitting in the lot at Devon PA this evening, roughly 72 hours after he said it was loaded. That's about 2900 miles in 3 days, which is pretty impressive. Only way I could see that happening is with a double driver truck.

I called Elon and Jerome and said I got $20 riding on this...Two drivers for wk057s car.....as mine sits in the Fremont parking lot:wink:
 
You are 100% correct and the IRS has a legitimate case against you if you do not have the vehicle 'in service'. The question is whether you are willing to take the chance. Do you have a specific case where the IRS has gone to court over a situation similar to what TM is suggesting? I am not trying to be confrontational just saying there is a bit of a gray area here. Personally, if I literally drive my car for the first time Jan 3rd after taking actual delivery that day but I have the car paid for, the Cali title in my name and the car 'in transit' by Dec 31st I will take that chance. I would NOT take the chance if I did not meet that criteria.
I accept that I may risk an audit and have to explain my actions and I do not suggest anyone do as I do without accepting the possible consequence that you may be in deep s**t.


I found this this after searching for when an asset is considered placed in service

Placed In Service





DEFINITION OF 'PLACED IN SERVICE'

The point in time when an asset that can be depreciated is first placed in use. The date the asset is placed in service marks the beginning of the depreciation period. The date of purchase usually marks when an asset is placed in service, but not always.


INVESTOPEDIA EXPLAINS 'PLACED IN SERVICE'

Owners of depreciable assets should take note of the date that their depreciable assets are first placed in service, because they must record that date on their tax returns for depreciation calculations. The receipt for the good will effectively double as both proof of purchase and proof of date placed in service for the IRS in the event of an audit.







Placed In Service Definition | Investopedia
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,443
Ithaca, NY
Yes, per my posting in the Interior section, I sat in an about to be delivered P85D in Toronto with the VIN 62114. The car had Black Next Gen seats in the front and the newer (not Next Gen but big headrests) in the back.

I actually had responded to that, asking if you knew the person that was getting that P85D, or if it was just some random person's car they let you sit in. To be honest, that worried me a little, as someone about to take delivery of a new P85D. I kinda figured they just let you sit in that stranger's car, since you didn't say it was a friend of yours, and while I'm sure you were appropriately careful, I really wouldn't want strangers being allowed to sit in my car before I get it. I was surprised they let you do that.

Edit--I see now that you have recently answered in the other thread, that they only let you sit in one that has not gone through detailing yet. I guess that's a little better, but it still bothers me a little. Maybe I'm just too "Type-A."
 
I've already explained several times now how the title passing doesn't matter. That's an additional restriction not the only restriction. The scenario being described does not clear the "placed in service" limitation of the tax code.

The definition of placed in service means it's available for use. I can't fathom what tortured logic gets people to conclude that the car is available for use before you've received it. The IRS gives several examples on the link I've shared and looking at the examples I can't see how a car that's in transit qualifies.

I'm sure doing it this way is great for Tesla because of course this means the car is delivered and off their books. But I don't see how it helps with the owner take the tax credit in 2014. I doubt the Tesla employee understands this bit of the tax code and is just trying to be helpful, so don't take my point here to mean that Tesla is doing this maliciously. I think they're simply ill informed.

So I'll repeat my advice, before accepting this if you care about getting the credit in 2014 you should speak to your tax professional.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record, but everyone keeps ignoring what I'm saying.

I agree with you if one uses the cash method of chart of accounts.

However, I think if people are using the accrual method of accounting, it is consistent to equate placed in service with the time that no other party can claim use of the asset. I've had this come up with scientific equipment in 6 week shipping container transit. Once the purchase order or legal agreement has been executed by both parties and the final step is shipping, it is consistent to claim ownership for insurance, legal rights, and also from counterparty claims.

I went through all pertinent IRS regulations, and the IRS has a placed in service model that both means available, but also means "fully assembled for its intended usage"

Check out this specific explanation from their publication:

Placed in Service




Property is placed in service when it is ready and available for a specific use, whether in a business activity, an income-producing activity, a tax-exempt activity, or a personal activity. Even if you are not using the property, it is in service when it is ready and available for its specific use.
Example.
You bought a planter for use in your farm business. The planter was delivered in December 2013 after harvest was over. You begin to depreciate the planter for 2013 because it was ready and available for its specific use in 2013, even though it will not be used until the spring of 2014.
If your planter comes unassembled in December 2013 and is put together in February 2014, it is not placed in service until 2014. You begin to depreciate it in 2014.

If your planter was delivered and assembled in February 2014 but not used until April 2014, it is placed in service in February 2014, because this is when the planter was ready for its specified use. You begin to depreciate it in 2014.

So there are two components: ownership of an asset, and ability of the asset to be used for its intended purpose. I think this is a winnable point.

Publication 225 (2014), Farmer's Tax Guide
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,443
Ithaca, NY
Noticed that nobody has had a P85D delivered with Matte Obeche trim... for what it's worth.

Would love to see some interior photos of delivered cars with Grey Next Gen Seats (even just front) if anyone has received them?

I have a P85D coming with Matte Obeche trim, and eventually Grey Next Gen seats. If the car checks out OK tomorrow in Mt. Kisco I should receive it by truck on Sunday, but it is unlikely to have the Next Gen seats.
 

bollar

Disgruntled Member
May 1, 2013
2,667
881
Southlake, TX
I agree with you if one uses the cash method of chart of accounts.

However, I think if people are using the accrual method of accounting, it is consistent to equate placed in service with the time that no other party can claim use of the asset. I've had this come up with scientific equipment in 6 week shipping container transit. Once the purchase order or legal agreement has been executed by both parties and the final step is shipping, it is consistent to claim ownership for insurance, legal rights, and also from counterparty claims.

I went through all pertinent IRS regulations, and the IRS has a placed in service model that both means available, but also means "fully assembled for its intended usage"

Check out this specific explanation from their publication:



So there are two components: ownership of an asset, and ability of the asset to be used for its intended purpose. I think this is a winnable point.

Publication 225 (2014), Farmer's Tax Guide

I don't think you'll be challenged by the IRS, but I also don't think the point is winnable. Even in the example you cite, the farm equipment needs to be ready and available for use. I don't see how that's possible until it's delivered and in your possession.
 
Update from my DS: after a full three days in production, my car is now 'in paint'. Which means that it could be several more days before it gets through the general assembly line, I guess, and more days in burn-in and inspection. I'd say a 12/29 delivery (my last day in Denver this year) is in jeopardy, but there's nothing to do but wait and see.
This happened to me too. Now I am stuck in GA. 5 days since I went into production. I think they may be waiting for inbound parts.
 

breser

AutoPilot Nostradamus
Aug 28, 2014
2,314
94
North Bend, WA
You are 100% correct and the IRS has a legitimate case against you if you do not have the vehicle 'in service'. The question is whether you are willing to take the chance. Do you have a specific case where the IRS has gone to court over a situation similar to what TM is suggesting? I am not trying to be confrontational just saying there is a bit of a gray area here. Personally, if I literally drive my car for the first time Jan 3rd after taking actual delivery that day but I have the car paid for, the Cali title in my name and the car 'in transit' by Dec 31st I will take that chance. I would NOT take the chance if I did not meet that criteria.
I accept that I may risk an audit and have to explain my actions and I do not suggest anyone do as I do without accepting the possible consequence that you may be in deep s**t.

I'm not aware of a case with respect to the electric vehicle credit but I am now aware of situations like this coming up with depreciation. For example this one:
Tax Court addresses “placed in serviceâ€￾ date
The $11 million placed-in-service date

I just want people to have thought about this and understand the risks. If they do so and still want to move forward that's their business.
 
Well after 27 days in production I'm finally out! Production complete today!!

Lets see how long it takes to get here... My DS says there is a LARGE contingent of cars coming right after the 25th/26th... so I might actually squeeze in before the new year. To be honest, I'm just glad there is some kind of confirmation that its been completed.
 

berryja

Member
Apr 1, 2014
91
303
Florida
I finished production on the 18th, but I have absolutely no additional information. Two emails to DS have gone unanswered. No new documents, request for payment or anything. I've been assuming it's on the truck with others, but that may be wishful thinking. I believe RichG is in our same group, but apparently still in production....

With email not working, I'll start calling them tomorrow. Any of you getting updates from Georgia (DS) or Tampa (SC) ?

I spoke in the past with my DS from GA supporting Tampa but he has not returned my emails for the past few days. Im paid up, Ill call tomorrow and see if I can get an update.
 
Spoke with my DS today. Car is loaded on a train headed to Chicago to arrive on 12/24, and I have scheduled pick up for 12/30. Paperwork for signing came this evening an hour ago.

I have been thinking about the heated steering wheel and comments that if a car ships without a heating steering wheel, there is no way to retrofit because it's a different wiring harness. Considering that Tesla has been making efforts to streamline options that can be chosen in order to reduce the number of variables in the production line, wouldn't it seem that they would be using one common wiring harness capable of "plug and pay" with a heated steering wheel if installed?
 

EarlyAdopter

Active Member
Jun 24, 2012
2,832
2,095
Redmond, WA
I don't think you'll be challenged by the IRS, but I also don't think the point is winnable. Even in the example you cite, the farm equipment needs to be ready and available for use. I don't see how that's possible until it's delivered and in your possession.

It is ready and available for your use - you or your agent. In this case, the shipping company is acting as your agent.
 

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