Traction Control/Swaying under Firmware v4.2 ?

[Jcmason]

maybe i'm imagining, but i actually think i sense less of this in 4.2. in quick lane changes previously i would feel what you both are describing acutely, and not like it, doesn't feel 'on rails', feels floaty, more like a cadi. however in the days since 4.2, with no change to my driving habits, i don't think i'm feeling it quite as much. ymmv.

@Aaron, @dtich, @Hank42 - thanks for chiming in with your experiences. It's reassuring to hear that others have felt this too. I was starting to think it was just me, and maybe I wasn't handling the power well, etc. (having said that, my previous car was a Porsche 911 C4, so it's not like I'm moving up from a Yugo or something). Anyway, I also didn't like the floaty feel. I've only had the car for a few days, so haven't had enough driving time to be able to compare with the 4.1 release. Other than that, I'm totally in awe of this car, and love the fact that it continues to improve with each new release.

 

[dennis]

maybe i'm imagining, but i actually think i sense less of this in 4.2. in quick lane changes previously i would feel what you both are describing acutely, and not like it, doesn't feel 'on rails', feels floaty, more like a cadi. however in the days since 4.2, with no change to my driving habits, i don't think i'm feeling it quite as much. ymmv.

edit: (alright, maybe not acutely, or floaty exactly.. but i feel it. at any rate, the car drives like a dream. but if we're discussing the finer points, let's discuss the finer points... )

An acquaintence of mine who is knowledgeable about chassis engineering explained to me that the Model S has a lot of lateral stiffness but is less stiff/more compliant longitudinally. If I understood him correctly, the lateral stiffness results in little body roll when cornering, while the longitudinal compliance helps the car to ride more comfortably on uneven pavement.

The downside of this that I noticed when cornering is that because it takes longer for the force to transfer front to back than it does side to side, the car feels like it is understeering. This is the result of the rear of the car is taking a split second longer to rotate and "catch up" with the front of the car.

I wonder if the same factors are at play here??

 

[Lloyd]

IMO it is impossible to judge any of this until the stability control is able to be turned off! Stab control overrides any ability to feel the car as it handles.

- - - Updated - - -

I love this car, but it is not a 'drivers car' in it current form. I beleive that Tesla will allow performance mods which will provide the spirit needed for more track minded drivers.

 

[AnOutsider]

I love this car, but it is not a 'drivers car' in it current form. I beleive that Tesla will allow performance mods which will provide the spirit needed for more track minded drivers.

I'd love for Doug to read this "I told you so"

 

[aviators99]

My opinion is that there are no driving changes from 4.1 to 4.2. I could be wrong. But if I'm right, it's funny how people are getting a "placebo effect" based on what other people are saying. I've read people agreeing with the same poster that that the regen is both stronger *and* weaker in this thread! I've got close to 5,500 miles of experience, and I'm definitely not noticing any driving differences between 4.1 and 4.2.

 

[efusco]

My opinion is that there are no driving changes from 4.1 to 4.2. I could be wrong. But if I'm right, it's funny how people are getting a "placebo effect" based on what other people are saying. I've read people agreeing with the same poster that that the regen is both stronger *and* weaker in this thread! I've got close to 5,500 miles of experience, and I'm definitely not noticing any driving differences between 4.1 and 4.2.

I'm with you, didn't notice a thing.

 

[Lloyd]

I'd love for Doug to read this "I told you so"

That said, it should come with a disclaimer that the inherent safety mechanisims built into the car are being disabled, and care must be taken in driving in this mode.

 

[goyogi]

I still have the original software version and I noticed the wagging when flooring it on declining freeway on-ramps. Once I even chirped my tires when going 75 and flooring it.

 

[Jcmason]

My opinion is that there are no driving changes from 4.1 to 4.2. I could be wrong. But if I'm right, it's funny how people are getting a "placebo effect" based on what other people are saying. I've read people agreeing with the same poster that that the regen is both stronger *and* weaker in this thread! I've got close to 5,500 miles of experience, and I'm definitely not noticing any driving differences between 4.1 and 4.2.

My point wasn't really that there's a difference between 4.1 and 4.2 as far as the driving experience is concerned. As I said, I don't have enough experience of 4.1 to be able to judge. While I may have inadvertently contributed to the perception of differences between versions by posting here in the 4.2 thread, I was really just sharing my experience of the car feeling like the front was swaying from side to side as I accelerated to overtake at highway speeds. Since several others seem to have had a similar experience, I'd tend to conclude that it's at least worth discussing and a) getting validation from a broader sample or b) confirming that I'm either imagining things or just a lousy driver (all combinations quite possible). Although there clearly is a potential for a placebo effect with something as subjective as this, in my case I actually commented on it to my wife as it happened, and hadn't read the forum that day, so wasn't exposed to any external influence. One thing that would help minimize this kind of subjective discussion about changes from one version to the next would be for Tesla to provide a more detailed description of what's changed.

 

[aviators99]

My point wasn't really that there's a difference between 4.1 and 4.2 as far as the driving experience is concerned. As I said, I don't have enough experience of 4.1 to be able to judge. While I may have inadvertently contributed to the perception of differences between versions by posting here in the 4.2 thread, I was really just sharing my experience of the car feeling like the front was swaying from side to side as I accelerated to overtake at highway speeds. Since several others seem to have had a similar experience, I'd tend to conclude that it's at least worth discussing and a) getting validation from a broader sample or b) confirming that I'm either imagining things or just a lousy driver (all combinations quite possible). Although there clearly is a potential for a placebo effect with something as subjective as this, in my case I actually commented on it to my wife as it happened, and hadn't read the forum that day, so wasn't exposed to any external influence. One thing that would help minimize this kind of subjective discussion about changes from one version to the next would be for Tesla to provide a more detailed description of what's changed.

I was more talking about regen and torque. Not your lateral movement. I didn't take your comment as a 4.2 vs 4.1 post.

 

[William3]

driving at 55mph, I needed to accelerate past a car in the middle lane before another car I could see coming up behind me in the left lane, so I floored it. My Model S quickly accelerated up to around 75mph, but I also felt it start to sway left and right, as though it was about to take off. I backed off the accelerator and moved back into the middle lane. No damage done, but it felt a little too close to being out of control to be entirely comfortable. Has anyone else experienced this and/or have an explanation for what happened?

My Model S does this all the time. It feels very unsafe. I've owned/driven many RWD cars that are faster than the Model S, so I'm not buying any of this nonsense about it being a normal characteristic of a powerful RWD car. I've had a few friends comment on it as well when they've driven my car. I hope Tesla figures out a fix for this. My guess is that it is related to the crappy air suspension.

 

[brianman]

My Model S does this all the time. It feels very unsafe. I've owned/driven many RWD cars that are faster than the Model S, so I'm not buying any of this nonsense about it being a normal characteristic of a powerful RWD car. I've had a few friends comment on it as well when they've driven my car. I hope Tesla figures out a fix for this. My guess is that it is related to the crappy air suspension.

I've noticed a pattern that every feature you dislike is "crappy". You might as well just omit the adjective because it's really becoming a given with your posts.

Just an opinion.

 

[jcstp]

Those with TC problems, do they use 19" or 21"?

19" have less traction and the tires can compress more (bigger sidewalls)
And wintertires are mushier than summertires

 

[roblab]

My Model S does this all the time. It feels very unsafe. I've owned/driven many RWD cars that are faster than the Model S, so I'm not buying any of this nonsense about it being a normal characteristic of a powerful RWD car. I've had a few friends comment on it as well when they've driven my car. I hope Tesla figures out a fix for this. My guess is that it is related to the crappy air suspension.

As with Jcmason, I like to pass cars that are doing way under the 55 mph limit (wine country tourists here). I have noticed that when I abruptly swerve out to pass, yes, the car drives less safely. I have found that keeping it in control, ie. gently pulling out while accelerating, I pass easily with no "crappy" handling at all. Anyone can make the car, or any car swerve unsafely by twitching the steering wheel. I have set my steering on "comfort", which makes my movements less abrupt, and being aware of what is going on, I don't drive that way. I passed a group of cars last week doing 110 mph while they were busy looking for the next winery, and I assure you, there was no drama in the action.

 

[Jcmason]

As with Jcmason, I like to pass cars that are doing way under the 55 mph limit (wine country tourists here). I have noticed that when I abruptly swerve out to pass, yes, the car drives less safely. I have found that keeping it in control, ie. gently pulling out while accelerating, I pass easily with no "crappy" handling at all. Anyone can make the car, or any car swerve unsafely by twitching the steering wheel. I have set my steering on "comfort", which makes my movements less abrupt, and being aware of what is going on, I don't drive that way. I passed a group of cars last week doing 110 mph while they were busy looking for the next winery, and I assure you, there was no drama in the action.

@roblab I certainly take your point that it's better to anticipate and drive more smoothly. However, I wasn't moving the steering wheel at all (to my knowledge) when it started to sway. It felt like it was more a function of the rapid acceleration making the front end lift and drift slightly. It's hard to describe, but several people seem to have experienced it. My main point was just to share this experience so others are aware of it and maybe know what to expect if they're in this situation. No big deal really, I absolutely love this car, and am still relearning to drive to take advantage of it's amazing capabilities.

 

[ChadS]

My opinion is that there are no driving changes from 4.1 to 4.2. I could be wrong. But if I'm right, it's funny how people are getting a "placebo effect" based on what other people are saying. I've read people agreeing with the same poster that that the regen is both stronger *and* weaker in this thread! I've got close to 5,500 miles of experience, and I'm definitely not noticing any driving differences between 4.1 and 4.2.

I am far more aware of the placebo effect than most (old hobby), and was very careful in my wording because of it. But similarly, you not noticing a change doesn't mean it is not there.

Although it could mean the change was in a different place. I skipped a few releases; I went from 1.15.14 to 4.2, so it's possible the changes, if any, were in some earlier transition that you never saw.

I was also the one that said "stronger and weaker" in a whimsical sense. I then went on to explain that it's just as strong or stronger; it just ramps up slower, so it might feel weaker at first. While (as I noted before) I can't swear it's the case without driving both versions back to back in identical conditions, I think it's a perfectly reasonable perception, and something that Tesla could well have wanted to do.

 

[dave]

I've had the car for almost a week. Came with 4.1. I definitely DO notice the swaying during hard acceleration. It's actually quite unnerving and makes me hesitant to use the full potential of the car, which is a shame. It could also be that I'm nervous because the car is so new, but the swaying is most definitely there in 4.1.

I have 4.2 waiting to install, but I'm out of town with the car and am waiting until I get back home tomorrow to install.

 

[Jcmason]

I've had the car for almost a week. Came with 4.1. I definitely DO notice the swaying during hard acceleration. It's actually quite unnerving and makes me hesitant to use the full potential of the car, which is a shame. It could also be that I'm nervous because the car is so new, but the swaying is most definitely there in 4.1.

I have 4.2 waiting to install, but I'm out of town with the car and am waiting until I get back home tomorrow to install.

@dave Thanks for the reassurance that I'm not going crazy . I have the exact same feeling btw.

 

[nolngrgrsngslde]

@roblab I certainly take your point that it's better to anticipate and drive more smoothly. However, I wasn't moving the steering wheel at all (to my knowledge) when it started to sway. It felt like it was more a function of the rapid acceleration making the front end lift and drift slightly. It's hard to describe, but several people seem to have experienced it. My main point was just to share this experience so others are aware of it and maybe know what to expect if they're in this situation. No big deal really, I absolutely love this car, and am still relearning to drive to take advantage of it's amazing capabilities.

I noticed the instability the very first time i drove the car and accelerated hard, that was either 4.0 or 4.1, don't remember. The car felt like it was going to go sideways. I tried again later and felt it again.
A friend of mine test driving it, noticed it too. I told him it was his fault because i did not want him to poke fun at the car. This is also with either 4.0 or 4.1.

I have not tried it yet with 4.2.

I love my S, would not trade it for anything but, technical challenges are what they are. It is very likely that if TM was going to have any challenge, it will be in the algorithm used for stability/torque control. Look at the tolerances and alignment of the body panels, if they can't yet get those to be as tight as a Honda car body, why would you think that something as complex as Traction control would come out perfect so early. I only hope that software is the only thing needed to stabilize it.

Maybe they should exchange trade secrets with Daimler-Benz, I give you an app for battery control, you give me an app for traction control.

 

[kinddog]

i'm confused as to the definition of "swaying". is the car rocking from side to side? are the rear wheels slipping?